Formula 1 2020/2021: Shits getting crazier

[kungtotte]

I don't know why a three hour limit is being discussed.

There are two time limits to consider: a two hour one and a four hour one. A race may not go on longer than two hours. However should a race be suspended, the time the race is suspended is added to that two hours up to a maximum of four hours.

The race started at 15:25 local time so that gives an outside limit of 19:25 when the race window is officially ended. If they (incorrectly?) count 15:00 as the race start that still puts the outside limit at 19:00 local time, or four hours total time.

I literally just scanned through the sporting regulations, there's no mention of a three hour limit anywhere.

edit

Nevermind, when I googled "formula 1 2021 sporting regulations" the first result on the page was in fact the 2020 regulations (because why wouldn't it be?) so I was reading outdated documents.

[Werthead]

Yeah, that was a 2021 reg change.

They halted the clock at one hour, and the race is due to resume in 10 minutes. Whether that's a full race or that's a lap fulfilment behind the safety car to get the classification is unclear. The safety car's recon lap suggests there are wide stretches of the track which are better, but there is some standing water in a few places.

[Werthead]

Max Verstappen (in the lead with nobody in front of him): "Yeah, it's fine, we can go racing."

The rest of the field: "Fuck this noise, we can't see anything."

ETA: Even Max has called it now and the session has been red flagged. I can't see them going again, so that could be the shortest race in F1 history.

[Werthead]

It's been called. Max Verstappen wins, George Russell comes second! Hamilton's lead in the championship drops from 8 to 3 points.

Oh wow, half points for the first time in a long time. Lews Hamilton on 202.5 and Max Verstappen on 199.5.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I still don't fully understand the scoring system. That seems like a significant cut in Hamilton's lead despite there not being a race.

[kungtotte]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I still don't fully understand the scoring system. That seems like a significant cut in Hamilton's lead despite there not being a race.

If they complete two laps under race conditions (leading car passes the control line at least twice) it is enough to classify the race as having been run, this is what happened since the laps driven behind the safety car after the last restart counted as race laps.

If they complete less than 75% of the total race distance only half points will be awarded as opposed to full points. So the leader gets 25/2 points, P2 gets 18/2 and so on.

So Hamilton got 7.5 points and Verstappen got 12.5 points, and thereby Verstappen took 5 points out of Hamilton's 8 point lead.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, kungtotte said:

If they complete two laps under race conditions (leading car passes the control line at least twice) it is enough to classify the race as having been run, this is what happened since the laps driven behind the safety car after the last restart counted as race laps.

Two laps? That seems way too low.

Thanks for the info though. 

[williamjm]

40 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Two laps? That seems way too low.

Thanks for the info though. 

I suspect when they wrote the rules they weren't expecting there ever would be a grand prix like this one. I wonder if they might revise that in future.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

40 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I suspect when they wrote the rules they weren't expecting there ever would be a grand prix like this one. I wonder if they might revise that in future.

I'm kind of surprised it doesn't happen more often. The weather does as it pleases.

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, williamjm said:

I suspect when they wrote the rules they weren't expecting there ever would be a grand prix like this one. I wonder if they might revise that in future.

I think Hamilton's right and when they wrote the rules they did so in the full knowledge that if it does happen they'll be able to get out of automatically owing a refund to the fans (and probably sponsors etc) by completing two laps and therefore officially having a race.

[Werthead]

11 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm kind of surprised it doesn't happen more often. The weather does as it pleases.

F1 has done a good job of scheduling races to avoid bad weather seasons in various countries, so really it has to be a really freaky multi-hour rainfall falling unseasonably across a whole weekend, and unpredictably enough that they can't call it earlier and reschedule (as in Spa 1985). I suspect it's one of the reasons the sometimes-mooted Irish Grand Prix has never happened.

This was a freak event, the first time in 71 seasons and almost 1,050 races, but now it's happened they have to consider the likelihood of it happening again (and maybe increased likelihood, given climate change and the potential shifting of the Gulf Stream that would make the weather in Europe more unpredictable all-year-round). 

[williamjm]

11 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm kind of surprised it doesn't happen more often. The weather does as it pleases.

I think there has been a bit of luck in the past, there have been some near-misses in recent years. The Japanese GP in 2019 had qualifying postponed from Saturday due to a typhoon but by the Sunday the weather had cleared.

6 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I think Hamilton's right and when they wrote the rules they did so in the full knowledge that if it does happen they'll be able to get out of automatically owing a refund to the fans (and probably sponsors etc) by completing two laps and therefore officially having a race.

I would have thought they would have insurance against inclement weather.

It would be really unreasonable for the fans not to be refunded for the Sunday.

[Loge]

The region 

11 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm kind of surprised it doesn't happen more often. The weather does as it pleases.

Rain in Spa isn't exactly rare, but there have been some unusually heavy rainfalls this year in the region, which caused some very bad floods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_European_floods

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Interesting responses. Perhaps I'm bringing my own bias into this because I come from a place with wildly unpredictable weather. It can be -50 degrees in the winter and over 100 in the summer, and you can get 50 degree swings in just a few days. I agree though that climate change is going to make it harder to plan races in the future. Adding Miami to F1 is an interesting choice given that city could be underwater in the not too distant future. 

[kungtotte]

Next GP is at Zandvoort, NL which sits only 3 meters above sea level and only 700 meters inland.

I think Miami is no worse off.

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, kungtotte said:

Next GP is at Zandvoort, NL which sits only 3 meters above sea level and only 700 meters inland.

I think Miami is no worse off.

 

I suppose the difference is that the Netherlands has probably the best flood controls in the world whereas America doesn't seem particularly bothered about protecting Miami.

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I suppose the difference is that the Netherlands has probably the best flood controls in the world whereas America doesn't seem particularly bothered about protecting Miami.

It's not physically possible to protect Miami. The city and most of the surrounding area sits on limestone, so the water just comes bubbling up through the rock the city sits on. It is unsalvageable. Other cities, sure, you can build protective barriers around them, but Miami is completely a goner.

[polishgenius]

19 minutes ago, Werthead said:

It's not physically possible to protect Miami. The city and most of the surrounding area sits on limestone, so the water just comes bubbling up through the rock the city sits on. It is unsalvageable. Other cities, sure, you can build protective barriers around them, but Miami is completely a goner.

 

True true.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

I suppose the difference is that the Netherlands has probably the best flood controls in the world whereas America doesn't seem particularly bothered about protecting Miami.

I agree with Wert it can’t be saved, but I wouldn’t blame this on the country as a whole. Florida’s state government is a joke and Miami might be the most corrupt city in the country. Politically speaking a few families have basically complete control of the city and financially the city was propped up on laundered drug money. The former isn’t going to change and the latter is no longer an option. The city is in bad shape before you even factor in the looming climate crisis.

[Werthead]

Lots of dominoes falling into place with the driver market for 2022. None of this is officially confirmed but it seems to be an open secret in the paddock:

George Russell is moving to Mercedes, everyone agrees that is 100% happening and the deal was done weeks ago.

Valteri Bottas is moving to Alfa Romeo to replace the retiring Kimi Raikkonen, and there are surprising reports that Nyck de Vries is going to replace Antonio Giovinazzi. There's even reports that Alfa (the race car team, not the overall marque obviously) is basically severing its relationship with Ferrari and is seceding to the Mercedes camp, and may start running Mercedes engines from 2023 onwards and will drop the Alfa name (possibly for a return to Sauber). That's all pretty huge, and further embarrassment for Ferrari as that leaves them solely with Haas as a viable (well, maybe) B-team.

Williams are apparently poised to sign Alexander Albon to replace the departing Russell. Nicholas Latifi will retain his seat after a marked improvement this season following a fairly flat performance last year, but some reports that Oscar Piastri (current F3 champion and current F2 championship leader) might be promoted to Williams development driver with a view to a 2023 or 2024 race seat to replace Latifi if he doesn't improve. Current development driver and W Series champion Jamie Chadwick is also reportedly being considered if she wins W Series again this year, though there seems to be some debate that they want to see her doing well in F3 or F2 before that (not to mention the sponsorship differences).

Everyone else seems to be set for next year. Red Bull, Ferrari, Alpine, AlphaTauri (despite some probing interest in Gasly, nobody was interested in pulling the trigger on that), McLaren, Haas (despite a few rumblings over Schumacher going somewhere else, he seems keen to stay in the Ferrari family) and Aston Martin all have both drivers under contract.