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Better Call Saul


SeanF
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12 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

I meant the part before that, when he's basically conning her into doing what he wants, which is taking another 2 years. They showed Jimmy trying to get her to settle previously, and then they showed Howard trying to get her to not settle.

They've flat out had someone observe in previous episodes, the lawyers want more money, so they drag these things out. And in the case of the elderly, two years is a long time, since many of them may not live that long.

So I noticed throughout this season they have been showing Howard being smarmy about this. I think they are trying to show that Howard's way of doing things is not so different than Jimmy's, although one is playing according to the rules.

(Who made up the rules? The Howards and Chucks of the world, and they don't seem to benefit the little person so much. That's what I think they showed in that season 5 episode about the scholarship, too. What Jimmy told the girl.)

So they showed Howard talks to her like a child, and puts her in the wheelchair when she doesn't want to be, and tells her two more years even though she says she wants it soon. He's not really thinking of her, and that's really a problem.

From a purely selfish POV (and I write this as a solicitor) I’d want to go for a quicker settlement, in order to get my fees.  Two more years means two more years’ overheads being paid out.  Lawyers are more often than not criticised for being too eager to settle.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

I meant the part before that, when he's basically conning her into doing what he wants, which is taking another 2 years. They showed Jimmy trying to get her to settle previously, and then they showed Howard trying to get her to not settle.

That's all season 3, right? Where Jimmy tried to get her to settle previously to get his cut of the Sandpiper Crossing settlement ASAP, and ruined her friendships until he felt bad about that and helped HHM get her to reverse course. And then he and Kim launch their campaign against Howard in large part to get Jimmy his cut faster, again, or at least that's what Kim says... though now they're nearly a year and a half after the settlement was rejeted, mediation seems unlikely to take more than a few months for a satisfying conclusion, and they're deciding to screw it up because... well, for the thrill of screwing Howard.

I don't think HHM was scamming anyone, but making the calculation that the class action (and the law firms) could earn substantially more than the lowball estimate, and that most of the clients would probably make it. (And they're right -- have they acknowledged that even one class action member has passed away since the settlement was rejected? I can't recall any reference to it.)

So, I don't know. AS to the wheelchair thing, that was showmanship, and IMO "all's fair in love and war." It wasn't endangering the mediation process.

 

 

Edited by Ran
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10 minutes ago, SeanF said:

From a purely selfish POV (and I write this as a solicitor) I’d want to go for a quicker settlement, in order to get my fees.  Two more years means two more years’ overheads being paid out.  Lawyers are more often than not criticised for being too eager to settle.

Well, they said it in this very episode. Cliff: "Why would Jimmy even do this. He's a profit participant, this [settling] means less money for him." That's typical of class action lawsuits (they bill the overhead).

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Quote

That's all season 3, right? Where Jimmy tried to get her to settle previously to get his cut of the Sandpiper Crossing settlement ASAP, and ruined her friendships until

Everything that's transpired in the Breaking Bad universe, that was the only time I was like "you fucking monster." Not saying that Gus, Lalo, Hector, Walt aren't monsters. But I had such a visceral reaction to Jimmy fucking with that old lady.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Ran said:

though now they're nearly a year and a half after the settlement restarted, mediation seems unlikely to take more than a few months for a satisfying conclusion

They've been playing up that they want this to drag out, despite it being in the best interests of the elderly to settle quickly, throughout the season, and in this very episode:

Irene: I'm just so glad this is all going to be over soon.

Howard: Things probably won't be over today... This is one very big and very important and very slow step towards justice. Full disclosure, we're probably looking at... what, Cliff?

Cliff: Oh I'd have to say 1 1/2 to 2 years minimum.

Howard: Of course, you're the class representative...

Irene: Oh no, I'm not going to do anything that you don't tell me to do.

Edited by Le Cygne
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Everything that's transpired in the Breaking Bad universe, that was the only time I was like "you fucking monster." Not saying that Gus, Lalo, Hector, Walt aren't monsters. But I had such a visceral reaction to Jimmy fucking with that old lady.

It was nice that he finally felt a pang of guilt and undid it... but then he just tried to get his settlement cut another way, and now we see the result of that... 

To look on him in Breaking Bad, even realizing that they are retconning things, well, he comes off looking terribly. He's so glib and happy go lucky, the shit he's pulled and lives he's destroyed in the course of Better Call Saul appear to have slid off him like water off a duck's back.

ETA: @Le Cygne

Ah, right. "A few months" was my mistake, forgot about that conversation. Even there, I don't know if I'd call it a scam. He said to Jimmy back in season 3 that the figure from Sandpiper Crossing was very much a lowball and that they calculated they could get a lot better if they just invested the time to mediate it out. Jimmy was not pushing for the settlement out of genuine concern for the elderly folk, he wanted his money ASAP.

Edited by Ran
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Yeah I recently rewatched breaking bad and was shocked just how shank happy he was.

Watched El Camino too. Something about the way Foster says something like "[Jessie] made your bed. As did your partner. As did your lawyer." Made me think that was set after whatever happens with Gene here, and that it ends very badly.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ran said:

Even there, I don't know if I'd call it a scam.

Well, I said conning her into doing what he wants, as in manipulating her. Howard was manipulating Irene. Jimmy was manipulating her, too.

Edited by Le Cygne
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16 minutes ago, Ran said:

It was nice that he finally felt a pang of guilt and undid it... but then he just tried to get his settlement cut another way, and now we see the result of that... 

Does Jimmy even need the money at this point?  When he first tried to force a settlement, he was underwater financially and unable to practice law, and so the settlement would have greatly helped him.

Now, though, he’s fresh off of getting a hundred grand from the Mexican cartels and is running what looks to be a fairly successful law practice that has people lined up outside every morning. 

Although, to be fair, the most recent push has mostly been with Kim leading the charge.  It’s just hard to make an argument that it’s still about getting Jimmy his cut when he no longer desperately needs it. 

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1 minute ago, briantw said:

Does Jimmy even need the money at this point?  When he first tried to force a settlement, he was underwater financially and unable to practice law, and so the settlement would have greatly helped him.

Now, though, he’s fresh off of getting a hundred grand from the Mexican cartels and is running what looks to be a fairly successful law practice that has people lined up outside every morning. 

Although, to be fair, the most recent push has mostly been with Kim leading the charge.  It’s just hard to make an argument that it’s still about getting Jimmy his cut when he no longer desperately needs it. 

Golden toilets are expensive! and that's before you add the toilet buddy.

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3 minutes ago, briantw said:

Does Jimmy even need the money at this point?  When he first tried to force a settlement, he was underwater financially and unable to practice law, and so the settlement would have greatly helped him.

Now, though, he’s fresh off of getting a hundred grand from the Mexican cartels and is running what looks to be a fairly successful law practice that has people lined up outside every morning. 

Although, to be fair, the most recent push has mostly been with Kim leading the charge.  It’s just hard to make an argument that it’s still about getting Jimmy his cut when he no longer desperately needs it. 

It's wasn't really about the money.  Kim wanted to fuck over Howard, and getting the settlement money [so she could continue to play judge/jury/executioner/savior with her poor clients] was the excuse.

 

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6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It's wasn't really about the money.  Kim wanted to fuck over Howard, and getting the settlement money [so she could continue to play judge/jury/executioner/savior with her poor clients] was the excuse.

 

Right. But it's part of how she sold it to Jimmy. Brian is right that by S5 the money logic wasn't really there... but still they go after it. It's not exactly that Jimmy corrupted Kim... but he did unleash her, not realizing the traumas she carried that would make her go even further than he would.

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7 minutes ago, Ran said:

Right. But it's part of how she sold it to Jimmy. Brian is right that by S5 the money logic wasn't really there... but still they go after it. It's not exactly that Jimmy corrupted Kim... but he did unleash her, not realizing the traumas she carried that would make her go even further than he would.

Unleash is the perfect word.  For a long time I did blame Jimmy for corrupting Kim, and it was fantastic how the show proved to me that this was the wrong reading of their characters.  Jimmy touched something in Kim that she had locked the door on, and now, here we are, where they reversed roles and she is the instigator and Jimmy the reluctant follower.  

The only endings I can now imagine for Kim that will seem realistic is she dies [I doubt it] or as someone already theorized, she goes to buy a vacuum cleaner and never resurfaces until maybe the very end at the Cinnebon. 

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9 minutes ago, Ran said:

Right. But it's part of how she sold it to Jimmy. Brian is right that by S5 the money logic wasn't really there... but still they go after it. It's not exactly that Jimmy corrupted Kim... but he did unleash her, not realizing the traumas she carried that would make her go even further than he would.

Kind of reminds me of the relationship between Wendy and Marty in Ozark where Marty is the reason they're in the shit to begin with, but Wendy is the one who truly thrives there. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Well, they said it in this very episode. Cliff: "Why would Jimmy even do this. He's a profit participant, this [settling] means less money for him." That's typical of class action lawsuits (they bill the overhead).

I’d be terrified to attempt Kim’s and Jimmy’s scams.

and yes, that episode packed a punch.

Edited by SeanF
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I was surprised Howard died but as soon as I saw the candle flicker the first time I knew Lalo was there. I guess he sees Saul as a cockroach since he appears to have decided to go after him when he saw it scurrying in the sewer.

My guess is Kim's conscience kicks in and she can't handle the guilt and splits. Either the vacuum cleaner route or just leaves Saul the old fashioned way. I can't see them killing her, IMO that would destroy Saul and he wouldn't be the Saul we know in BB.

Will be interesting to see how they handle the Howard mess. Does he just disappear? Not sure how they can explain him being killed there without exposing Lalo.

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Quite the finale.  I haven't rewatched the whole series in a while, but IIRC this show has quite the habit of meandering for a while only to deliver outstanding finale/climax episodes.

Don't have much else to add, except there's one thing I'm wondering about Lalo's calculus as depicted in the episode - at least based on how I understand it.  Wanted to share to see if I'm understanding things right (perhaps a consequence of getting high before watching the episode)...

So Lalo is surveilling the laundromat and makes his video to Eladio saying he is gonna go in, kill all the guards, and deliver proof.  Then he calls Hector and - as I understood it - realizes Fring has the phone tapped while he's put on hold.  Then he calls back to play Mike into reacting and showing his hand.

Ok, got all that.  What I'm wondering is, why does Hector's phone being tapped dissuade him from continuing to pursue his apparent/stated plan this entire season of providing proof - especially since he's so close to that goal and just succeeded at pulling all but Tyrus' team off the laundromat?  The cockroach thing was a nice touch, and obviously we will get plenty of/immediate explanation for what exactly he wants out of Jimmy and Kim, but I hope that question is addressed.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, DMC said:

just succeeded at pulling all but Tyrus' team off the laundromat? 

If you check the scene again, Mike leaves with two guys... and Tyrus arrives with two guys, replacing them. And we know that there are more guards (the guy he told Eladio about was not part of Mike's group). So basically his hope of pulling more men off the laundromat failed. Hence his "Michael" remark, I suppose, recognizing that Mike was too smart to just run off with all the security, and the look of dejection that followed it before he saw the cockaroach. And now he has all of Fring's men on high alert because they know he's alive and probably in the area.

Edited by Ran
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3 minutes ago, Ran said:

Hence his "Michael" remark, I suppose, recognizing that Mike was too smart to just run off with all the security, and the look of dejection that followed it before he saw the cockaroach.

Ok, yeah, remembering the scene that makes sense now and I didn't put it together before, thanks. 

(Of course, I'd like to check the scene again but the amc+ on my cable won't enable fast forwarding until like a week after an episode comes out.  Grrrr!!!)

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55 minutes ago, DMC said:

Quite the finale.  I haven't rewatched the whole series in a while, but IIRC this show has quite the habit of meandering for a while only to deliver outstanding finale/climax episodes.

Breaking Bad was the same way.  A lot of episodes where not much happened that were still good enough because of great writing, acting, and cinematography, and then occasional insane episodes where tons of shit happens all at once.

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