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Formula 1 2020/2021: Shits getting crazier


TheLastWolf
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5 hours ago, Toth said:

I think Kimi tried to attack Russell and had to back off, but it's hard to see with the clips I've got. Vettel also said that Räikkönnen must simply have just not noticed him coming up alongside him from the right and that's it.

I think Kimi expected Vettel to hold a much tighter racing line through the curve, but given Vettel's car was 80% ahead of him, there was no reason to expect that. Kimi should have backed off and run a shallower line to be safe, since he was effectively unsighted by Vettel on that line (Vettel knew he was there, but would expect him to back off).

Maybe Kimi's age is starting to tell a little. Some rumours he'll be retiring at the end of this season, which is probably for the best.

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Yeah he's said he's tired of the circus. He likes racing but all the traveling and press and other stuff is getting to be too much.

If he does retire, do you think they'll move Mick up into Alfa Romeo to partner Giovanazzi?

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On 7/6/2021 at 5:24 PM, kungtotte said:

Yeah he's said he's tired of the circus. He likes racing but all the traveling and press and other stuff is getting to be too much.

If he does retire, do you think they'll move Mick up into Alfa Romeo to partner Giovanazzi?

That'd be a slam dunk move. Maybe Haas could run Ilott instead. Though putting him and Mazepin in the same team would be like introducing oil to a lit match, so maybe not.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It was a very competitive qualifying-but-not-really-qualifying session today with Hamilton and Verstappen looking evenly matched although I don't think either managed to find their best lap time. Behind them another impressive qualifying from George Russel to get well into the top 10 and I liked the British crowd cheering him round.

I don't really know if anyone knows what to expect from the sprint race tomorrow but hopefully it'll be entertaining. I do wonder if drivers might be a bit more cautious since they won't want to compromise the proper race by having an accident tomorrow.

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That was an outstanding qualifying session, though a few disappointments like Norris's outstanding pace seemed to desert him. Verstappen also noted there's an aero imbalance in the Red Bull and if they can correct it with the limited adjustments they can make in parc ferme, that might put them ahead of the Mercedes, but if the problem is in the rear wing then they're screwed.

I think the drivers are racers and once they see the green light they'll switch to racing mode and go for it, I don't think they're going to go too conservative.

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One should remember that Norris got mugged a few days ago and is by all accounts still shook up, and in one interview I saw he mentioned being in some physical pain. So with that taken into account I think he did well to qualify as he did.

Totally outstanding qualifying for Russell though. Two Q3 appearances in a row, and this time he qualified 8th only 0.8s behind the pole-sitter. He's really making a strong case for Toto to get off his ass and sign him already before a Mercedes competitor snatches him up. I don't think Toto would like it if Russell ended up in a Ferrari-powered team for 2022, or worse Honda.

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1 hour ago, kungtotte said:

One should remember that Norris got mugged a few days ago and is by all accounts still shook up, and in one interview I saw he mentioned being in some physical pain. So with that taken into account I think he did well to qualify as he did.

Totally outstanding qualifying for Russell though. Two Q3 appearances in a row, and this time he qualified 8th only 0.8s behind the pole-sitter. He's really making a strong case for Toto to get off his ass and sign him already before a Mercedes competitor snatches him up. I don't think Toto would like it if Russell ended up in a Ferrari-powered team for 2022, or worse Honda.

Well, he 100% won't for Honda ;) Helmut Marko did throw the cat amongst the pigeons by saying that if Russell is out of contract for 2022 or 2023, Red Bull would have to look at him based on his phenomenal form, which might be all that Toto needs to sign up.

Then the question is what to do with Bottas. He's actually a very strong driver, often neck and neck with Lewis in equal machinery but not quite as consistent (and far more unlucky; every single Mercedes DNF, mechanical failure or on-track collision since 2018 has affected him, and not once Hamilton). The only option might be for him to swap with Russell back to Williams, which might not be as bad a prospect as it once was if the Williams can now be a midfield runner, but clearly ends any hope he has of being a championship contender again. But then he's had five seasons to make that argument and failed to do so.

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I'm not sure the sprint entirely worked. If, as Hamilton claimed, the Red Bull is superior, then all it did was confirm that and deny Hamilton and Mercedes the chance to come back in the pit stops. It also showed the hazards involved: Perez would not have binned the car in qualifying because the problem was caused by turbulence off the back of the car in front.

Giving more space for great stories like Russell holding a good position (before the pointless penalty) and Alonso making up five places off the start worked and was fun, but overall I don't think it shook things up as was the intent. Wolff made a good point that 17 laps was too long and maybe they should hold it to 10 laps to maximise excitement.

Certainly for a paying punter it adds more on-track action to the weekend and encourages people to attend three days rather than just two, which is good.

Edited by Werthead
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3 hours ago, Werthead said:

I'm not sure the sprint entirely worked. If, as Hamilton claimed, the Red Bull is superior, then all it did was confirm that and deny Hamilton and Mercedes the chance to come back in the pit stops. It also showed the hazards involved: Perez would not have binned the car in qualifying because the problem was caused by turbulence off the back of the car in front.

Giving more space for great stories like Russell holding a good position (before the pointless penalty) and Alonso making up five places off the start worked and was fun, but overall I don't think it shook things up as was the intent. Wolff made a good point that 17 laps was too long and maybe they should hold it to 10 laps to maximise excitement.

Certainly for a paying punter it adds more on-track action to the weekend and encourages people to attend three days rather than just two, which is good.

It was fun to watch but didn't really feel an essential addition to the weekend. I agree it perhaps wasn't different enough to an actual race, just shorter.

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2 hours ago, polishgenius said:
I do agree that maybe making it 10 laps and a true sprint would make more sense. By 17, it's less of a 'sprint' and more just... part of a race. 

One of the podcasts said it best: it's the race extended by 30% with an overnight red flag and then a standing restart.

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I think it's interesting that a harmless spin in the pitlane gets Bottas a penalty, a race incident with shared fault gets Russell a penalty, but when you rejoin the track with cars zooming past at full speed and force Gasly to move to avoid hitting you it's perfectly safe and you did everything you could to avoid any danger.

Some of the rules are wonky, but it does get rather ridiculous with the inconsistent enforcement. Either all of these things are equally dangerous or they are all equally safe. You can't cherry pick.

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16 minutes ago, The_Lone_Wolf said:

Hamilton Goat 

Tch, someone took a hint from the Schumacher playbook of crashing out the only one who is dangerous to his title. Only that it cost Schumacher the championship while ludicrously lucky Hamilton gets away with it.

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8 minutes ago, Toth said:

Tch, someone took a hint from the Schumacher playbook of crashing out the only one who is dangerous to his title. Only that it cost Schumacher the championship while ludicrously lucky Hamilton gets away with it.

Max should have defended the inside if he didn't want anyone to make a move, and he shouldn't have turned into Lewis once they were both turning in. Lewis was backing out at that point and if Max hadn't turned in they would have made it, maybe having to use some run-off for either of them but no crash.

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4 minutes ago, kungtotte said:

Max should have defended the inside if he didn't want anyone to make a move, and he shouldn't have turned into Lewis once they were both turning in. Lewis was backing out at that point and if Max hadn't turned in they would have made it, maybe having to use some run-off for either of them but no crash.

That's clearly not how the stewards saw it and not how I saw it either. Verstappen didn't defend, yes, he left 1,5 cars room for Hamilton to turn into. Hamilton then instead of taking the apex drove straight on to drive Verstappen out of the track exactly the same way as he later in the race did with Leclerc. Only difference is that Leclerc knew what happened to Verstappen and backed out while Verstappen stayed on the racing line daring Hamilton to pull away. Hamilton didn't back out of anything, which is exactly what caused the collision.

And having watched the scene a couple of times right now, let me just add thing: What a disgusting crowd there is cheering when Verstappen got brought to hospital. Fucktards everywhere.

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2 minutes ago, Toth said:

That's clearly not how the stewards saw it and not how I saw it either. Verstappen didn't defend, yes, he left 1,5 cars room for Hamilton to turn into. Hamilton then instead of taking the apex drove straight on to drive Verstappen out of the track exactly the same way as he later in the race did with Leclerc. Only difference is that Leclerc knew what happened to Verstappen and backed out while Verstappen stayed on the racing line daring Hamilton to pull away. Hamilton didn't back out of anything, which is exactly what caused the collision.

And having watched the scene a couple of times right now, let me just add thing: What a disgusting crowd there is cheering when Verstappen got brought to hospital. Fucktards everywhere.

Going into the corner the front wheels of Max and Lewis' cars are alongside each other, and when the collision occurs it is Lewis' front left tyre making contact with Max's rear right tyre. Unless magic occurred in the process, Lewis was backing out of the move in order for the cars to be in the position they were relative to each other when the collision happened. Max was clearly also turning into the corner which cut Lewis off.

If Max doesn't turn in, the collision doesn't happen at the point when it does.

If they have complete overlap when turning into the corner why is it on Lewis to back out instead of Max, and why is Max not at fault for turning in?

It was a race incident with shared fault, no penalty should be given. It's not the first time the stewards don't know their assholes from their elbows. Sainz drove perpendicular onto the track *into the path of Gasly* and got no penalty in the sprint race, yet we're supposed to treat their decision now as the word of God?

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Yeah, Hamilton was at fault there. There wasn't a massive amount in it, but he didn't get ahead and put his car in the wrong place. Split-second decision-making though, and clearly there was no Schumacher-style malice in it. There was a nontrivial chance that both of them would have been taken out by the impact as well. And ultimately it's a very dangerous corner to try to overtake on.

It does re-enliven the championship when it looked like Red Bull were walking it, though Bottas seems to be working on getting re-hired by Mercedes by being completely compliant to the team's needs (even offering his opinion of the crash, which he could see from behind, on team radio), though I'm not sure that's working when he's failing to match Hamilton's achievements on track; the team asked him to follow Hamilton through to catch Leclerc, but Bottas simply couldn't do that.

Race to forget for Perez though.

Edited by Werthead
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