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The Great Unwashed

U.S. Politics: Pooch Been Screwed

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2 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Seriously what is this guy's deal? Is all about the presumed power?

I don't know.  Occam's razor suggests either whomever he relies upon the most to get reelected doesn't want him to support it or he actually thinks supporting the bill will hurt him electorally.  But his behavior since becoming the pivotal vote has often been quite confounding.  Quite possible it's just gone to his head.

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1 minute ago, DMC said:

I don't know.  Occam's razor suggests either whomever he relies upon the most to get reelected doesn't want him to support it or he actually thinks supporting the bill will hurt him electorally.  But his behavior since becoming the pivotal vote has often been quite confounding.  Quite possible it's just gone to his head.

Is he even going to run again though?

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3 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Is he even going to run again though?

I think he definitely wants to at least keep that option open right now, yes.  Which means you behave as if you are.

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8 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Is he even going to run again though?

Probably why I’ll never personally be a powerful politician or CEO - but I really don’t get people wanting to continue working til they drop dead. Manchin is 73, he’s up for re-election in 2024 when he’ll be 76 for a 6 year term that would bring him to 82 yrs old if he is re-elected and completes it. I mean, what the fuck! Big caveat here is that once Manchin does hang it up we can probably expect WV to raise up an MTG level nutter to the Senate so maybe Manchin really is doing us a favor by being a pain in the ass.

But anyway, I genuinely like what I do for a living. It has good perks, it interests me, I like my coworkers, and I make a decent living. Yet I’ll be 37 in a couple of weeks and since I turned 30 or so I often think about: how can I get out of working every day as quickly as possible? I don’t know if I will be successful but I’m actively trying to retire before 60. If I live to be Manchin’s current age, I hope that I have been retired for more than a decade and definitely not doing whatever I can to make sure I get to work for nine more years. 

Don’t people have hobbies or stacks of unread books to get to!? Unpersued creative interests or gardening to hone? Christ, Joe, take up whittling or fly fishing or something, spend some time with the grandkids.

 

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13 minutes ago, S John said:

Probably why I’ll never personally be a powerful politician or CEO - but I really don’t get people wanting to continue working til they drop dead.

Well, I suppose you could treat the office like Trump and just tweet all day.

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Just now, DMC said:

Well, I suppose you could treat the office like Trump and just tweet all day.

It did cross my mind that elected positions might not actually be all that much work, depending on the person.

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I am surprised you guys are not talking about the fact Trump had Barr subpoena phone records and data from Adam Schiff and the House Intelligence committee aides to track down leaks. They subpoenaed Apple and put a gag order on Apple so Apple couldn't reveal what was happening. Two sitting members of the House Intelligence Committee, back in 2017 and 2018.

I know I have repeatedly said over the last 5 years that I didn't think anything Trump did could shock me and then I constantly got shocked. Holy crap, what an abuse of power! They subpoenaed not only data from Schiff's phone but from his family members, including his children. Minor children! This from Trump and the gang who screamed loud and long about "the deep state" and how they had to turf out career civil servants because they were too political.

People should be screaming about this.

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2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

People should be screaming about this.

Steve Bannon's idea of "flood the zone with shit" worked. There's just so much fucked up stuff that happened the last 4 years that people just start tuning it out. And the electoral consequences of it all basically got baked in by late spring 2017 and never shifted again.

But yes, this is yet another extremely fucked up thing that happened.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, S John said:

 

But anyway, I genuinely like what I do for a living. It has good perks, it interests me, I like my coworkers, and I make a decent living. Yet I’ll be 37 in a couple of weeks and since I turned 30 or so I often think about: how can I get out of working every day as quickly as possible? I don’t know if I will be successful but I’m actively trying to retire before 60. If I live to be Manchin’s current age, I hope that I have been retired for more than a decade and definitely not doing whatever I can to make sure I get to work for nine more years. 

 

Well, I turn 47 in a few weeks, and let me assure you that feeling only gets worse...and I also generally enjoy my career...

6 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I am surprised you guys are not talking about the fact Trump had Barr subpoena phone records and data from Adam Schiff and the House Intelligence committee aides to track down leaks. They subpoenaed Apple and put a gag order on Apple so Apple couldn't reveal what was happening. Two sitting members of the House Intelligence Committee, back in 2017 and 2018.

I know I have repeatedly said over the last 5 years that I didn't think anything Trump did could shock me and then I constantly got shocked. Holy crap, what an abuse of power! They subpoenaed not only data from Schiff's phone but from his family members, including his children. Minor children! This from Trump and the gang who screamed loud and long about "the deep state" and how they had to turf out career civil servants because they were too political.

People should be screaming about this.

I'm atill trying to learn a bit about it, as I'm still not clear what these leaks are supposed to pertain to...

Edited by Jaxom 1974

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9 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Well, I turn 37 in a few weeks, and let me assure you that feeling only gets worse...and I also generally enjoy my career...

I'm atill trying to learn a bit about it, as I'm still not clear what these leaks are supposed to pertain to...

From the Globe & Mail in Toronto.

Quote

The records of at least a dozen people tied to the committee were seized in 2017 and early 2018, including those of Representative Adam Schiff, then the panel’s top Democrat and now its chairman, the Times said.

The paper cited unnamed committee officials and two other people briefed on the inquiry for the report.

Prosecutors under Jeff Sessions, the first attorney general in Trump’s Republican administration, were seeking to find the sources behind media reports about contacts between Trump associates and Russia, the Times said.

“Ultimately, the data and other evidence did not tie the committee to the leaks, and investigators debated whether they had hit a dead end and some even discussed closing the inquiry,” the paper said.

Apple turned over only metadata and account information, not photos, emails or other content, the Times said.

The Justice Department also seized Apple data from the accounts of committee aides and family members, the Times said. It did not name any other member of the House beside Schiff.

William Barr, attorney general in Trump’s latter years in office, revived the investigation, it said.

Schiff said in a statement to Reuters that the Justice Department had informed the committee last month that the investigation was closed.

“I believe more answers are needed, which is why I believe the Inspector General should investigate this and other cases that suggest the weaponization of law enforcement by a corrupt president,” Schiff said.

In a statement to Reuters, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat, called the news “harrowing” and said she supported Schiff’s call for an investigation.

The Times said the Justice Department “secured a gag order on Apple that expired this year, according to a person familiar with the inquiry, so lawmakers did not know they were being investigated until Apple informed them last month.”

The Justice Department and Apple did not immediately respond to Reuters requests for comment.

 

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So...they were conducting a Witch hunt, as it were...?

Abuse of power to discover who was feeding information to the press about contact with Russia.   I'm catching up.

Yet what's actually gonna happen?  Sadly not much I'm afraid.  

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I cannot relate to all this retirement talk. I love my job, I’d keep doing it if I won the lottery tomorrow. I worry about getting old and being *unable* to do my job. My retirement plan is death unless they let me take walkins in hell. I bet a lot of politicians love the power and influence, perhaps even believe that nobody is better suited to it and the world needs them.

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21 minutes ago, Fury Resurrected said:

I cannot relate to all this retirement talk. I love my job, I’d keep doing it if I won the lottery tomorrow. I worry about getting old and being *unable* to do my job. My retirement plan is death unless they let me take walkins in hell. I bet a lot of politicians love the power and influence, perhaps even believe that nobody is better suited to it and the world needs them.

It's a hell of a drug.

But really we do have the means for everyone to retire much earlier than currently expected, if they chose to do so. No one is saying you have to stop doing what you love, but people shouldn't have to work until they're near death just to make basic ends meet. Make the golden years golden again! And start them a lot earlier! :P

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How much work does a congressperson  actually do though if their staff does most of the bill writing and such? it seems like they just debate about policies which we're all doing for free.

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2 hours ago, Darzin said:

How much work does a congressperson  actually do though if their staff does most of the bill writing and such? it seems like they just debate about policies which we're all doing for free.

Raise money, make appearances, run for office. Lather, rinse, repeat.*

*For many - some, like AOC do work in and on behalf of their community.

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3 hours ago, Darzin said:

How much work does a congressperson  actually do though if their staff does most of the bill writing and such? it seems like they just debate about policies which we're all doing for free.

It varies, wildly. Some get heavy into constituent work; others actually do become experts in certain committee areas and do real work crafting legislation themselves; some do truly try to provide oversight to the executive branch; leadership themselves are crazy busy.

But then there are also plenty that do no work besides fundraising and media appearances.

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11 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

So...they were conducting a Witch hunt, as it were...?

Abuse of power to discover who was feeding information to the press about contact with Russia.   I'm catching up.

Yet what's actually gonna happen?  Sadly not much I'm afraid.  

I see this morning that Eric Swalwell was the other Intelligence Committee member who’s phone records were handed over by Apple. However, now it appears 100 accounts were handed over and it may be that all the members of the Intelligence Committee were investigated.

CNN is showing a clip from May 1, 2019, at a Senate hearing where Kamala Harris specifically asked Barr twice (he asked her to repeat the question) if then-president Trump had asked him to investigate anyone. Barr pointedly refuses to answer the question, probably to avoid perjuring himself. 
 

Will there be consequences? I hope there are hearings about this and it all gets exposed. I hope some heads roll somewhere. I thought this stuff was illegal.

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People who have physically unstrenuous jobs and who are stars in their field often never want to retire. 

If you are a U.S. Senator, you have to a certain extent reached "star level" in the US political system. And that of course is way more true of someone in Manchin's position who's getting all this attention for being the ultimate "swing vote" in today's Senate.

Plenty of famous actors and actresses never retire until they get dementia or major physical disabilities. And university and college professors are another group where lots of the "stars" never want to retire and develop the idea that somehow they are indispensible. Here is an article by a University of Vermont professor (who if you read the page about him on that university's site is surely a "star" within his institution) about why he's still working at age 80. I think the most relevant quote is:

Quote

“I believe it is my moral responsibility not to retire, because I am still incredibly effective at age 80 as both a teacher and scholar.”

I think people like Manchin (and Dianne Feinstein or Chuck Grassley) may well have convinced themselves that they are indispensible to the political system in the way Robert J. Nash has convinced himself he's irreplaceable on the University of Vermont faculty.

https://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2019/06/12/professor-who-has-taught-more-half-century-explains-why-he-hasnt-been-willing

And personally I am really, really happy I retired as a university professor last September 1 at age 69. But the only place I'm a star is within The American Name Society, not exactly a powerhouse among academic organizations.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Follow the donations…

Indeed. Didn't the Chamber of Commece recently, and suddenly, start to donate to him again?

Is there any chance that Manchin either

a) has always secretly been a Republican (and not a particularly left-wing one at that), but somehow needed to run as a Dem?(No idea why, in such a red state, that should have been necessary, but...)

b) wants to switch to Republicans, e.g. to run for governor or

c) both?

I do have a feeling (based on nothing) that at least one senator will switch, but Sinema seems more logical.

Edited by Mindwalker

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10 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said:

I cannot relate to all this retirement talk. I love my job, I’d keep doing it if I won the lottery tomorrow. I worry about getting old and being *unable* to do my job. My retirement plan is death unless they let me take walkins in hell. I bet a lot of politicians love the power and influence, perhaps even believe that nobody is better suited to it and the world needs them.

I've met people that feel similiar to you.  You're not alone.  I agree with you regarding the love of power and influence, not to mention the potential for enemies to go after you once you're out of power.

Me personally I'd walk away from my job in a heartbeat and never look back tomorrow if I didn't need the money.

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