Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Daeron the Daring

The reason I don't give Old Nan any credit.

Recommended Posts

So, many members of the forum think that Old Nan is more than a strange old woman with many stories, and he is the 3EC, a hidden Stark, Shiera Seastar, Quathie, or a powerful magician/witch.

That is mainly why people give her and her stories more credit than how much I think she deserves.

She can still be that kind of person wizlth those many stories and stuff, but nothing more. Still most of what we know about many things comes from her. Yet, along with knowledge comes stupidity as well.

Quote

They hunted the maids through the frozen forests, and fed their dead servants on the flesh of human children.

This is a quote from a story she told Bran. Doesn't it sound like a typical cliché horrors story? With the hunting of maidens and feeding their dead servants on children's flesh? It really does. It just sounds like Old Nan is tryna portray the worst to Bran without any knowledge but the stories she herself heard from somewhere.

If she really is a powerful character with serious knowledge about the true enemy, why did she let the story (I mean Bran) go sideways? Makes no sense.

She was or is just an old woman with stories another thousand people can tell as well up North. (This doesn't mean she wasn't part of Duncan's story, as many suspect)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Old Nan is wise in her own way.  Sure, she gives Bran the stories he likes to hear.  She gives him monster, chiller, horror theatre:

SCTV Monster Chiller Horror Theatre: Whispers of the Wolf - YouTube

Is there any truth to Old Nan's stories?

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran IV

"It was just a lie," he said bitterly, remembering the crow from his dream. "I can't fly. I can't even run."

"Crows are all liars," Old Nan agreed, from the chair where she sat doing her needlework. "I know a story about a crow."

"I don't want any more stories," Bran snapped, his voice petulant. He had liked Old Nan and her stories once. Before. But it was different now. They left her with him all day now, to watch over him and clean him and keep him from being lonely, but she just made it worse. "I hate your stupid stories."

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon I

"I've always known that Robb would be Lord of Winterfell."

Mormont gave a whistle, and the bird flew to him again and settled on his arm. "A lord's one thing, a king's another." He offered the raven a handful of corn from his pocket. "They will garb your brother Robb in silks, satins, and velvets of a hundred different colors, while you live and die in black ringmail. He will wed some beautiful princess and father sons on her. You'll have no wife, nor will you ever hold a child of your own blood in your arms. Robb will rule, you will serve. Men will call you a crow. Him they'll call Your Grace. Singers will praise every little thing he does, while your greatest deeds all go unsung. Tell me that none of this troubles you, Jon . . . and I'll name you a liar, and know I have the truth of it."

 

All crows are liars...

Nan hands down stories from a time when there was no written records.  I'm more curious about her stories of the Night King and Night Fort and what bits of truth can be found in them.  Same with the Wildlings and their stories.

Edited by LynnS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nan is important because a huge chunk of her knowledge on the others proved to be true! I had no idea people thought that nonsense about her...

 

Also she totally banged Duncan the tall so there’s that as well. There are four in series characters alive from the time of Aegon the unlikely; his brother Aegon, Walder Frey, Bloodraven, and Old Nan. Someone poke me if I missed one but that seems to be it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Old nan is just that, an old nan. People will say this person is a sorcerer or some hidden gardener etc. It happens with literally every character. It gets tiring but when you haven’t seen a wisp of any new material you start theorising things you never thought about before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

Old nan is just that, an old nan. People will say this person is a sorcerer or some hidden gardener etc. It happens with literally every character. It gets tiring but when you haven’t seen a wisp of any new material you start theorising things you never thought about before.

Oh, do tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LynnS said:

Old Nan is wise in her own way.

Course she is.

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

Sure, she gives Bran the stories he likes to hear.  She gives him monster, chiller, horror theatre:

It's not a problem when you consider her an old woman with many stories. But whatever other people (not me or you) claim she is should know such a person shouldn't throw then bullshit around like she does with Others regarding maidens and their blood.

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

Is there any truth to Old Nan's stories?

There obviously is. It's just that she's not that powerful entity or magician or whatever else some people imagine her.

She heard many stories, she gaves them away as well. She was a tool to George, she still might be, but not as the 3EC or the guardian or witch of any fate that has to be fulfilled or stuff like that.

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

All crows are liars...

That one I'd give to George's list of subtextual messages, not instanstly Old Nan's wisdom, but it's a nice catch. Besides, everyone is a liar.

1 hour ago, Leonardo said:

Also she totally banged Duncan the tall so there’s that as well.

I'd say it's a possibility. The fact that she isn't a wielder or supernatural force doesn't take away that part of her story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

That one I'd give to George's list of subtextual messages, not instanstly Old Nan's wisdom, but it's a nice catch. Besides, everyone is a liar.

I've got two more of this type of comparison, one for Arya and another for Jon.  I'll post them a bit later today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Arya gives us the connection between Faceless Men and grumkins:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

Jaqen still owed her one death. In Old Nan's stories about men who were given magic wishes by a grumkin, you had to be especially careful with the third wish, because it was the last. Chiswyck and Weese hadn't been very important. The last death has to count, Arya told herself every night when she whispered her names. But now she wondered if that was truly the reason she had hesitated. So long as she could kill with a whisper, Arya need not be afraid of anyone . . . but once she used up the last death, she would only be a mouse again.

Arya's three wishes are Martin's version of the Monkey's Paw:

The Monkey's Paw - Wikipedia

Quote

He makes his third wish. The knocking stops suddenly and Mrs. White opens the door to find no one is there.

Coldhands is another version of a grumkin/Faceless Man.  He exchanges three oaths for the lives that Sam owes him.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Samwell IV

Three times he had sworn to keep the secret; once to Bran himself, once to that strange boy Jojen Reed, and last of all to Coldhands. "The world believes the boy is dead," his rescuer had said as they parted. "Let his bones lie undisturbed. We want no seekers coming after us. Swear it, Samwell of the Night's Watch. Swear it for the life you owe me."

Sam owes Coldhands for the lives of Gilly, the baby and himself.

Edited by LynnS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

So, many members of the forum think that Old Nan is more than a strange old woman with many stories, and he is the 3EC, a hidden Stark, Shiera Seastar, Quathie, or a powerful magician/witch.

That is mainly why people give her and her stories more credit than how much I think she deserves.

After rereading these books too many times, if there is one hill I am wiling to die defending, it is that Old Nan is more than she seems!

I cannot disagree with you enough, nor can it be overstated how Old Nan is important.

Quote

She can still be that kind of person wizlth those many stories and stuff, but nothing more. Still most of what we know about many things comes from her. Yet, along with knowledge comes stupidity as well.

Oh my sweet summer child.. what stupidity? TBH I don't understand what your point here even is besides saying something obviously misguided to stir the proverbial pot.

Quote

This is a quote from a story she told Bran. Doesn't it sound like a typical cliché horrors story? With the hunting of maidens and feeding their dead servants on children's flesh? It really does. It just sounds like Old Nan is tryna portray the worst to Bran without any knowledge but the stories she herself heard from somewhere.

She is literally telling children stories, that doesn't make them stupid or without wisdom. We see the Others do literally hunt people through the woods and take Craster's sons... Nan's stories might require interpretation at times, and shouldn't always be taken literally, but she is reliably more trustworthy than any other source of information. 

Quote

If she really is a powerful character with serious knowledge about the true enemy, why did she let the story (I mean Bran) go sideways? Makes no sense.

Secret knowledge, absolutely, but what true enemy? I think you will find that the greatest enemy of mankind is mankind.

It should also be noted that I don't think anyone suggests she is omnipotent, and she certainly didn't "let" things go sideways. Theon knocked her over... Theon led the way up the stairs. I have climbed these steps a thousand times before. As a boy he would run up; descending, he would take the steps three at a time, leaping. Once he leapt right into Old Nan and knocked her to the floor.

Quote

She was or is just an old woman with stories another thousand people can tell as well up North. (This doesn't mean she wasn't part of Duncan's story, as many suspect)

So you think she was just a noname commoner? Is that your conclusion here? Just a nobody telling nonsense stories?

I have to be honest, I don't know how you read this series, and have the wise old woman who's eye/hair color are not given and come to the conclusion she is a nobody... lol

Though Old Nan did not think so, and she'd lived longer than any of them. "Dragons," she said, lifting her head and sniffing. She was near blind and could not see the comet, yet she claimed she could smell it. "It be dragons, boy," she insisted. Bran got no princes from Nan, no more than he ever had.

I think the safe money is that Old Nan is the three eyed crow and a Targaryen.

Edited by Mourning Star

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

She was or is just an old woman with stories another thousand people can tell as well up North.

Agreed. I don't know why GRRM even puts old people in his books. They are obviously one-dimensional characters and have no special powers or hidden backstories. If Old Nan were really important to the story, she would have Turkish Delight candies to give to Bran.

I plan to wait for the Reader's Digest version of the last two books instead of wasting my time looking for depth, allusion and themes hidden behind the characters and events. I hope the abridged versions will also take out the horror cliches, such as 

9 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

the hunting of maidens and feeding their dead servants on children's flesh?

Hello? Wake up, GRRM! How many times do we have to see that kind of everyday scenario in a novel before the author realizes that it is simply old and dull? 

I hope the author will stop trying to fool us. Maybe he could even clarify with a preface when a character is introduced: "This character is a straightforward, single-purpose character. There is no hidden meaning beyond what a self-confident hipster undergrad can glean from a first reading. Do not hurt your brain by trying to make connections among the complicated arcs of disparate characters from the novels and the legends and histories within the novels. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

;)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Leonardo said:

There are four in series characters alive from the time of Aegon the unlikely; his brother Aegon, Walder Frey, Bloodraven, and Old Nan. Someone poke me if I missed one but that seems to be it

Egg's brother maester Aemon is already dead.

Aegon the Unlikely died merely 41 years ago, so there are many people who lived during his reign.

There's Barristan Selmy, he personally knew Dunk&Egg. Tattered Prince is in his 60s, same as Barristan. There's Shella Whent and Ben Blacktumb (he came to serve at Harrenhal still during Maekar I's reign). 

There's also Shiera Seastar and the Ghost of High Heart (both of them are over 110 years old).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Egg's brother maester Aemon is already dead.

Aegon the Unlikely died merely 41 years ago, so there are many people who lived during his reign.

There's Barristan Selmy, he personally knew Dunk&Egg. Tattered Prince is in his 60s, same as Barristan. There's Shella Whent and Ben Blacktumb (he came to serve at Harrenhal still during Maekar I's reign). 

There's also Shiera Seastar and the Ghost of High Heart (both of them are over 110 years old).

Don't forget Squire Dalbridge!

As you say, there are plenty of characters who are old enough to have been around when Aegon V was king.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nan gives the Stark kids the stories from only one point of view. She's the Mel to Stannis and the Quaithe to Daenerys.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Nan gives the Stark kids the stories from only one point of view. She's the Mel to Stannis and the Quaithe to Daenerys.  

I'm not sure I agree with this parallel, but I think there is a pretty decent chance these three women are all related (by blood).

Her daughters had long ago married and moved away and died.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She is a storyteller. Some contain truth, like her tale of the Long Night, and others are just that, stories.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/4/2021 at 12:32 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

Nan gives the Stark kids the stories from only one point of view. She's the Mel to Stannis and the Quaithe to Daenerys.  

Not sure I'd agree with this. Mel definitely has an agenda with Stannis, I'm pretty sure Quaithe does too with Daenerys. Nan's "agenda" with the Stark kids doesn't seem anything beyond just someone earning a living in the Stark household.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Not sure I'd agree with this. Mel definitely has an agenda with Stannis, I'm pretty sure Quaithe does too with Daenerys. Nan's "agenda" with the Stark kids doesn't seem anything beyond just someone earning a living in the Stark household.

Meaning a personal agenda? I'd agree with that. But Nan is definitely more than an employee - she's grown into the family. Bran sends her sweets because he loves her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Old Nan is one of their nannies. That she has a colorful history sounds likely. 

Old Nan looks after a crippled Bran. That he gets angry and takes it out on her is to be expected. If Nan and Hodor are both connected to Dunk...makes sense.

Old people in the books are a mixed bag such as Maester Aemon, the Old Bear, Walder Frey,  Olenna Tyrell, Bloodraven , Mel? and The Reader. 
 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/4/2021 at 11:41 AM, Megorova said:

Egg's brother maester Aemon is already dead.

Aegon the Unlikely died merely 41 years ago, so there are many people who lived during his reign.

There's Barristan Selmy, he personally knew Dunk&Egg. Tattered Prince is in his 60s, same as Barristan. There's Shella Whent and Ben Blacktumb (he came to serve at Harrenhal still during Maekar I's reign). 

There's also Shiera Seastar and the Ghost of High Heart (both of them are over 110 years old).

 

On 6/4/2021 at 11:41 AM, Megorova said:

Egg's brother maester Aemon is already dead.

Aegon the Unlikely died merely 41 years ago, so there are many people who lived during his reign.

There's Barristan Selmy, he personally knew Dunk&Egg. Tattered Prince is in his 60s, same as Barristan. There's Shella Whent and Ben Blacktumb (he came to serve at Harrenhal still during Maekar I's reign). 

There's also Shiera Seastar and the Ghost of High Heart (both of them are over 110 years old).

 

Pardon I meant from the time of Dunk and Egg, not his reign as king. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...