Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 I'm a novice, but clearly Hamilton was at fault there. Why did he only get a ten second setback? If you cause a crash eliminating another racer, you should be out too, plus maybe a ban for the next race and damages paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I'm a novice, but clearly Hamilton was at fault there. Why did he only get a ten second setback? If you cause a crash eliminating another racer, you should be out too, plus maybe a ban for the next race and damages paid. He was not "clearly" at fault. It was a shared fault racing incident to begin with. Secondly they have regulations governing what kind of penalties they can award and what offense deserves what penalty. To get disqualified you have to cause some extreme intentional mayhem, to get a next-race ban it's the same thing unless it's automatically awarded by amassing enough penalty points in a 12 month period. Some offenses carry fines, but you never have to pay damages. They could have awarded a stop & go penalty if they wanted it to affect the current race more, but really they shouldn't have given him any penalty. But such are the stewards, no consistency at all in enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, kungtotte said: He was not "clearly" at fault. It was a shared fault racing incident to begin with. Secondly they have regulations governing what kind of penalties they can award and what offense deserves what penalty. To get disqualified you have to cause some extreme intentional mayhem, to get a next-race ban it's the same thing unless it's automatically awarded by amassing enough penalty points in a 12 month period. Some offenses carry fines, but you never have to pay damages. They could have awarded a stop & go penalty if they wanted it to affect the current race more, but really they shouldn't have given him any penalty. But such are the stewards, no consistency at all in enforcement. Verstappen's car was destroyed and Hamilton caused the crash. Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Verstappen's car was destroyed and Hamilton caused the crash. Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Yes, Verstappen's car was destroyed. No, Hamilton did not cause the crash. We don't rule fault by judging whose car was most destroyed. It frequently happens in other incidents that the driver at fault suffers worse damage than the car they shove off, so should we rule the victim at fault in those situations based on the damage to the respective cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 If every time there was a contact where one side could potentially be given the blame (because although I agree it's giveable, it's not clear in this case), the other driver was also DQ'd, we just wouldn't see overtaking anymore, because no-one would want to get close enough to risk it. This shit happens when you race. Even if it was Hamilton's fault, he clearly didn't do it on purpose, DQing him would be madness. You could argue the stop-go, sure, but at that point what's happening is you're strengthening the penalty because Hamilton is a frontrunner- since for a middle-pack guy the ten second penalty would be a completely race-changing penalty and a stop go would cripple him. And you can't adjust punishments for where the driver is in the race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 It was a dangerous move at the start of the race in which the leader was knocked out by his main competitor. That seems rather obvious to me. Sure collisions like that happen, but the context matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: It was a dangerous move at the start of the race in which the leader was knocked out by his main competitor. That seems rather obvious to me. Sure collisions like that happen, but the context matters. Only if you assume that Hamiltonn is so good a driver he can cause a crash knowing he will come off ok, and Max is fucked. If it had gone the other way the WC would be over already in all likelihood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 56 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Only if you assume that Hamiltonn is so good a driver he can cause a crash knowing he will come off ok, and Max is fucked. If it had gone the other way the WC would be over already in all likelihood. Doesn't that kind of prove my point though? Was the gamble not worth it if you're viewing things cynically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Toth said: Tch, someone took a hint from the Schumacher playbook of crashing out the only one who is dangerous to his title. Only that it cost Schumacher the championship while ludicrously lucky Hamilton gets away with it. No way to be sure it was intentional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 4 hours ago, The_Lone_Wolf said: No way to be sure it was intentional I mean, I'm with Werthead on this one. He certainly wasn't trying to intentionally cause a collision, but he was still trying to run off Verstappen from the racing line to aggressively force the overtake. Why else wouldn't he go for the apex? It's just that, well, apparently you shouldn't play chicken with Verstappen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Yeah but there's just a definite difference between making a move hoping your opponent backs out- where the fault ultimately lies in a misjudgement of whether it's reasonable to expect them to back out, and a suspicion that he might have had the thought that even if they clipped and both went out it might be worth it to make Verstappen more hesitant to do that in future- and what Schumi or Senna did - twice in Schumacher's case- which is just deliberately drive into their opponents to make sure they didn't get any points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Okay, sorry. I was probably a bit too cheeky with that comparison in my first post. I guess I was a bit salty after watching the cheers of the crowd and Hamilton congratulating himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Toth said: Okay, sorry. I was probably a bit too cheeky with that comparison in my first post. I guess I was a bit salty after watching the cheers of the crowd and Hamilton congratulating himself. Oh that's fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6649er Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 and I see that if the race had not been red-flagged, then Hamilton would have DNF'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 18 hours ago, 6649er said: and I see that if the race had not been red-flagged, then Hamilton would have DNF'd No suggestion I've seen of that. If the race had not been red-flagged, he'd have had to have done a nose change under safety car conditions and then done his 10-second penalty later on, which would have added more time. Whether that would have been enough to drop him behind Leclerc is unclear, but probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6649er Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Werthead said: No suggestion I've seen of that there are multiple reports of it all over the F1 news sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Here's one where Mercedes says as much: https://www.crash.net/f1/news/983437/1/mercedes-would-have-retired-hamilton-s-f1-car-without-red-flag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Vindication, even if I don't completely understand why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Bloody hell. So that allowed Hamilton's non-DNF streak, which I believe is now the longest in F1 history, to continue unabated. He hasn't retired since Austria 2018, sixty races ago. And he's only have 1 DNS since then (when he was out with COVID in Sakhir last year, which is the only DNS of his entire career, and the only race since Brazil 2006 not to feature him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Lando Norris also secured the record for most consecutive points finishes for a McLaren driver, beating out such drivers as Fernando Alonso and Mika Häkkinen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.