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SeanF
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That whole scene has basically all the elements for a worn out ‘breaking into someone’s home’ scene. I’m pretty shocked by it, which is why it felt so long I think.

I mean seriously, a barking dog, bringing a dog treat, she comes home early.. oh dear

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I liked that it showed us the after-effects of what Gus did, by having Werner killed. We see the loss his wife went through. And then to have Lalo (the other Cartel guy, Gus' counterpart) about to do the same to her...

And it showed us Lalo's patience matches Gus's patience - they are well-matched adversaries.

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I can see what @Heartofice means about the lenght / emptiness of some scenes. At some point, I thought that Esposito and Odenkirk have basically been carrying the showrunners all the show along. I mean, look at that scene where Gus is being scared as fuck by some cooking tools falling. It's just that, and it's still brillant! :D

Also, I have the feeling that all that Howard plan was just a waste of time.

Re: Kim not telling Jimmy about Lalo. Do you really think that Jimmy is that good at watching is back? :D 

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On 5/11/2022 at 8:45 PM, Heartofice said:

I understand it on a conceptual level. Execution wise though I was pretty disappointed it was so full of cliches 

Eye roll. 

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37 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I was quite happy with the scenes in Germany, in this episode.  They worked fine for me.

Yeah, same here. For me, that's the draw of the show, the way they delve into character so deeply.

I was just reading a book where Hitchcock talks about the scene where the detective comes into the Bates house in Psycho, and he's going up the stairs, and it's all in how the story is told.

Human beings are always going to be doing human being things, like going up stairs when they hear a noise, but telling a good story is all in the details, and this show excels at such things.

Edited by Le Cygne
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1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, same here. For me, that's the draw of the show, the way they delve into character so deeply.

Yes it is. But that is not what I'm talking about here.

I think there has been a criticism of the show since it started that Gilligan will often make a scene at least 20% longer than it needs to be, and it leads to episodes or points in the show where there is little actually happening. I think thats a pretty valid criticism and I certainly noticed it early on, that I could fast forward through minutes of the show without missing anything but long drawn out tracking shots. 

Last couple of seasons I don't think this has been such an issue, the show has been a bit tighter and the slower moments felt justified. 

My point is that Gilligan has a tendency to over indulge in those long slow, tracking scenes that just wander around and give you a sense of location or feeling. He either does it more than is necessary or he makes them over long. I'm sure others won't agree but I felt it with that other scene in this series where the movers are going through Sauls house and pull out all his stuff. It was a good scene, I liked it.. and then it kept going.. and going.. and going.. long past a time where I'd gotten the point. Did he need to do that? Probably not, if the scene loses peoples interest 2/3 of the way through then maybe there is a need to edit things down if you aren't providing any extra value by making it so long.

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Human beings are always going to be doing human being things, like going up stairs when they hear a noise, but telling a good story is all in the details, and this show excels at such things.

Again, this isn't what I'm talking about either. Lalo breaking into the house isn't an example of human beings doing human things. My problem is that its the exact opposite. It was a scene of over used movie cliches, but drawn out for as long as possible for minimum effect.

Honestly, it would be very difficult to have not seen a movie where the following sequence of events doesn't happen:

Character breaks into house
Nobody home
Dog Barks
Its ok because character has a treat for the dog
Character goes upstairs
Oh no! The owner comes home unexpectedly!! What a surprise!
The dog barks and runs after the intruder!
Home owner goes after the dog.
Home owner checks around the house.. oh no they are going to get attacked..
..no the room is empty!
Oh but look.. the window is open!!!

That stuff is beyond played out.. I must have seen that a dozen times in other movies.. maybe I even saw it in this show before, I can't remember. Maybe it would have been a bit more forgivable and less of an issue if it wasn't dragged out to try and make it extra tense. But it wasn't tense, not only because its packed full of cliches and tropes, but because the person in danger is a brand new character that the audience has little worry for.

So it's not about character moments. BCS does good character moments, its the tendency to drag out empty scenes way past their welcome, when they don't deserve it.

I really like the show, but that is certainly a flaw.

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1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, same here. For me, that's the draw of the show, the way they delve into character so deeply.

I was just reading a book where Hitchcock talks about the scene where the detective comes into the Bates house in Psycho, and he's going up the stairs, and it's all in how the story is told.

Human beings are always going to be doing human being things, like going up stairs when they hear a noise, but telling a good story is all in the details, and this show excels at such things.

I also enjoyed the bar scene.  It shows what a pleasant guy Lalo is, up till the point that he decides he'll have to kill you.  

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5 hours ago, SeanF said:

I also enjoyed the bar scene.  It shows what a pleasant guy Lalo is, up till the point that he decides he'll have to kill you.  

Yeah, I liked that, too. It set up the stakes of Lalo as an adversary to Gus, in case anyone missed that he's not a typical Salamanca. He can present a very different front to the world, just like Gus does in his restaurant, to the community.

And then by not killing Werner's wife in her home, that also showed this distinction. Lalo is a cold-blooded killer, but it's a very deliberate sort of thing on a situational basis, which is even scarier than with Tuco or the Cousins.

Also they are showing the victims, of Gus and Lalo and the drug cartel. Having the audience get to see what Werner's wife's everyday life is like now (lonely, at a loss, and now a potential victim, too) shows that this isn't just a game.

(I also liked that Lalo called the dog the man of the house, it was a nice touch that showed the loss of her husband yet again, as well as Lalo's ability to deceive. And I noticed people were afraid he'd kill the dog, too.)

I think the matter of redemption for Jimmy is in their minds, as they conclude his story. There have been several references to Fred from the travel bureau this season, too. And then there's the disapproval of his buddies at the courthouse.

If Jimmy is on a hero's journey and has lost his way, how does he find his way back? If he does at all. What becomes of the people like Fred's family, Werner's wife, and Wendy? We saw Spooge, and know where he's headed, too.

I think they want us to think about this.

Edited by Le Cygne
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36 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, I liked that, too. It set up the stakes of Lalo as an adversary to Gus, in case anyone missed that he's not a typical Salamanca. He can present a very different front to the world, just like Gus does in his restaurant, to the community.

And then by not killing Werner's wife in her home, that also showed this distinction. Lalo is a cold-blooded killer, but it's a very deliberate sort of thing on a situational basis, which is even scarier than with Tuco or the Cousins.

Also they are showing the victims, of Gus and Lalo and the drug cartel. Having the audience get to see what Werner's wife's everyday life is like now (lonely, at a loss, and now a potential victim, too) shows that this isn't just a game.

(I also liked that Lalo called the dog the man of the house, it was a nice touch that showed the loss of her husband yet again, as well as Lalo's ability to deceive. And I noticed people were afraid he'd kill the dog, too.)

I think the matter of redemption for Jimmy is in their minds, as they conclude his story. There have been several references to Fred from the travel bureau this season, too. And then there's the disapproval of his buddies at the courthouse.

If Jimmy is on a hero's journey and has lost his way, how does he find his way back? If he does at all. What becomes of the people like Fred's family, Werner's wife, and Wendy? We saw Spooge, and know where he's headed, too.

I think they want us to think about this.

Most of the Salamancas are rather stupid, relying upon fear to get what they want.  Or a bribe.  Or both.

Lalo is quite different.  A typical Salamanca would make crude advances to Werner’s wife, but he’s a gentleman. Yet, he can kill the Mexican couple he’s been sponsoring without a qualm.  No doubt he regretted it, but only in the way you’d regret having to put down a sick animal.

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7 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I'm sure others won't agree but I felt it with that other scene in this series where the movers are going through Sauls house and pull out all his stuff. It was a good scene, I liked it.. and then it kept going.. and going.. and going.. long past a time where I'd gotten the point. Did he need to do that? Probably not, if the scene loses peoples interest 2/3 of the way through then maybe there is a need to edit things down if you aren't providing any extra value by making it so long.

Yeah while I didn't have much of a problem with the Lalo breaking into the house scene, this scene annoyed me and is a good example.  The opening scene two episodes ago too - where we watch the couple/Gus' neighbors bike riding for way too long.  I think this has always been a weakness of the show, particularly in comparison to BB - the slow parts are much more often overly played out, unnecessary, and/or have little relevance to the plot.  BB was much tighter and focused, particularly by season 3.

Made my peace with that awhile ago, but I will admit it was frustrating to have a second "slow" episode in a row after the previous episode already served as taking a beat/palate cleanser.  With only eight episodes left I have a tendency to grow impatient and want them to stop dickering around with the precious little time left!

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23 hours ago, Ser Glendon Fireball said:

I can see what @Heartofice means about the lenght / emptiness of some scenes. At some point, I thought that Esposito and Odenkirk have basically been carrying the showrunners all the show along. I mean, look at that scene where Gus is being scared as fuck by some cooking tools falling. It's just that, and it's still brillant! :D

Also, I have the feeling that all that Howard plan was just a waste of time.

Re: Kim not telling Jimmy about Lalo. Do you really think that Jimmy is that good at watching is back? :D 

I thought that the dropped tools was a signal between Gus and Mike’s planted man in the kitchen

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