Formula 1 2020/2021: Shits getting crazier

[Werthead]

That was odd. Looks like the low-downforce Red Bull wing really doesn't like Monza, but they managed to make some setup changes for Max to get a better lap out of it.

The McLarens looked exceptional, but Bottas on poll for the sprint but starting the race from the back creates interesting tactical options for Mercedes.

[williamjm]

23 hours ago, Werthead said:

That was odd. Looks like the low-downforce Red Bull wing really doesn't like Monza, but they managed to make some setup changes for Max to get a better lap out of it.

The McLarens looked exceptional, but Bottas on poll for the sprint but starting the race from the back creates interesting tactical options for Mercedes.

The sprint qualifying probably went perfectly for Verstappen given that it's not Red Bull's favoured track. Bottas looked comfortable for the 'win' but with Max starting on pole and Hamilton having to get past the McLarens it is likely going to be a tough race for Mercedes.

[Werthead]

Yeah, that went pretty badly wrong for Mercedes. Lewis can still win,  but it's going to be tougher and will require a big performance differential to the McLarens. He needs to overhaul both of them quickly to stand a chance of catching Verstappen. If Verstappen pulls out a 20+ second lead over Lewis before he gets into second, I can't see Lewis reeling him in without a mistake, mechanical failure or weather. A safety car might be his best chance if he can't get a great start.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Vroom, vroom, let's fucking go!

Italia looks so beautiful. I have $5k set aside to backpack from Athens to Rome over a few weeks and was planning on doing it in 2020. Damn you, pandemic!!!!

[Werthead]

The designer of the halo once again earning every single penny. There is no question Hamilton would have been killed without it. As it was the tyre actually hit his head and you can see him ducking in the cockpit. JFC.

And Verstappen just stormed off without checking him. I get that he probably didn't see where the rear wheel went, but he knew that was a massive shunt and you check to make sure the other guy is okay before berating him (like Russell did with Bottas: "You okay? Good, you twat").

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Werthead said:

The designer of the halo once again earning every single penny. There is no question Hamilton would have been killed without it. As it was the tyre actually hit his head and you can see him ducking in the cockpit. JFC.

And Verstappen just stormed off without checking him. I get that he probably didn't see where the rear wheel went, but he knew that was a massive shunt and you check to make sure the other guy is okay before berating him (like Russell did with Bottas: "You okay? Good, you twat").

Yeah, scary scene indeed. But in Max's defense isn't this the third time Hamilton has crashed him from behind this season? I can understand a younger driver storming off. 

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

And Verstappen just stormed off without checking him. I get that he probably didn't see where the rear wheel went, but he knew that was a massive shunt and you check to make sure the other guy is okay before berating him (like Russell did with Bottas: "You okay? Good, you twat").

 

Verstappen's definitely a prick, so he might just have been being a tosser, but I'm pretty sure Hamilton was still trying to reverse his car at the time, so it might have been not just 'I know he's okay let's bounce' but just good sense to get out of the way.

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Yeah, scary scene indeed. But in Max's defense isn't this the third time Hamilton has crashed him from behind this season? I can understand a younger driver storming off. 

You can tell by both Verstappen and Horner's demeanour after they race that they knew it was shading into more being Max's fault, with Horner making a semi-lacklustre argument that it was a racing incident, which I think he knows is the best decision they're going to get. Compared to Silverstone, they were sheepish in the extreme.

Hamilton was in the lead and had the line (such as there is in one of the tightest, difficult-to-sight corners on the entire calendar), but Verstappen was significantly alongside him, so you could make the argument that Hamilton could have tried to leave more room, but there wasn't much room to give without Hamilton going off the other side and Hamilton made a reasonable argument that cars on the inside (this year and in others) can go over the curbs to avoid contact, as he did earlier.

[Werthead]

Quote

Verstappen's definitely a prick, so he might just have been being a tosser, but I'm pretty sure Hamilton was still trying to reverse his car at the time, so it might have been not just 'I know he's okay let's bounce' but just good sense to get out of the way.

Verstappen immediately turned round and walked directly behind Hamilton's car whilst he was still spinning the wheels, so if Hamilton had pulled free he would have risked hitting him, so I get the impression Max didn't notice and didn't give a shit.

I think it's more likely Verstappen didn't realise how bad the hit was until he got back to the pits and saw it was a lot worse than it felt like in the cockpit.

[williamjm]

34 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I think it's more likely Verstappen didn't realise how bad the hit was until he got back to the pits and saw it was a lot worse than it felt like in the cockpit.

In terms of the forces involved it was probably comparatively mild due to not being a fast corner, the danger was due to the positioning of the cars so I can understand why Verstappen might not have thought it too dangerous without seeing that, although it would still be courteous to check Hamilton was OK anyway.

It could have been a very nasty accident without the Halo protection, we have occasionally seen cars landing on top of each other but I can't remember another example in recent years of a tyre making contact with a driver's head.

There did seem almost an inevitability that there would be another collision between the two and likely this won't be the last this season. I suspect it might be judged a racing incident, although it was definitely aggressive driving.

Away from that drama, it was a great victory for Ricciardo and McLaren and great to see them back atop the podium after a long time in the wilderness (particularly for the team, although Ricciardo's start to the season was dreadful by his standards). The Verstappen/Hamilton crash might take most of the headlines but Ricciardo was well ahead of them anyway before that so he did deserve the victory. Bottas had a strong drive as well through the field, he seemed to have more pace than Hamilton and overtook a lot of cars although seemed to run out of steam a bit right at the end, perhaps having used up the tyre's peak performance.

[kungtotte]

It was a ridiculous accident from all sides but it should be ruled a racing incident, since the lap 1 shoving off of Lewis was judged as such.

Lewis could have slowed more and hugged the right, Max could have slowed more and gone off to the left. Lewis should 100% have ceded the corner and overtaken Max later on because we saw with Bottas what pace advantage the Merc had over the RB and with Lewis on fresh tyres it would've been easy.

Silly peacocking from the pair of them.

[Werthead]

Verstappen has a 3-place grid penalty at the next race.

[Werthead]

We should consider the very real possibility that Verstappen's crash happened after he suddenly realised if he got on the podium he would have to do a shoey.

Meanwhile, Bottas very happy to have dodged that bullet like a mfer.

 

[williamjm]

I watched Netflix's Schumacher documentary. It was an interesting trip down memory lane since I can remember most of the incidents they showed in it. I thought it was a good summary of his career, it's not as powerful a documentary as Senna although the ending is particularly poignant as his family reflect on his skiing accident and its aftermath.

[Iskaral Pust]

19 hours ago, williamjm said:

I watched Netflix's Schumacher documentary. It was an interesting trip down memory lane since I can remember most of the incidents they showed in it. I thought it was a good summary of his career, it's not as powerful a documentary as Senna although the ending is particularly poignant as his family reflect on his skiing accident and its aftermath.

I enjoyed it too.  I thought it gave him some deserved credit for taking on the challenge of Ferrari and their terrible car.  He could have prioritized maximizing his number of personal career championships instead.  It was a bit hard though to reconcile their descriptions of a shy, goofy/funny, sweet Michael Schumacher with the arrogant, ultra-driven version the fans saw.  I was a big fan of his racing style, but he didn’t seem a likable person. (The real successor to Nicky Lauda)

[Werthead]

17 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I enjoyed it too.  I thought it gave him some deserved credit for taking on the challenge of Ferrari and their terrible car.  He could have prioritized maximizing his number of personal career championships instead.  It was a bit hard though to reconcile their descriptions of a shy, goofy/funny, sweet Michael Schumacher with the arrogant, ultra-driven version the fans saw.  I was a big fan of his racing style, but he didn’t seem a likable person. (The real successor to Nicky Lauda)

Lauda was more likeable because he combined his undoubted skill and technical judgement with ruthlessness but also a note of caution (even before his accident), and a brilliant I-don't-give-a-fuck attitude that is much more Kimi-esque, which was at times genuinely funny. Schumacher never really was funny, and his attempts to be so were pure cringe (whilst Vettel has maybe a 50-50 hit rate, with arguably his highlight being sitting between a fuming Hamilton and Rosberg offering to be their marriage counsellor). Not a problem though, as it's not their job.

Lauda I think also got towering respect because of 1976 and gaining the reputation of being the most hardcore F1 driver who's ever been on track. Schumacher has a lot of respect from his skill, but he also acted like a massive dick on numerous occasions.

[Toth]

6 hours ago, Werthead said:

Lauda was more likeable because he combined his undoubted skill and technical judgement with ruthlessness but also a note of caution (even before his accident), and a brilliant I-don't-give-a-fuck attitude that is much more Kimi-esque, which was at times genuinely funny. Schumacher never really was funny, and his attempts to be so were pure cringe (whilst Vettel has maybe a 50-50 hit rate, with arguably his highlight being sitting between a fuming Hamilton and Rosberg offering to be their marriage counsellor). Not a problem though, as it's not their job.

Lauda I think also got towering respect because of 1976 and gaining the reputation of being the most hardcore F1 driver who's ever been on track. Schumacher has a lot of respect from his skill, but he also acted like a massive dick on numerous occasions.

That's also my impression. It should also be added that Lauda was always (even before his accident) very vocal when it came to safety measures and a significant force in the reestablishment of the Driver's Association, rallying other drivers to go on strike alongside him to boycott stuff he thought too dangerous to do. My impression of him, especially thanks to his non-stop presence in German TV, was that while he liked very much to get across as an abrasive jerk with no filter whatsoever, he also cared very deeply for pretty much everyone and in return everyone saw and respected that. Also compare the Lauda Air 004 crash where he would not stop personally investigating the faulty thrust reverse and aggressively pressured Boing to compensate the families of the victims.

In the meantime Schumacher was, well, Schumacher. He frequently endangered other drivers to get the win and came across as an arrogant tool who had his success get to his head in pretty much every social context.

[Werthead]

Well, that was weird. All due to Hamilton's mistake in clipping the wall on pit lane entry, then delaying Bottas in the pits which threw both Mercs out of position.

Hamilton has to be back in contention tomorrow, and he needs to clear the cars in front fast, because a fast-starting Verstappen mashing his way through the field could well get into the top five. But if Norris gets a clean break at the start (as is likely, with around half a second per lap on the Ferrari), he's going to be very tough to stop. The Ferrari and Williams are definitely out of position and are not likely to give Hamilton too much trouble over the race distance, but if the McLaren can lay down some clean air for a few laps, Hamilton can start getting headaches.

Merc also have an additional problem in that Perez is close enough to Bottas and likely to rise through the ranks with him, so that he can neutralise a lot of their two-car strategies.

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Well, that was weird. All due to Hamilton's mistake in clipping the wall on pit lane entry, then delaying Bottas in the pits which threw both Mercs out of position.

Hamilton has to be back in contention tomorrow, and he needs to clear the cars in front fast, because a fast-starting Verstappen mashing his way through the field could well get into the top five. But if Norris gets a clean break at the start (as is likely, with around half a second per lap on the Ferrari), he's going to be very tough to stop. The Ferrari and Williams are definitely out of position and are not likely to give Hamilton too much trouble over the race distance, but if the McLaren can lay down some clean air for a few laps, Hamilton can start getting headaches.

Merc also have an additional problem in that Perez is close enough to Bottas and likely to rise through the ranks with him, so that he can neutralise a lot of their two-car strategies.

In a way Hamilton perhaps got lucky that his mistake didn't have an even bigger impact with only three drivers managing to improve enough on slicks to get past his faster time on inters. He could easily have ended up further back on the grid. Also, if this was going to happen it's probably better for him that it happened when Verstappen isn't able to challenge for pole himself.

It does look like it should make tomorrow a much more interesting race than the Russian GP has tended to be in the past.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Wild race so far.

Also, thanks ESPN for saying this race would start at 8. FFS