Videogames: The Sequeling

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, Poobah said:

I never understood the love for the red ending aside from the little "shep lives" easter egg. Picking it totally invalidates the whole of the Geth-Legion-Quarian and Edi plotlines about the development of sapient synthetic life and figuring out how it can live together alongside organic life. Nah just throw it all in the bin, kill um all.

I mean all the endings are a steaming pile of shit on a summer's day, and the little ghost boy can fuck all the way off so it kinda is what it is but yeah

Well, I think the red ending works perfect with Indoctrination Theory which, though confirmed to be not the story by the writers, remains head cannon for lots of fans. Red means Shepard overcame indoctrination, and now the real fight begins.

[Denvek]

4 hours ago, Poobah said:

I never understood the love for the red ending aside from the little "shep lives" easter egg. Picking it totally invalidates the whole of the Geth-Legion-Quarian and Edi plotlines about the development of sapient synthetic life and figuring out how it can live together alongside organic life. Nah just throw it all in the bin, kill um all.

I mean all the endings are a steaming pile of shit on a summer's day, and the little ghost boy can fuck all the way off so it kinda is what it is but yeah

The red ending really pissed me off. I went full Paragon and put in all the work to resolve the Geth-Quarian situation in a way that didn't include a genocide, and then the only ending that made any kind of sense regarding the Reapers went no, fuck you, none of what you did there matters.

[Fez]

5 hours ago, Poobah said:

I never understood the love for the red ending aside from the little "shep lives" easter egg. Picking it totally invalidates the whole of the Geth-Legion-Quarian and Edi plotlines about the development of sapient synthetic life and figuring out how it can live together alongside organic life. Nah just throw it all in the bin, kill um all.

I mean all the endings are a steaming pile of shit on a summer's day, and the little ghost boy can fuck all the way off so it kinda is what it is but yeah

The red ending is bad; the others are worse. The green ending invalidates the entire Genophage arc by making it pointless, and also is a violation of the body autonomy of literally everyone in the galaxy (and makes no sense). And the blue ending is literally the bad guy's plan.

It's not hard to see why many people latched on to the red ending, even setting aside that it's the one where Shepard lives.

[Caligula_K3]

16 hours ago, Fez said:

The series in general. Each game certainly has their own defined big bad, but they've all been pretty distinct from each other. At this point I guess the elf wolf god is maybe the big bad, but he had nothing to do with the first two games at all.

I kind of like that each Dragon Age game is somewhat self-contained, with plot elements stemming out from the last game and a new major villain (DA 2 leads to the Mage Templar War in Inquisition, Inquisition will delve more into Solas and the Dread Wolf). I also like having a new protagonist in each game. Each one feels like they're leaving a mark on the world, and it's fun to see the different consequences of each character's actions in the worldbuilding. I think this also takes some of the pressure off having a climax and conclusion that ties everything and all your choices together, which they clearly struggled with in Mass Effect 3.

I agree with people saying Mass Effect 1 is not that good of a game - though I haven't played the remastered edition yet. The gameplay was wonky, clunky, and just not fun. Wrex aside, the crew falls flat. It's got great worldbuilding, some cool roleplaying and an interesting plot, but it's one of my least favourite Bioware games. For me, Mass Effect 2 really brought the series and many of its characters to greatness. While ME3 has its own writing flaws, I do at least find it fun to play.

One thing I don't understand about Mass Effect: it seems, from polls and reading peoples' posts, that everyone plays Paragon. How? Paragon Shepherd is so boring. I've tried doing a Paragon playthrough of the trilogy twice and each time lasted about three hours before I started pushing people out windows and threatening shopkeepers with bad PR unless they gave me discounts. Renegade Shepherd is hilarious and the best combination of all 80s action hero character traits. Another thing I've never been able to do: save Kaidan instead of Ashley. I don't even like Ashley, but Kaidan is just... so forgettable.

[Fez]

16 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

One thing I don't understand about Mass Effect: it seems, from polls and reading peoples' posts, that everyone plays Paragon. How? Paragon Shepherd is so boring. I've tried doing a Paragon playthrough of the trilogy twice and each time lasted about three hours before I started pushing people out windows and threatening shopkeepers with bad PR unless they gave me discounts. Renegade Shepherd is hilarious and the best combination of all 80s action hero character traits. Another thing I've never been able to do: save Kaidan instead of Ashley. I don't even like Ashley, but Kaidan is just... so forgettable.

My usual Mass Effect playthrough back in the day and what I've been doing again through the remaster is to play about 80% renegade/20% paragon in ME1, around 50/50 in ME2 (mostly paragon with companions and renegade with everyone else), and about 80% paragon/20% renegade in ME3. I like the sense of character progression that gives, and also it fits with the vibes of each game.

In ME1 you're the detective with idiotic superiors, of course you should be a snarky, burnt out mess. And most of the game conversations are so sterile that it all feels lifeless unless you inject some chaotic energy. But there's a handful of "stupid evil" decisions if you go full renegade, and I never do those.

In ME2, you're back from the dead, that would be enough to change anyone's perspective at least somewhat. Also, the game is all about building a team, so it makes sense to have the camaraderie of a paragon there (except for a few renegade options that are really just some friendly chops busting). Meanwhile, the galaxy as a whole is still full of idiots, so they get the renegade.

In ME3, the apocalypse is happening, and it just feels right that Shepard would show a bit more compassion and is mostly paragon now. But there's a few times that paragon turns "lawful stupid", which is when it's time bring out the renegade. Also in favor of being more paragon is that those are generally the times that Shepard lets their guard down and is more emotionally raw, and Jennifer Hale absolutely nails all those lines as FemShep.

[Gorn]

33 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

One thing I don't understand about Mass Effect: it seems, from polls and reading peoples' posts, that everyone plays Paragon. How? Paragon Shepherd is so boring. I've tried doing a Paragon playthrough of the trilogy twice and each time lasted about three hours before I started pushing people out windows and threatening shopkeepers with bad PR unless they gave me discounts. Renegade Shepherd is hilarious and the best combination of all 80s action hero character traits. Another thing I've never been able to do: save Kaidan instead of Ashley. I don't even like Ashley, but Kaidan is just... so forgettable.

I like both Paragon and Renegade Shepard. I think of one as Captain Picard, and the other as Riggs from Lethal Weapon, both of whom are awesome characters in their own way.

However, I think the writers didn't really figure out how to write Renegade Shep until ME2. In ME1, Renegade Shepard is kind of a boring thug, while Paragon is awesome in all three games.

[briantw]

53 minutes ago, Fez said:

My usual Mass Effect playthrough back in the day and what I've been doing again through the remaster is to play about 80% renegade/20% paragon in ME1, around 50/50 in ME2 (mostly paragon with companions and renegade with everyone else), and about 80% paragon/20% renegade in ME3. I like the sense of character progression that gives, and also it fits with the vibes of each game.

In ME1 you're the detective with idiotic superiors, of course you should be a snarky, burnt out mess. And most of the game conversations are so sterile that it all feels lifeless unless you inject some chaotic energy. But there's a handful of "stupid evil" decisions if you go full renegade, and I never do those.

In ME2, you're back from the dead, that would be enough to change anyone's perspective at least somewhat. Also, the game is all about building a team, so it makes sense to have the camaraderie of a paragon there (except for a few renegade options that are really just some friendly chops busting). Meanwhile, the galaxy as a whole is still full of idiots, so they get the renegade.

In ME3, the apocalypse is happening, and it just feels right that Shepard would show a bit more compassion and is mostly paragon now. But there's a few times that paragon turns "lawful stupid", which is when it's time bring out the renegade. Also in favor of being more paragon is that those are generally the times that Shepard lets their guard down and is more emotionally raw, and Jennifer Hale absolutely nails all those lines as FemShep.

In my first play through of most games with decisions, I usually just pick the one I think will benefit me the most.  I’ve been doing a renegade replay of Mass Effect though and it’s been quite fun.  
 

I like the logic behind your play through. 

[Poobah]

1 hour ago, Caligula_K3 said:

One thing I don't understand about Mass Effect: it seems, from polls and reading peoples' posts, that everyone plays Paragon. How?

Do you play dudeshep? I dunno if the writing is different but feel like Hale brought a lot of real grit and badassitude to femshep's paragon lines where they felt boring and uninspired from Meer.

[Werthead]

Deus Ex: Human Revolution has, for my money, one of the very best soundtracks of any video game of all time. It's one of only a handful that I've actually bought as a separate thing. The one thing that's odd is that in the game itself, the music mix seems off so you don't always get a sense of how great it is in the game.

The Mass Effect trilogy soundtrack is one of the few other ones I own and it's pretty good, though I feel I prefer the slightly more offbeat electronic direction of the first game to the more standard orchestral fare of the second and third (the Clint Mansell collaborations in ME3 are amazing though).

[Corvinus85]

47 minutes ago, Werthead said:

The Mass Effect trilogy soundtrack is one of the few other ones I own and it's pretty good, though I feel I prefer the slightly more offbeat electronic direction of the first game to the more standard orchestral fare of the second and third (the Clint Mansell collaborations in ME3 are amazing though).

The second one a mix of orchestral and electronic. Suicide Mission is probably my favorite ME theme out of the whole trilogy. I also enjoy Andromeda's soundtrack.

[Durckad]

2 hours ago, Poobah said:

Do you play dudeshep? I dunno if the writing is different but feel like Hale brought a lot of real grit and badassitude to femshep's paragon lines where they felt boring and uninspired from Meer.

FemShep is Best Shep.

I feel this is most uncontroversial thing ever.

[kungtotte]

2 hours ago, Durckad said:

FemShep is Best Shep.

I feel this is most uncontroversial thing ever.

Yeah I don't think it's even a contest. "Actual character who speaks her lines with emotion" versus "Generic action hero doing generic action hero things".

[Corvinus85]

95% of my ME playthroughs have been with default MaleShep, the guy on the cover. 

[IlyaP]

16 hours ago, Werthead said:

It did have an ending, which was explaining why the relatively widespread use of augmentations in HR had collapsed by the time of DE1, and it did that reasonably well.

But they were all (or so I felt) terrible. YMMV though, I suppose.

[IlyaP]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

Deus Ex: Human Revolution has, for my money, one of the very best soundtracks of any video game of all time.

Here here. Michael McCann's work on the Deus Ex games is one of the highlights of the Eidos Montreal era of games.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

9 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I agree with people saying Mass Effect 1 is not that good of a game - though I haven't played the remastered edition yet. The gameplay was wonky, clunky, and just not fun. Wrex aside, the crew falls flat. It's got great worldbuilding, some cool roleplaying and an interesting plot, but it's one of my least favourite Bioware games. For me, Mass Effect 2 really brought the series and many of its characters to greatness. While ME3 has its own writing flaws, I do at least find it fun to play.

 

I gotta say, for all the work Bioware claimed they had to put in the first game, it sure feels like they didn't put much work into it. The way they fixed combat, for example, was to make it exactly the same, except you don't need to level up to use a weapon better. Don't get me wrong, you can still level up your assault rifles--but there's no need as your weapons don't sway anymore or anything like that.

They even talked about fixing elevators, and I think they did, but riding elevators still takes way too long, as does decontaminating as you board the Normandy. I honestly feel like spending 49 bucks on three games I already had, and as little work as they did, was a ripoff. If you haven't bought it yet and you own the originals, I'd say stick with those.

[Liffguard]

9 hours ago, Werthead said:

Deus Ex: Human Revolution has, for my money, one of the very best soundtracks of any video game of all time. It's one of only a handful that I've actually bought as a separate thing. The one thing that's odd is that in the game itself, the music mix seems off so you don't always get a sense of how great it is in the game.

The Mass Effect trilogy soundtrack is one of the few other ones I own and it's pretty good, though I feel I prefer the slightly more offbeat electronic direction of the first game to the more standard orchestral fare of the second and third (the Clint Mansell collaborations in ME3 are amazing though).

Agreed on both counts. However my personal favourite soundtrack is definitely Mirror's Edge: Catalyst. The game itself is very flawed, but Solar Fields absolutely nailed the music. Even though I don't particularly care for progressing through that game, I'll still fire it up pretty frequently so I can run some time trials through the cityscape at sunset with the music pulsing away in the background. It's incredibly atmospheric.

[Ghostlydragon]

13 hours ago, Fez said:

My usual Mass Effect playthrough back in the day and what I've been doing again through the remaster is to play about 80% renegade/20% paragon in ME1, around 50/50 in ME2 (mostly paragon with companions and renegade with everyone else), and about 80% paragon/20% renegade in ME3. I like the sense of character progression that gives, and also it fits with the vibes of each game.

In ME1 you're the detective with idiotic superiors, of course you should be a snarky, burnt out mess. And most of the game conversations are so sterile that it all feels lifeless unless you inject some chaotic energy. But there's a handful of "stupid evil" decisions if you go full renegade, and I never do those.

In ME2, you're back from the dead, that would be enough to change anyone's perspective at least somewhat. Also, the game is all about building a team, so it makes sense to have the camaraderie of a paragon there (except for a few renegade options that are really just some friendly chops busting). Meanwhile, the galaxy as a whole is still full of idiots, so they get the renegade.

In ME3, the apocalypse is happening, and it just feels right that Shepard would show a bit more compassion and is mostly paragon now. But there's a few times that paragon turns "lawful stupid", which is when it's time bring out the renegade. Also in favor of being more paragon is that those are generally the times that Shepard lets their guard down and is more emotionally raw, and Jennifer Hale absolutely nails all those lines as FemShep.

Interesting. I may do that but the opposite if I get the legendary edition. Start with a mostly kind Shep who will get worse as the galaxy goes to hell. It makes sense that dying and being bought back, plus things getting worse can change you for the worse and not better.

[Werthead]

12 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

The second one a mix of orchestral and electronic. Suicide Mission is probably my favorite ME theme out of the whole trilogy. I also enjoy Andromeda's soundtrack.

That's the one that Doctor Who produced a near-identical track ("I Am the Doctor") to at exactly the same time, to the point that it's impossible for one to have influenced the other. Very strange.

[Fez]

7 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I gotta say, for all the work Bioware claimed they had to put in the first game, it sure feels like they didn't put much work into it. The way they fixed combat, for example, was to make it exactly the same, except you don't need to level up to use a weapon better. Don't get me wrong, you can still level up your assault rifles--but there's no need as your weapons don't sway anymore or anything like that.

They even talked about fixing elevators, and I think they did, but riding elevators still takes way too long, as does decontaminating as you board the Normandy. I honestly feel like spending 49 bucks on three games I already had, and as little work as they did, was a ripoff. If you haven't bought it yet and you own the originals, I'd say stick with those.

Yeah, that's certainly true. I'm not that upset personally because I'm having fun playing the games again for the first time in 7 years. And I'd have to dig my 360 out of storage (and hoped that it still works) to play them if I didn't put the LE edition.

That said there's some pretty glaring shortcomings:

In ME3 they didn't fix the bug that prevents most of Zaeed's ambient Citadel dialog from playing. They didn't fix the bugs in the quest journal, or do anything to fix it's terrible layout. They also did not use the final patch version of original ME3; there were multiplayer balance changes made to some of the guns that were then brought to singleplayer, and none of those are present. It's also disappointing that there's no multiplayer in LE, but at least they announced that in advance.

In ME2 I don't think they brought any of ME3's combat improvements over to it. They also didn't fix the glitch in how Conrad Verner remembers you from ME1.

ME1 clearly got the most work, but the character models still look really bad compared to later games. Plus, as you say, they really didn't do that much to the combat.