Covid- Thank you, Next! Get out of our lives.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

What answer would be okay for you outside of a medical condition in which the potential hire has seen a doctor over?

I am legally prohibited, more or less, from asking any questions touching this in any interview.  So, frankly, unlikely to come up!

[Zorral]

13 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

I should have also said though that supply issues might cause delays with the booster rollout.  If Pfizer, Moderna, AZ, J&J, etc. are still producing the Gen 1 vaccine for the rest of the world when the call for boosters is made, then they may have very little capacity to produce the booster shots.  Could be another situation of paying to move to the front of the line.  

O gosh, you're right about that, of course.  I didn't stop to think about that, even though I am fretting about supply lines all the time.

[Fragile Bird]

Canada had been taking the position, up until now, that if you got AZ for your first dose you could choose to take AZ for your second dose or Pfizer or Moderna.

The government has just announced that AZ will no longer be given at all, not even for second doses. You can only take Pfizer or Moderna as a second shot. The decision was based on the fact that we now have a strong supply of vaccine (now that the US is allowing exports) so the risk of getting VITT isn't worth taking. eta: just saw a further report saying that if no mRNA vaccine is available at a location but AZ is available, the AZ can still be given. But that would have to be a very rare situation now.

You may have missed the news that the US government is giving Canada 1 M doses of the Moderna vaccine, with no strings attached, as part of it's earlier promise to give 80 M doses of vaccine to friends and allies. Apparently, according to reports out of the G7 meeting, Biden sees this as part of his promise that the US will "return to normal" by July 4th, and returning to normal includes opening the Canada-US border. I'm sure he told Trudeau that with a mild tone but there is definitely an underlining threat there. Numerous members of Congress and the Senate have been loudly demanding that the Canadian border be freely opened to Americans for weeks now. And yet, the US doesn't even have a vaccine verification system in place. 

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, Mudguard said:

The problem with variants is a problem to both groups.  As the virus picks up more and more mutations, the immunity from vaccines and prior infection is likely to get worse and worse.  Luckily, it will be relatively easy to generate booster shots tailored to the new variants, if needed.  Like the influenza vaccine, these booster shots can be developed and given without conducting time consuming clinical trials.  It's likely that Pfizer, Moderna, and the others have already designed the new booster shots, which is relatively trivial now that these new vaccine platforms have been validated, and can immediately start production the moment it's decided that boosters are needed.

I was reading recently about the Valneva vaccine who are claiming they may be less impacted by variants because their vaccine is based on the whole Covid virus rather than just some select parts so individual mutations are less important. Of course, since it is still in phase 3 trials we don't know whether it's going to live up to their claims.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

53 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I am legally prohibited, more or less, from asking any questions touching this in any interview.  So, frankly, unlikely to come up!

How is it that companies are saying going forward they’ll only hire vaccinated candidates then? Is this specific to your state and/or the legal community?

Also, it’s timely that you mention the legality of asking about people’s vaccination status. I was listening to a conversation yesterday where they were debating whether or not it was appropriate to ask your coworkers if they’ve been vaccinated, especially if you’re in a work environment that can’t reasonably practice social distancing and/or is not enforcing that people wear masks. I thought both sides of the debate made some reasonable points.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

38 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

How is it that companies are saying going forward they’ll only hire vaccinated candidates then? Is this specific to your state and/or the legal community?

Also, it’s timely that you mention the legality of asking about people’s vaccination status. I was listening to a conversation yesterday where they were debating whether or not it was appropriate to ask your coworkers if they’ve been vaccinated, especially if you’re in a work environment that can’t reasonably practice social distancing and/or is not enforcing that people wear masks. I thought both sides of the debate made some reasonable points.

I was particularly focused on asking about any medical conditions that would preclude a vaccine.  I’m relatively confident that I can’t ask about that.  I’m not sure about vaccine status, but I wouldn’t want to touch that either....

eta:  if you can ask about it, I would have HR do it as part of the on-board.  If I asked about it, then it could open a door I don’t want to walk in.

[maarsen]

34 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

How is it that companies are saying going forward they’ll only hire vaccinated candidates then? Is this specific to your state and/or the legal community?

Also, it’s timely that you mention the legality of asking about people’s vaccination status. I was listening to a conversation yesterday where they were debating whether or not it was appropriate to ask your coworkers if they’ve been vaccinated, especially if you’re in a work environment that can’t reasonably practice social distancing and/or is not enforcing that people wear masks. I thought both sides of the debate made some reasonable points.

Here in Canada, medical info is private and can't be asked for, but vaccination as a condition of employment can be asked for. I was required to be vaccinated for hepatitis before starting work at a hospital. 

[Padraig]

1 hour ago, Mudguard said:

I should have also said though that supply issues might cause delays with the booster rollout.  If Pfizer, Moderna, AZ, J&J, etc. are still producing the Gen 1 vaccine for the rest of the world when the call for boosters is made, then they may have very little capacity to produce the booster shots.  Could be another situation of paying to move to the front of the line.  

The US did order 200m more Moderna doses recently for delivery in Q4 this year and Q1 next year. 

Quote

“Importantly, the agreement gives the United States flexibility to choose which type of vaccine we will receive from Moderna if Moderna adjusts its formulation, for example, for pediatric vaccines or to address variants, and at the same price the U.S. has paid for the original vaccine," a Biden administration official told Axios.

Axios article

I don't think boosters will be an issue.  Not for the US anyhow.  And you'll only need 1 dose presumably.

Also regarding vaccinating those who have had COVID.  I know here people are being told you only need 1 dose.

6 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I thought I had read that Sinovac’s efficacy was actually not all that great in terms of suppressing infection (though reduced hospitalization significantly(, even against alpha (of course can’t remember where I read that), so this is not out of line with what I would have expected.  

This is true.  Sinovac got 51% efficacy in a trial in Brazil.  That was the main trial that the WHO used to approve it.  As you say, it did much better against more severe cases.

It also got 65% effiacy in Indonesia, 83.5% in Turkey, 67% in Chile and 51% in another trial in Brazil.  I imagine the wide variety is due to variants.  The Brazilian (or gamma) in particular.  I imagine we'll start hearing more about lambda soon too.  Most countries that have had major outbreaks have generated their own variant.  Its a surprise the US hasn't generated a major variant of interest.  Peru has seen more deaths per population than anywhere else in the world, so lambda is the result.  Its a good reminder (if we needed one) of the need to vaccinate the world.

The WHO has documents here on it.

Since it does apparently significantly reduces hospitalisation, if a country is having a major eruption in cases, then its a good option.  At the same time, Costa Rica just announced it wouldn't use Sinovac because of the lack of efficacy.  The European Medical Agency is evaluating Sinovac.  It'll be interesting to see what happens to it.  Sputnik isn't making speedy approval with the EMA certainly.

More here.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

43 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I was particularly focused on asking about any medical conditions that would preclude a vaccine.  I’m relatively confident that I can’t ask about that.  I’m not sure about vaccine status, but I wouldn’t want to touch that either....

eta:  if you can ask about it, I would have HR do it as part of the on-board.  If I asked about it, then it could open a door I don’t want to walk in.

Gotcha, that makes a lot more sense. 

42 minutes ago, Dog of England said:

Here in Canada, medical info is private and can't be asked for, but vaccination as a condition of employment can be asked for. I was required to be vaccinated for hepatitis before starting work at a hospital. 

I would assume we have something similar here, but the key word is "Ask." I'm curious if they can only ask and that it would be on the honor system. 

[Luzifer's right hand]

6 hours ago, williamjm said:

I was reading recently about the Valneva vaccine who are claiming they may be less impacted by variants because their vaccine is based on the whole Covid virus rather than just some select parts so individual mutations are less important. Of course, since it is still in phase 3 trials we don't know whether it's going to live up to their claims.

3 of the Chinese vaccines are inactivated coronavirus vaccines though. Most stuff that I read about them suggests that they are actually less effective. 

[Padraig]

Yes.  Sinovac is an inactivated vaccine.

[rotting sea cow]

17 hours ago, JoannaL said:

The numbers are really depressing for a country which vaccinated that much. do we have reliable efficacy data for sinovac yet (actually we should its also on the market half a year or so?, but I dont remember seeing them). Perhaps its not working against the gamma variant? I think I read something about problems in indonesia with sinovac too? But there the delta variant should be the problem not gamma?

I think Sinovac is having around 50% efficacy against the gamma variant according the studies done in Brazil. It was around 70% for the wild type of last year. On the other hand there weren't many choices. Only Pfizer has shipped in significant numbers but it wouldn't have made a difference. And there are breakthrough cases with Pfizer too. So variants are really changing the game.

A thing I forgot to mention is that many PCRs are coming back negative despite people having all symptoms. It's unclear if these are faulty tests, sloppy work by the labs (which are under heavy pressure nevertheless) or variants are slipping under the radar. Or maybe even other viruses.

17 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I thought I had read that Sinovac’s efficacy was actually not all that great in terms of suppressing infection (though reduced hospitalization significantly(, even against alpha (of course can’t remember where I read that), so this is not out of line with what I would have expected.  

Yes, it was known but the problem is the government acted criminally confident. Once the health care workers were vaccinated (with Pfizer) and the older population (70+ years olds) with Sinovac, they thought they could reopen and  disaster unfolded. Every time that an age group is fully vaccinated the next level begins to fill the hospitals. Now there are a lot of 30+ years olds in ICUs too and they are just starting to vaccinate that group. It's quite maddening.

It is difficult to compare the breakthrough cases between Pfizer and Sinovac. The former has been given to people like health care workers, teachers, fireworkers and people with some chronic diseases, cancer therapy, transplants and disabilities. Overall younger people, more health conscious but at higher risk of infection or to develop severe illness. Sinovac has been given to the general population.

 

 

Quote

In the meantime, two people have died in Calgary, Alberta, from the Delta variant, and one was double vaccinated, though I don't see what vaccine they had. The other person was unvaccinated. The Calgary Foothills hospital has had a Delta outbreak. There's also a Delta outbreak in a city near Toronto, called Waterloo, which is very worrisome. A lot of people commute to Toronto from the Kitchener-Waterloo area for work.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/province-records-two-deaths-related-to-delta-variant-at-foothills-medical-centre-outbreak

I think it was Pfizer. There is also an outbreak at the US embassy in Kabul. Delta really seems to be the one that may need a booster shot.

 

On 6/17/2021 at 8:11 AM, lessthanluke said:

I find the lack of empathy towards people who don't want the vaccine a tad disappointing on the board.

I know 4 people who've been hospitalised by the vaccine, 5 women who's periods have completely stopped since taking the vaccine, countless others who've just become completely lethargic since having jt. People are allowed to have worries without being being called idiots, its not an unreasonable fear being scared of a brand new vaccine.

Look. A colleague of mine was a week flat at home due to the vaccine and is doing now a bunch of medical examinations. I'd heard other stories too. I'd really wish that we wouldn't need to make this decision and understand that people are reluctant to make it. I truly blame the governments who have failed miserably in the handling of this crisis. Unfortunately, we don't have truly options unless you want and can effectively isolate at home for a large period of time. If you won't or can't chances are you are going to meet the virus sooner or later.  It's highly probable that you won't get severe disease, but will you throw that dice?

[rotting sea cow]

On 6/16/2021 at 11:46 PM, Padraig said:

A bad day for vaccines.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/health/curevac-vaccine.html

Curevac reports preliminary results of 47% efficiacy. 

I was reading about it now. Derek Lowe has a good write-up about the issue and he seems inclined to believe that the problem lays on an unmodified RNA bases they use, wherever that mean. 

But reading the comments, apparently this is patented process.

Quote

Unlike BioNTech and Moderna, Curevac didn’t apply that replacement. Btw. not neccessarily out of considerations for RNA “pureness”, but primarily for not having the respective patent, which is held by K. Karikó and UPenn.

but Curevac has other patents that might be useful according to another comment

Quote

CureVac has a patented technique in which the vaccine mRNA generates up to five times more immunogenic protein (spike and receptor binding domain) than other unspecified methods. It published this work in 2013. It can therefore use a smaller dose

I also want to remind that many of the highly effective vaccines use a "prefusion stabilized spike protein" that it's apparently more immunogenic. That also sounds like a patented process.

So, indeed. Patents might be hurting the development of vaccines and it's quite an irony that an European product might have been affected when the EU are the most staunch opposing party to the waiving of patents related to vaccines and medicines.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Tanzania, despite having more population than Italy, is claiming they've only had 509 Covid cases for the entire pandemic.

Sounds highly unlikely to me.

[Fragile Bird]

Listening to Dr. Gottlieb on CNBC this morning, I heard there’s a small but well-run study out of the UK of brain scans of Covid-19 patients that appears to show the virus causes brain damage. The area affected is the part of the frontal lobe that governs the sense of smell, which explains the temporary loss of smell that some people experience and the rarer cases of permanent loss.

[Fragile Bird]

6 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Tanzania, despite having more population than Italy, is claiming they've only had 509 Covid cases for the entire pandemic.

Sounds highly unlikely to me.

Yes, we had talked about this before. The president of Tanzania was a Covid denier, and declared that the country was free of Covid-19, due to prayer. He also dismissed the Covid-19 vaccine, saying that if such a thing were possible there would be vaccines for malaria and other diseases we do not have vaccines for yet. Apparently all kinds of tourists went to Tanzania because the virus trackers showed so few cases. Reports from numerous countries show tourists returning from Tanzania are infected at a rate of about 20%.
 

The president died of complications from Covid-19 earlier this year, as well as a number of members of his cabinet.

Institutions that reported cases of Covid-19 usually retracted their announcements the next day. The Episcopal church reported the deaths of almost 100 nuns and priests, and foreigners reported hospitals being overwhelmed by Covid-19 patients.

[DireWolfSpirit]

^^^^ Holy sh!+!!

 

[Filippa Eilhart]

Tanzania was also a pretty popular holiday destination last winter due to their claims of no covid. People apparently bought into that. Instagram was full of influencers promoting “normal” life amongst happy African children

[Filippa Eilhart]

both sides win the EU-AZ court case

https://www.politico.eu/article/belgian-court-rules-in-astrazenecas-favor-in-vaccine-dispute-dismisses-commissions-case/

(AZ needs to deliver much fewer doses than the Commission wanted but apparently the court conceded a serious breach of contract).

[Zorral]

"Expect the Unexpected From the Delta Variant
There’s no way of knowing how bad things will get in the U.S. In a way, that’s a luxury." (Paywall -- 3 free articles)

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/expect-unexpected-delta-variant/619245/

Quote

 

....Delta has gotten so much attention because it has the most troubling collection of traits yet: It is markedly more transmissible than Alpha, can sicken a large proportion of people who have had only one dose of a vaccine (though not those who have had two), and may even cause more severe disease. All of this is enough to be a warning, especially as Delta is now responsible for 10 percent of U.S. cases and rising. But as with Alpha, which was also suspected to be more severe, how the variant ends up behaving in the real world will depend on more than its biology. It will also depend on how we—the virus’s hosts—choose to behave, how many more people we vaccinate, and, to some extent, how lucky we get.

All of these factors are likely to have played a role in the Alpha-associated springtime spike in Michigan. According to cellphone mobility data from that period, people in the state had gone back to nearly pre-pandemic levels of movement, says Emily Martin, an epidemiologist at the University of Michigan. The Alpha variant also got to Michigan relatively early, and happened to find its way into groups of young people who were not yet eligible to be vaccinated. “It was sort of bad timing,” Martin told me. If Alpha had arrived a little later, or the vaccines a little earlier, then Michigan might have looked more like the rest of the country, where immunization was able to blunt Alpha’s impact. In the race between variants and vaccines elsewhere in the U.S., vaccines won....

....In predicting how variants will behave, much of the world has looked to the U.K., where an excellent and comprehensive genomic-surveillance program has tracked the rise of Alpha and now Delta. Alpha made up 98 percent of all COVID-19 cases in the U.K. at that variant’s peak in March; Delta has since taken over, accounting for almost all new cases. It’s too early to say whether the U.S. will follow the same trajectory. Alpha was responsible for anywhere from 38 to 86 percent of all new U.S. cases last month, depending on the state. Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at Yale, says this fact suggests the limits of comparing the two countries. “The U.S. is far more heterogeneous than the U.K.,” he told me, with more diversity in viruses and bigger geographic differences in vaccine uptake. When it comes to Delta, he said, “that means some places are going to be impacted harder.” And most likely, those places are going to be the ones where fewer people have been vaccinated....