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Corvinus85

LØkI, a TVA/Disney+ series [SPOILERS]

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

They say there is definitively one glorious timeline and none others, and they stop alternate timelines from propagating. They distinctly say there is no multiverse, and they are dedicated to stopping the multiverse from coming into existence (assuming the Dr. Strange 2 title and the Spider-Man: No Way Home leaks aren't massive foilers, we can assume they ultimately fail).

I'd imagine this show is setting up how exactly the TVA fails.  Evil Loki (I'm not convinced that it's actually him yet, as I called it the second the kid pointed to the stained glass figure with the Loki horns and that just seems too easy) appears to be collecting those reset devices.  There has to be a reason.

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3 minutes ago, briantw said:

I'd imagine this show is setting up how exactly the TVA fails.  Evil Loki (I'm not convinced that it's actually him yet, as I called it the second the kid pointed to the stained glass figure with the Loki horns and that just seems too easy) appears to be collecting those reset devices.  There has to be a reason.

It's MEPHISTO!!! :laugh: :leaving:

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5 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

It's MEPHISTO!!! :laugh: :leaving:

If we keep guessing that every time eventually we'll probably be right!

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17 minutes ago, briantw said:

If we keep guessing that every time eventually we'll probably be right!

It's been Marvel's ploy to make us cry wolf on WandaVision, so we wouldn't dare do it for this one. Stay on target, people!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Werthead said:

They say there is definitively one glorious timeline and none others, and they stop alternate timelines from propagating. They distinctly say there is no multiverse, and they are dedicated to stopping the multiverse from coming into existence (assuming the Dr. Strange 2 title and the Spider-Man: No Way Home leaks aren't massive foilers, we can assume they ultimately fail).

I think they’ve muddled their terminology a little and it’s gonna get confusing. Remember, the multiverse already exists in Doctor Strange 1 - it consists of the dark dimension, and the mirror dimension to name two. Dimensions don’t sound like they count as a multiverse, but I rewatched the movie recently and the Ancient One definitely refers to these as the multiverse.

So there’s a dimensional multiverse, but no ‘timeline’ multiverse as it stands, just the sacred one. Maybe they’ll introduce Everettian Many-World Quantum Mechanics in Ant-Man 3 just to really fuck us over.

Thinking about it, it’d be a cool ending to the series if Bad Loki turns out to be this Loki a little further along, and he’s discovered some nefarious motivations to this ‘sacred’ timeline and he’s trying to burn the whole thing down and let the timeline run wild. It’d be a great on-ramp to the Doctor Strange movie. Their Phase 4 use of the term multiverse lines up perfectly right now, it’s a shame Doctor Strange 1 is a bit incongruous with it.

Edited by DaveSumm

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4 hours ago, sifth said:

So how do you fix the fact that there is now a timeline where Thanos vanishes from 2014? Because that's what I was talking about and the Avengers did not fix that, lol

The way they’ve set things up, they can call whatever they like the ‘sacred timeline’. If Endgame was all ‘supposed to happen’ than anything can happen. So to answer your question, the TVA cut that branch. To answer any follow up questions; the TVA fixed that too. They fixed everything that the show decides isn’t the sacred timeline.

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Have not read topic for fear of spoilers... but is there one episode or two available today?

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I wonder where What If...? and the watchers come into all this. Because that sure seems like a show about looking at various timelines where things turned out different. 

7 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Have not read topic for fear of spoilers... but is there one episode or two available today?

One hour long episode. 

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1 hour ago, briantw said:

I'd imagine this show is setting up how exactly the TVA fails.  Evil Loki (I'm not convinced that it's actually him yet, as I called it the second the kid pointed to the stained glass figure with the Loki horns and that just seems too easy) appears to be collecting those reset devices.  There has to be a reason.

I think it’s more likely it is Loki but he’s not that evil (as @DaveSumm suggests). I mean, the TVA is clearly a fucking evil organisation who are murdering who knows how many people for the crime of being late for work or otherwise living their lives in a straightforward way as far as they’re concerned. If Loki wants to go a little John Wick on them who could blame him.

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

The way they’ve set things up, they can call whatever they like the ‘sacred timeline’. If Endgame was all ‘supposed to happen’ than anything can happen. So to answer your question, the TVA cut that branch. To answer any follow up questions; the TVA fixed that too. They fixed everything that the show decides isn’t the sacred timeline.

This is the Doctor Who Time Lord (and later Time War) argument. Also Red Dwarf's Reality Patrol (though that's one dude, and he dies in Season 5), which I maintain should be the TVA's proper name.

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1 minute ago, Werthead said:

This is the Doctor Who Time Lord (and later Time War) argument. Also Red Dwarf's Reality Patrol (though that's one dude, and he dies in Season 5), which I maintain should be the TVA's proper name.

Yea, but time travel doesn't really make sense in either of those series, which is probably for the best when you think about it, since time travel is paradoxical, by it's very nature.

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1 minute ago, sifth said:

Yea, but time travel doesn't really make sense in either of those series, which is probably for the best when you think about it, since time travel is paradoxical, by it's very nature.

Doctor Who is rooted in the predestination paradox, so Time Lords can travel to places and help out people because they're meant to do that. So when the Doctor shows up to help save the people of Hitler VII from the Intransigent Implacablons, there isn't a timeline where he shows up and one where he doesn't, there's just the one where he does. Where things go completely balls up is if he tries to cross his own time stream (i.e. he deliberately takes the TARDIS back to Hitler VII to try to change things when we didn't see that happen first time around) which causes 1) the universe to start imploding or 2) horned reaper aliens to show up and start munching on random passers-by.

They're reasonably consistent about that across the entire series, but do take a delight in having "sanctioned changes" (the Time Lords show up to fuck around where they shouldn't) and the chaos of the Time War or the Eternal War to justify any changes to the continuity they care to explain away.

Red Dwarf is deranged though, with a very strong possibility that any given season takes place in a parallel universe to every other season, so fair enough.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Doctor Who is rooted in the predestination paradox, so Time Lords can travel to places and help out people because they're meant to do that. So when the Doctor shows up to help save the people of Hitler VII from the Intransigent Implacablons, there isn't a timeline where he shows up and one where he doesn't, there's just the one where he does. Where things go completely balls up is if he tries to cross his own time stream (i.e. he deliberately takes the TARDIS back to Hitler VII to try to change things when we didn't see that happen first time around) which causes 1) the universe to start imploding or 2) horned reaper aliens to show up and start munching on random passers-by.

They're reasonably consistent about that across the entire series, but do take a delight in having "sanctioned changes" (the Time Lords show up to fuck around where they shouldn't) and the chaos of the Time War or the Eternal War to justify any changes to the continuity they care to explain away.

Red Dwarf is deranged though, with a very strong possibility that any given season takes place in a parallel universe to every other season, so fair enough.

Ohh, both shows have their illusions of time travel rules.................they just constantly break them whenever the writers come up with an idea for a cool plot point. Like I said, time travel is paradoxical by it's very nature.

Edited by sifth

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I really hope this turns into Hannibal with super hero/villains.

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That was just damn solid.

I'm going to refrain from theories for now, until at least one more episode.  But I'm hoping we see Imortus and/or Kang.

 

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So the TVA are the bad guys right? Showing up as jackbooted thugs, assaulting someone for no reason and arresting him for something someone else did, generally acting in a way that makes just having attacked New York Loki look sympathetic (even if I feel like he's acting slightly out of character for where he is in the timeline, I can chalk that up to being caught kind of flat footed. Besides Hiddleston's a damn fine actor.), wiping out who knows how many trillions of people.

Anyway that was a lot of fun, looking forward to more.

Owen Wilson was great.

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Shit I just realized that this means the TVA will wipe out the alternate timeline where Steve goes back to Peggy.

So massive downer. Great.

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