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Better Call Saul


SeanF
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I'm not watching until the seasons is over.  I just don't want to see this stuff.

 

Spoiler

I guess I always knew Nacho was doomed, but I really wanted him to find a way out.  He is/was even more deserving of redemption than Jesse Pinkman.  Jesse turned to crime out of stupidity and boredom and threw away all of his upper middle class privilege.  Nacho never had that choice and he was also always smarter and more in control than Jesse.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:
Spoiler

He is/was even more deserving of redemption than Jesse Pinkman.

 

Spoiler

Not only is this clearly objectively true just comparing their motivations (or lack thereof), but Nacho is also much more conscientious.  I thought it almost strained credulity that he repeatedly expressed concern for the innocent people at Lalo's compound, even after the fact.  It's like, dude c'mon, you gotta know they're dead.  It actually was one of the only times I can remember when Nacho is almost willfully naive - whereas Jesse was quite a bit.

Jessie conscientiousness is emphasized as well, but quickly thinking about it it's pretty much always isolated to children - the kid of the methheads that stole the ATM, Brock, Drew.

I think the difference is Jessie is just more likeable.  He's got that boyish innocence and charm that engenders sympathy even when you know it shouldn't.

 

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Interview

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Quote

 

AVC: Mike very much did want to save Nacho. Do you think the loss of Nacho, especially after Gus made Mike kill Werner, is what solidified Mike breaking bad?

MM: That’s a good question. I think we should ask Jonathan Banks that question. As a viewer, to me, I know that Mike tells Jesse in Breaking Bad, “I had a guy, and you’re not that guy.” And according to some fans, they think that Mike is referring to Nacho. But those are just fan theories that I read on the internet. You’d have to ask Vince and Peter the details of those questions. But our fans are incredible.

I don't see how the guy in question could be Nacho, who never worked for Mike. But now I am wondering who it is?

 

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11 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

 

Kim Wexler can fuck off as far as I am concerned, I'm all out of sympathy for her. 

She too, could have had it all, money, success, professional accolades, and instead is choosing, willfully to be a sleazy, destructive criminal.  I guess character is always destiny in Vince G's world.  

I expect that her choice will utlimately be self-destructive.

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That was a fine episode.  Nacho deserved better, but he still went out like a boss.  Hector was just pathetic at the end, emptying a gun into his corpse.

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Note the total number of bullets Hector shoots.

Spoiler

Eight, one for every one who witnessed the scene. A last shot happens as credits role, for Mike. And of course, as Mando noted in interviews, every single one of those men are dead by the time BB closes.

 

Edited by Ran
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6 hours ago, SeanF said:

I expect that her choice will utlimately be self-destructive.

Yes, but what a change, when everyone expected that Kim would be out of Jimmy's life because he would do one scam too many, not until late last season did the idea that either Kim would destroy herself or that somehow it would be her own actions on the dark side that would send her out of Saul's life.  I am now actively rooting that she does get what is coming to her, after years of wanting her to save herself from Jimmy.  That's quite a character evolution.

Is there anyone in the Vince Gilligan universe who doesn't pay for their sins?  He went pretty easy on Jesse and gave him the end everyone wanted him to get, but it was still at quite a cost, and no one else got anything close to a happy ending.  I guess you could envision that Sky and the kids will end up happy with Walt's millions, I was never really sure about that.  Walt basically destroyed Sky and I can't see she would ever fully rebound from what they did to her sister.

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I think I hoped that Nacho's papa would have evolved at some point from his naive worldview, to where he saw that Nacho was trying to save his life, and going to the police would not save him.

It's the stuff of tragedy, but leaves them without that closure. This way, not knowing the truth, his father doesn't have his illusions shattered and yet... he should know the reality that his son had to face.

(I guess they may be setting something up to mirror what Mike went through, in that the father will blame himself for not listening to his son? Nacho was trying to tell him but he wouldn't listen.)

Edited by Le Cygne
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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Yes, but what a change, when everyone expected that Kim would be out of Jimmy's life because he would do one scam too many, not until late last season did the idea that either Kim would destroy herself or that somehow it would be her own actions on the dark side that would send her out of Saul's life.  I am now actively rooting that she does get what is coming to her, after years of wanting her to save herself from Jimmy.  That's quite a character evolution.

Is there anyone in the Vince Gilligan universe who doesn't pay for their sins?  He went pretty easy on Jesse and gave him the end everyone wanted him to get, but it was still at quite a cost, and no one else got anything close to a happy ending.  I guess you could envision that Sky and the kids will end up happy with Walt's millions, I was never really sure about that.  Walt basically destroyed Sky and I can't see she would ever fully rebound from what they did to her sister.

Skylar would likely be going to jail for a few years.  I remember one US attorney being interviewed who suggested she'd get about five years. 

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We for sure are going to see Nacho’s dad again. Mike didn’t keep that fake id for nothing. He will probably have a heart to heart with papa and convince him that his son was really trying at the end. He may have to hide when Hector wants to strike back after realizes he was dosed with the placebo after pushing in on the family business.

Edited by Morpheus
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10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The phone call to his dad pretty much signposted what was going to happen, but the call itself really choked me up. 

Same here.

I do wish he'd shot Juan Bolsa through the head before killing himself, though.

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5 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I guess you could envision that Sky and the kids will end up happy with Walt's millions, I was never really sure about that.  Walt basically destroyed Sky and I can't see she would ever fully rebound from what they did to her sister.

Yeah even if Gretchen and Elliot do get the money to Skyler, I don't see how that makes up for what Walt to did to that family between Hank's death and destroying the sisters' relationship.

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

Skylar would likely be going to jail for a few years.  I remember one US attorney being interviewed who suggested she'd get about five years. 

I mean, it's a fictional universe.  It's plausible she could've cut a deal in exchange for the location of Hank and Gomez's bodies.

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Walt visits Skylar and we see the state of her life, I don't remember getting the impression she was under any legal threat, just broke. But my memory of Breaking Bad is poor.

I realized last night that Kim basically doomed Nacho when she gave that speech to Lalo about not having anyone he could count on in his organization. If she doesn't make him realize he needs to depend on Nacho, Nacho never gets dragged to Mexico and the assassins need to find another way over the wall.

Edited by RumHam
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