LØkI, a TVA/Disney+ series [SPOILERS]

[Argonath Diver]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

I'm no expert on incest, but I think dating your interdimensional self is worse than dating your sister.

I mean, we all looked into the mirror once, right?!

But yeah, it's pretty damn weird that a Disney property is definitely leaning toward a literal Narcissistic lust.  Same parents and identical genertics and all that?  Eww. I thought at that first hand-hold that they'd immediately pivot to a platonic, we-are-one kind of vibe. I wonder if they'll hand wave it away somehow in ep 5.

[DaveSumm]

3 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

I mean, we all looked into the mirror once, right?!

But yeah, it's pretty damn weird that a Disney property is definitely leaning toward a literal Narcissistic lust.  Same parents and identical genertics and all that?  Eww. I thought at that first hand-hold that they'd immediately pivot to a platonic, we-are-one kind of vibe. I wonder if they'll hand wave it away somehow in ep 5.

I’m gonna keep being annoyed about this if no-one else does; they don’t appear to be the same person at all. I’d say ‘sister’ is the more accurate relationship (if indeed she has the same parents) given that she’s a daughter of his father and mother. She was dubbed ‘Loki’ by her adoptive parents and now the TVA have decided that means they’re The Same Person. 

[felice]

53 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I’m gonna keep being annoyed about this if no-one else does; they don’t appear to be the same person at all. I’d say ‘sister’ is the more accurate relationship (if indeed she has the same parents) given that she’s a daughter of his father and mother. She was dubbed ‘Loki’ by her adoptive parents and now the TVA have decided that means they’re The Same Person. 

Genetically siblings, and socially effectively strangers (they certainly didn't grow up together, and while they have more or less the same childhood up to a point Sylvie barely remembers, they've had very different lives since then). But mystically, they're both God of Mischief, which complicates matters. Is that just a title, or does it make them the same person on some other level?

[DMC]

The show, via Owen Wilson, went full bore into how narcissisticly creepy it was.  I don't really see the point in trying to rationalize against that.

[mormont]

7 hours ago, DMC said:

Well, in that regard, her name on the MCU fandom wiki is Sylvie Laufeydottir, which strongly suggests she was the daughter of Laufey.  Either way, just saying on my pyramid of incest, yourself beats your sister.

Couldn't you argue it's really more like a particularly complicated form of masturbation?

[DMC]

22 minutes ago, mormont said:

Couldn't you argue it's really more like a particularly complicated form of masturbation?

Sure, it is.  I'd just replace/add creepy for complicated in that sentence.  Ultimately, it doesn't matter whether Loki and Sylvie are genetically identical, it's the fact they both thought they were then fell in love with each other anyway.

[john]

I doubt they thought they were genetically identical. They don’t look alike.

I dunno, wanting to fuck a female version of yourself is not as creepy as wanting to fuck your sister, imo.

Mobius’ comment was about the ultimate exercise in narcissism, not the incest taboo.

[DMC]

18 hours ago, john MCG said:

I doubt they thought they were genetically identical. They don’t look alike.

I suppose "genetically identical" is obviously the wrong term to use considering one is male and one is female.  But, basically, they both thought the other was different versions of themselves.  And while it's not necessarily concerning "the incest taboo," Mobius was very clear how creepy he thought it was.  Whether it's more or less creepy than a sibling...isn't really an argument I care to go into detail about.  

[john]

5 hours ago, DMC said:

Whether it's more or less creepy than a sibling...isn't really an argument I care to go into detail about.  

Ok, sure. I mean, you brought it up.

Might have missed something but I did not get the impression Mobius thought it was creepy. He was more wearily amused than anything.

I did wonder how them sparking an attraction creates a nexus event at that part of the timeline so significant that it’s detectable even in an apocalyptic event. This suggests the very idea of Lokis being attracted to each other is so outrageous it splits off a timeline almost at a 90 degree angle. But it seems like it would be a perfectly reasonable turn of events so that makes no sense unless that particular circumstance is highly inimical to whatever end the timekeepers/tva controller is working towards.

[DMC]

14 minutes ago, john MCG said:

Might have missed something but I did not get the impression Mobius thought it was creepy. He was more wearily amused than anything.

Ok he doesn't call it creepy but he does call it sick, twisted, and demented.

[felice]

1 hour ago, john MCG said:

I did wonder how them sparking an attraction creates a nexus event at that part of the timeline so significant that it’s detectable even in an apocalyptic event. This suggests the very idea of Lokis being attracted to each other is so outrageous it splits off a timeline almost at a 90 degree angle.

I assume it's that they become willing to trust each other and work together that makes the difference, rather than anything inherently romantic. And presumably that would have lead to them being able to somehow survive without TVA intervention - maybe combing their powers exponentially increases their telekinesis to the point where they can ward off a falling moon? Either that, or they're somehow vital to the sacred timeline, so their deaths becoming certain is what tiggers the massively divergent timeline?

[ithanos]

2 hours ago, felice said:

Either that, or they're somehow vital to the sacred timeline, so their deaths becoming certain is what tiggers the massively divergent timeline?

Great point, never considered this angle. I looked at it as an Enchantment Under the Sea moment about to happen, creating a line to a future Marty McLoki.    

Looking to the nest episode, if we don't see where Mobius ended up then I hope we get a finale scene with Loki arriving at Zihuatanejo to see his friend.
 

[DMC]

11 minutes ago, ithanos said:

if we don't see where Mobius ended up then I hope we get a finale scene with Loki arriving at Zihuatanejo to see his friend.

Get busy living, or get busy dying.

[RumHam]

On 7/4/2021 at 3:32 AM, DaveSumm said:

I’m gonna keep being annoyed about this if no-one else does; they don’t appear to be the same person at all. I’d say ‘sister’ is the more accurate relationship (if indeed she has the same parents) given that she’s a daughter of his father and mother. She was dubbed ‘Loki’ by her adoptive parents and now the TVA have decided that means they’re The Same Person. 

I'm also very curious about this but expect it to just be handwaved. The crocodile Loki also raises so many questions about what makes a Loki, especially if he doesn't talk. 

Now I'm gonna talk about rumors for the next Spider-Man:

If it's true that the Rami and Webb spider-men are returning that just muddies the waters further. Like why would one Peter Parker be so much older and have organic webs? How is it that most details of their lives are different but they all have aunt mays and uncle bens and MJs (I actually forget if Garfield's parker knew an MJ.)

At that point, in what sense are they the same person and not just people with the same name who fate dictated would get bit by a radioactive spider? 

[Rhom]

8 hours ago, RumHam said:

I'm also very curious about this but expect it to just be handwaved. The crocodile Loki also raises so many questions about what makes a Loki, especially if he doesn't talk. 

Now I'm gonna talk about rumors for the next Spider-Man:

 

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If it's true that the Rami and Webb spider-men are returning that just muddies the waters further. Like why would one Peter Parker be so much older and have organic webs? How is it that most details of their lives are different but they all have aunt mays and uncle bens and MJs (I actually forget if Garfield's parker knew an MJ.)

At that point, in what sense are they the same person and not just people with the same name who fate dictated would get bit by a radioactive spider? 

 

 

On the subject of Garfield’s Spider-Man.  There was an MJ cast for ASM2 (Shailene Woodly) and she recorded a scene.  But it was cut from the movie.

[Corvinus85]

On 7/4/2021 at 2:32 AM, DaveSumm said:

I’m gonna keep being annoyed about this if no-one else does; they don’t appear to be the same person at all. I’d say ‘sister’ is the more accurate relationship (if indeed she has the same parents) given that she’s a daughter of his father and mother. She was dubbed ‘Loki’ by her adoptive parents and now the TVA have decided that means they’re The Same Person. 

I am curious if their temporal aura is the same, which is linked to their soul. Maybe that's why the TVA says they're the same.

[Frey family reunion]

On 7/1/2021 at 6:24 PM, williamjm said:

I liked the reference to the Norse myth of Loki and Sif's hair.

Agreed that was a nice touch.  But it did bring back one of my bugaboos with the Marvel Comics version of Norse mythology.  It was bad enough that Thor was a blond and Loki had black hair,  but making Sif a brunette always annoyed me.  I mean the one defining trait Sif had in Norse mythology was her golden hair.  

[Rhom]

5 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Agreed that was a nice touch.  But it did bring back one of my bugaboos with the Marvel Comics version of Norse mythology.  It was bad enough that Thor was a blond and Loki had black hair,  but making Sif a brunette always annoyed me.  I mean the one defining trait Sif had in Norse mythology was her golden hair.  

< Drops hand grenade into topic >

Listen… if Superman can be a black actor then Sif can be a brunette…

 

[briantw]

6 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Agreed that was a nice touch.  But it did bring back one of my bugaboos with the Marvel Comics version of Norse mythology.  It was bad enough that Thor was a blond and Loki had black hair,  but making Sif a brunette always annoyed me.  I mean the one defining trait Sif had in Norse mythology was her golden hair.  

Heimdall also wasn't black in Norse mythology, but that didn't stop them from casting Stringer Bell.  And to be honest, that kind of stuff doesn't really bother me since the Marvel Comics version of Thor is its own take on Norse mythology.  They've taken enough creative liberties with the source material at this point that I don't really see the point of complaining about any individual one.

[john]

Norse mythology is just based on the visits of alien Asgardians right? Clearly, they just got a few things wrong.