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Mrstrategy

Would the freys had supported tge Tully's against lannister in war of five kings if Hoster not sick?

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Would the freys had supported the Tully's against lannister in war of five kings  if Hoster not sick and is in charge of Riverland defenses instead of Edmure meaning the Riverlands armies don't get defeated as easily or would they still delay their support still Robb army arrive or still there a clear winner between tullies and lannisters?

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6 hours ago, The Hoare said:

The Tullys are a weak house. It's not safe to bet on them against the Lannisters.

 

But Tullys should have had full support of Arryns and Starks. Or combined forces of those 3 houses would have outgunned Lannisters. So Tywin was very lucky that Arryns stayed "neutral" during Wo5K.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

But Tullys should have had full support of Arryns and Starks. Or combined forces of those 3 houses would have outgunned Lannisters. So Tywin was very lucky that Arryns stayed "neutral" during Wo5K.

Didn't Tywin start his war, by having his men pose as bandits. This gave him a way out using plausible deniability.

Edited by sifth

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2 hours ago, sifth said:

Didn't Tywin start his war, by having his men pose as bandits. This gave him a way out using plausible deniability.

Yes he did. That's why Hoster sent men to KL with witnesses to at least get it on record that they strongly suspected the Mountain and soldiers from the westerlands. That allows them to respond in kind with backing from the crown, although parking an army near or in enemy territory (Goldentooth pass) is questionable enough. It was too small to prevent Jaime's army from sweeping through and (probably) too large / infantry driven to use as a harrying force.

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5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

But Tullys should have had full support of Arryns and Starks. Or combined forces of those 3 houses would have outgunned Lannisters. So Tywin was very lucky that Arryns stayed "neutral" during Wo5K.

Yes, but the question was If the Freys should've supported the Tullys before Robb's army arrived.

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On 6/6/2021 at 3:13 PM, Mrstrategy said:

Would the freys had supported the Tully's against lannister in war of five kings  if Hoster not sick and is in charge of Riverland defenses instead of Edmure meaning the Riverlands armies don't get defeated as easily or would they still delay their support still Robb army arrive or still there a clear winner between tullies and lannisters?

All kinds of things would have gone differently if Hoster was calling the shots in Riverrun. So who knows? It's like asking if Ned would still have been killed if Sansa had not opened his eyes to the incest.

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The Freys DID support the Tully's and Starks in the WOT5K. None of that "Late Walder Frey" nonsense. Walder committed thousands of his own troops, had his grandson as Robb's squire, and risked his own son's life (Emmon), and put the future of his entire house at risk.

I'm no fan of Walder Frey, but the guy made a deal and was honoring his commitment, right up until Robb broke the deal.

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On 6/7/2021 at 10:16 PM, The Hoare said:

The Tullys are a weak house. It's not safe to bet on them against the Lannisters.

 

Yes they’re weaker. A betting person would choose the Lannisters. But Walder is not lacking of honor. He would rather stay out of the conflict unless forced.  He did support the Starks even when the Lannisters had the stronger position.  The Starks were at his gates and were the greater threat at the time and had more to offer. 

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The Freys didn't even follow the Tullys to the Trident when Hoster was hale,healthy and a main man in the rebellion who had destroyed bannermen like the Goodbrooks. They turned up after the battle was over.

I don't think Hosters health would have any bearing on the 'late' Walder Frey. He would have acted exactly the same.

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Holster would need to get off from his imagined superiority and show respect to Walder. Walder is the better man in a way. 

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Verbally? Absolutely. Would they send their men into battle? I don't think so. They would wait for the outcome, or an opportunity.

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No. We are told time and time again they aren't trust worthy and they don't live up to their oaths. They didn't ride with the Tullys in Roberts rebellion. They have even less incentive now trying to battle Tywin the most feared man in the kingdoms not some crazy guy like Aerys. Also Robb only has the North with him. In the rebellion the North,East,some storm lander's and river lander's and he didn't head the call. Robs chances are much worse than Robert's especially since Rob is a kid in many people's eyea.

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I doubt he would have supported them. I honestly feel shocked the Frey's were allowed to keep as much power as they were after Robert's Rebellion.

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The short answer is "No."

The longer answer is that things would've been very different if Hoster was alive and well. Lysa would've been challenged, Edmure would've been checked, Robb would've been able to more effectively share responsibility, Catelyn would've been able to breathe. The overall defense of the Riverlands would've gone differently; Tywin might've proceeded with a little bit more guile. Instead of sending a loose cannon as recognizable and as dangerous as the Mountain, he might've sent someone more lowkey.

However, I don't envision Walder Frey being any different. He would have to be personally compelled to take action and he probably would've still been looking for an easy out or a something more beneficial to him.

Honestly, he might've even tried to betray the Stark-Tully cause even earlier. Why? Because he hated Hoster Tully.

1 hour ago, sifth said:

I doubt he would have supported them. I honestly feel shocked the Frey's were allowed to keep as much power as they were after Robert's Rebellion.

I'm honestly shocked that a lot of people were allowed to keep as much power as they had after certain situations.

For example, the Greyjoys. It's one of the few times I find myself fully agreeing with Cersei. I will die on the hill that Robert Baratheon should've -- at the very least -- removed Balon Greyjoy from power. I wouldn't have even had a problem with him levelling Pyke.

But alas...it just goes to show that Robert Baratheon was a good warrior but a bad king.

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