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Better Call Saul


SeanF
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1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Did he really though? We all know that if he wanted to Jeffy's lawyer could go the DA and say look he did this... but if I give you a really big fish can I get immunity? They would love to be the ones to get the Cartel lawyer.

It was a rare turn in the series that struck me as false. Pulling the MAD card the way he did, I feel that it is an uncharacteristically emotionally unintelligent thing to do for Jimmy. Putting myself in the cabbie's position, I'd probably be pissed that my cool new cartel lawyer friend actually set me up. I'd be more inclined to spill my beans to the cartel or the cops. He should have framed it more as a warning, like he was concerned with them.

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

@Veltigar man I don't know if it was a good thing or a bad thing but here it goes.  When you mentioned the last scene being Jimmy in a jail cell I immediately got flashback to the Seinfeld finale, except it's slipping Jimmy the jail house lawyer/com working with inmates to get favors.

I'm going to turn this into a confessions thread now, but I have never seen Seinfeld :worried: So I don't know whether that's a favorable comparison to make ;) 

2 hours ago, Ran said:

I enjoyed it as well. I think people are very stuck on what's happening "now" and not really thinking about the fact that "now" is already determined -- only the "Gene" story is truly revelatory because the destination is still unknown to us. The Saul Goodman material is excellent and it adds depth to the character and his origin, but it's not the ultimate end of the story.

@Veltigar I'm of similar mind, at least that Jeff ended up blabbing to his ABQ friends and that comes back to bite Jimmy/Saul/Gene in the ass. I'm not sure where exactly he'll end up or if that particular image of him in jail with a visit from Kim is right... but maybe? It's as good as anything else I can think of.

Is there anyone from Breaking Bad or earlier seasons of Better Call Saul left alive that could fill that "bad crowd from Albuquerque" description? I agree that Gene's story is the most revelatory part of the story, but alas our time is limited now, so it would be weird if some random goons do Saul in right?

The jail ending is something that came up to me, but I have no actual clues that I can point to. I feel like Jimmy getting off scot free to a fresh start would not gel with the story they have been telling us, but I also think the very bleak Walter White ending should not befall him. I also don't think there is any chance that we have seen the last of Kim.

So based on that wishful thinking/analysis I'm thinking how they could get some sort of resolution in there that avoids both extremes. The jail imagery, but with Kim visiting Jimmy (or being his lawyer at his trail) and rekindling their relationship is about the best I can think off. Most optimistically, we have a Chicago sunroof type of situation where Kim has the Chuck role and Jimmy's cover is not blow, but that's a bit too on the positive side I suppose.

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I think you guys are expecting too much from the "bad crowd from Albuquerque." He's a sketchy guy who we knew moved from Albuquerque to Nebraska. His mom blames his problems on "negative influences" and not her son himself. I think they were just giving a reason for his move and the suggestion that maybe Walt's meth had helped fuck up his life. 

The threat to Gene isn't from criminals, it's from the law. There's no need or time to bring in this new group of shady people to give him problems. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

I'm going to turn this into a confessions thread now, but I have never seen Seinfeld :worried: So I don't know whether that's a favorable comparison to make ;) 

Basically they ended the series with the gang watching a crime and commenting on it but doing nothing about it (the whole premise of the show), then getting tried in court for that, all the past times in the series where they were horrible people comes back to haunt them in the form of witnesses. Then the last scene the four of them are in a cell and Jerry and George start talking about the buttons on a t shirt, which goes all the way back to Ep 1 the same conversation about really nothing. A nice call back.

People hated that it ended like that but to me it was perfect, I mean here they are being the same people they always were. Just like if Slipping Jimmy / lawyer Jimmy / Saul Goodman / Gene, turns back to slipping Jimmy in the jail.

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3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I think you guys are expecting too much from the "bad crowd from Albuquerque." He's a sketchy guy who we knew moved from Albuquerque to Nebraska. His mom blames his problems on "negative influences" and not her son himself. I think they were just giving a reason for his move and the suggestion that maybe Walt's meth had helped fuck up his life. 

The threat to Gene isn't from criminals, it's from the law. There's no need or time to bring in this new group of shady people to give him problems. 

 

I agree, I think the bad group thing was just a way to show us how he knew who Gene was.  The biggest threat to Gene though is himself.

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1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Basically they ended the series with the gang watching a crime and commenting on it but doing nothing about it (the whole premise of the show), then getting tried in court for that, all the past times in the series where they were horrible people comes back to haunt them in the form of witnesses. Then the last scene the four of them are in a cell and Jerry and George start talking about the buttons on a t shirt, which goes all the way back to Ep 1 the same conversation about really nothing. A nice call back.

People hated that it ended like that but to me it was perfect, I mean here they are being the same people they always were. Just like if Slipping Jimmy / lawyer Jimmy / Saul Goodman / Gene, turns back to slipping Jimmy in the jail.

Curb Your Enthusiasm did a pretty hilarious play on the Seinfeld ending too.

 

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2 hours ago, RumHam said:

I think you guys are expecting too much from the "bad crowd from Albuquerque." He's a sketchy guy who we knew moved from Albuquerque to Nebraska. His mom blames his problems on "negative influences" and not her son himself. I think they were just giving a reason for his move and the suggestion that maybe Walt's meth had helped fuck up his life. 

Ah, the bolded I didn't think off, but it makes a lot of sense.

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

The threat to Gene isn't from criminals, it's from the law. There's no need or time to bring in this new group of shady people to give him problems. 

 

It might not be bad people from New Mexico that do him in, but perhaps the law follows the cabbie after looking into his former associates and that's how they get to Jimmy.

 

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6 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

The next episode is titled

  Reveal hidden contents

breaking bad 

 

Imagine that it's another Gene episode and he reverts to full Saul after getting a taste of the criminal life again. I'd respect their trolling immensely.

11 hours ago, dbunting said:

People hated that it ended like that but to me it was perfect, I mean here they are being the same people they always were. Just like if Slipping Jimmy / lawyer Jimmy / Saul Goodman / Gene, turns back to slipping Jimmy in the jail.

I don't know, that feels a bit bleak to me. For example, I don't believe lawyer Jimmy (and up until now Gene) fit in that row. I think they are different from the Slipping Jimmy/Saul Goodman dimensions of Jimmy's character in their criminal leanings.

In my reading of the show, Jimmy has always had the con artist him in, but this version of him is only expressed when the right set of environmental pressures is exerted on him. His character is essentially epigenetic in nature.

If Chuck had reciprocated his love and if Kim and he had not gotten themselves involved in a folie-à-deux race to the bottom in the latter seasons or if he had just been a tad luckier, I think Jimmy could have been an outstanding member of the community. That is what makes him so tragic I reckon, because he could have done better for himself and everyone around him at the same time.

To then throw him in the joint where he goes full scam artist or having any other ending that sacrifices Jimmy for the sake of a full transition to Saul, well that would be the bleakest endnote to the Giliverse I can imagine. There are other characters who did not get their just desserts (Howard, Hank and Mike chief amongst them), but Jesse's ending was positive and that off Walt was at least somewhat redemptive. 

Obviously this is a personal preference and I know other people will either not have this same reading or they have this reading but no problems with a bleak ending. We'll just have to see what they pull out of their hat.

Edited by Veltigar
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21 hours ago, dbunting said:

Did he really though? We all know that if he wanted to Jeffy's lawyer could go the DA and say look he did this... but if I give you a really big fish can I get immunity? They would love to be the ones to get the Cartel lawyer.

You're right that it doesn't help Jimmy if Jeffy gets caught for a major crime and tries to negotiate. It should stop Jeffy from trying to rat out Jimmy for reward money, though, and possibly intimidates him if he's caught for a small crime.

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10 hours ago, Veltigar said:

Imagine that it's another Gene episode and he reverts to full Saul after getting a taste of the criminal life again. I'd respect their trolling immensely.

I don't know, that feels a bit bleak to me. For example, I don't believe lawyer Jimmy (and up until now Gene) fit in that row. I think they are different from the Slipping Jimmy/Saul Goodman dimensions of Jimmy's character in their criminal leanings.

In my reading of the show, Jimmy has always had the con artist him in, but this version of him is only expressed when the right set of environmental pressures is exerted on him. His character is essentially epigenetic in nature.

If Chuck had reciprocated his love and if Kim and he had not gotten themselves involved in a folie-à-deux race to the bottom in the latter seasons or if he had just been a tad luckier, I think Jimmy could have been an outstanding member of the community. That is what makes him so tragic I reckon, because he could have done better for himself and everyone around him at the same time.

To then throw him in the joint where he goes full scam artist or having any other ending that sacrifices Jimmy for the sake of a full transition to Saul, well that would be the bleakest endnote to the Giliverse I can imagine. There are other characters who did not get their just desserts (Howard, Hank and Mike chief amongst them), but Jesse's ending was positive and that off Walt was at least somewhat redemptive. 

Obviously this is a personal preference and I know other people will either not have this same reading or they have this reading but no problems with a bleak ending. We'll just have to see what they pull out of their hat.

"If you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention"..   sorry but that felt appropriate lol.  Do I think he ends up in jail, no, I was just riffing off what you had mentioned earlier. I am trying not to formulate an ending in my head, that way I don't get disappointed when my fanboy plan doesn't happen.

The preview with the car at the crossroads in the middle of no where is a sign enough for me that we will see him make a life choice, all that's left is to tell us which way he goes. The title of the next episode also heavily hints to this. Or just who may be in it I guess.

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13 hours ago, dbunting said:

"If you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention"..   sorry but that felt appropriate lol.  Do I think he ends up in jail, no, I was just riffing off what you had mentioned earlier. I am trying not to formulate an ending in my head, that way I don't get disappointed when my fanboy plan doesn't happen.

The preview with the car at the crossroads in the middle of no where is a sign enough for me that we will see him make a life choice, all that's left is to tell us which way he goes. The title of the next episode also heavily hints to this. Or just who may be in it I guess.

I wouldn't exactly call my ending happy though ;) Just not as philosophically bleak :) But we'll see what we can do in the future

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Character is destiny.

My probably wrong prediction is we will see Kim 1 or 2x in the Gene timeline, but I doubt they will meet again.  JimmySaulGene will go to prison? Death seems too bleak. I can't see a 'happy' ending with him just being free.  But, what do I know.

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Anybody else have any predictions?  I can't believe this show is almost over.  I was SO skeptical about BCS, but then, I also refused to watch BB for the first few seasons because I thought its premise was too stupid to be believed.  VG has made me a believer.

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Interesting episode. I liked last week's, but I was kind of bored in much of the first half, at least after Francesca left. After an episode of slowly watching Gene pull off the theft last week, another slow con seemed overkill. And then the first big flashback scene with Walt and Jesse just seemed like fan service to me.

But then it all came together in the second half, with that great montage of cons, the Mike and Saul scene, and two versions of Jimmy making truly terrible decisions. After last week I thought there was a possibility this could have a happy ending. Now though... No way.

My major questions are about what in that phone call tipped Jimmy over the edge, and how exactly Kim's going to come back into this. I'm guessing that we'll at least get that phone call from her point of view next week, this time with audible dialogue.

Edited by Caligula_K3
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