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The White Worm


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Now that I am thinking about it, many  of the religions of the Free Cities seem to be forms of worship to the Shadow Moon god of death.

Saagael: in Gaelic sgail means "shadow" or "eclipse" and Saagael is one of the gods worshiped in Lys, and children are sacrificed to it, and it is faceless (a moon with no face), and in George's Only Kids are Afraid of the Dark, Saagael is the Prince of Darkness that wants to create a Long Night that never ends. 

And Saagael is one of the Seven cosmic deities in the Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr, that haunts the night sky and feeds on souls

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The sky was very dark, but she could see clearly, for against the darkness a shape was moving. Light poured from it, and the dirt in the courtyard and the stones of the battlements and the gray pennants were all bright beneath its glow. Puzzling, Sharra looked up.

Something looked back. It was taller than the mountains and it filled up half the sky, and though it gave off light enough to see the castle by, Sharra knew that it was dark beyond darkness. It had a man-shape, roughly, and it wore a long cape and a cowl, and below that was blackness even fouler than the rest. The only sounds were Laren’s soft breathing and the beating of her heart and the distant weeping of a mourning-bird, but in her head Sharra could hear demonic laughter.

The shape in the sky looked down at her, in her, and she felt the cold dark in her soul. Frozen, she could not move her eyes. But the shape did move. It turned and raised a hand, and then there was something else up there with it, a tiny man-shape with eyes of fire that writhed and screamed and called to her.

(it is a hooded man in the sky, the Hooded Wayfarer is one of the gods of death)

[Bakkalon and Naa-Slas ("the pit" in gaelic) also haunt the night sky in that story]

 

Church of Starry Wisdom is worshiping something in the night sky, and it was founded by the Bloodstone Emperor, who caused the Long Night, when the Lion of Night came forth in all his wroth--when the Lion of Night eclipsed the sun.

 

Panthera is worshipped in Lys, is that the same as the Lion of Night / black cat / black panther / shadow cat?

 

They worship the Black Goat in Qohor, and make daily blood sacrificed to it, and sacrifice children to it in times of need.  As already stated, the Black Goat is a "shadow" from interstellar space from Lovecraft, and have obvious satanic connotations.

Pentos (pentagram?) what do they worship there?  Another satan reference?

 

Boash (one of the two pillars of freemasonry is Boaz, the other is Jachin) is worshipped in Lorath, and the priests would blindfold themselves to open their third eye and achieve higher wisdom--during the Long Night, everyone is blindfolded.  Mysterious mazes that lead to the underworld are a weirwood cave metaphor.

 

Trios (sounds like "Tree") eats dwarves, and then they are reborn.  Little people are consumed by a tree and are reborn after death.

 

House of Black and White, combines are the death cults into one.  Temple is a symbolic weirwood cave, skulls in niches, high priest is a skeleton with the white worm.   All men must die, and all men must serve.  In that order, first you die, then you serve in the undead army.  They preach the complete negation of the self. 

 

What else?

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1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

Not that it matters very much but, for the record, that is not my quote:)

Oh, I see the confusion.  I thought I was responding to Odin's Beard.  Woops.  Sorry.

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18 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Come on... be more honest:

"You have wings," Bran pointed out.

You be more honest.  Bran saying the TEC has wings has no bearing on the TEC knowing how it appears in Bran's dream.  The TEC doesn't say "yes" or acknowledge it in any way.

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Maybe you do too.

The TEC simply points out that maybe Bran has wings, too, because he's trying to teach Bran to "fly".  This isn't the direct evidence or proof you want it to be.  And "fly" in this conversation doesn't necessarily mean only with literal wings.  I think It's referencing mystical flight within the dream, too. 

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Bran felt along his shoulders, groping for feathers.

This also has absolutely no bearing on the TEC knowing he appears as a crow in Bran's dream.

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There are different kinds of wings, the crow said.

Yep, I don't think "fly" in this conversation necessarily means only with actual wings but I believe references other types of flight (i.e. mystical, etc.)  That's why I believe TEC points out there are different kinds of wings to Bran when he sees him "groping" for literal wings on his back after the TEC suggests that maybe Bran has wings in the dream, too.  It's not literal.

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The Crow knows it has wings with feathers, it knows how it appears. It is completely disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

It's completely disingenuous to state this as fact.  Where does it say the crow knows it has wings with feathers?  Where does it say the crow knows how it appears?  Your bias has blinded you.  You're working backwards from your conclusion.

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It is a fact that the crow knows it was a crow in the falling dream.

Prove this.  It is not fact at all.

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And a fact that Bloodraven didn't know what Bran meant when asked directly if he was the three eyed crow.

Exactly.  Because he doesn't know how he appears in Bran's dreams and I believe the author has provided pretty obvious symbolism that a member of the NW (a "crow") who has mystical powers (has "opened his third eye") would logically appear as a Three-Eyed Crow in Bran's dreams.  Now, that's what I believe from what I've read and my interpretation.  However, unlike you, I will not present my opinion as being fact and say anyone believing otherwise is wrong. 

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Bloodraven isn't the crow from Bran's dream, fact.

You haven't proven this at all.  And you can't.

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22 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

You be more honest.  Bran saying the TEC has wings has no bearing on the TEC knowing how it appears in Bran's dream.  The TEC doesn't say "yes" or acknowledge it in any way.

The crow does acknowledge it:

"You have wings," Bran pointed out.
Maybe you do too.
Bran felt along his shoulders, groping for feathers.
There are different kinds of wings, the crow said.
 
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The TEC simply points out that maybe Bran has wings, too, because he's trying to teach Bran to "fly".  This isn't the direct evidence or proof you want it to be.  And "fly" in this conversation doesn't necessarily mean only with literal wings.  I think It's referencing mystical flight within the dream, too. 

So, to be clear...

You are honestly suggesting that after Bran calls the crow a crow, says it has wings, feels for wings on his own back, and the crow responds that "there are other kinds of wings", that it doesn't know it's appearing as a crow? lol

I'm here to discuss the text, if you are just going to deny the words on the page then there is no reason for us to interact further.

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1 minute ago, Prince of the North said:

Because he doesn't know how he appears in Bran's dreams

I think Mourning Star has you beat on that point.

Bloodraven appears as a man with a wooden face to Melissandre in her fire vision. 

Bran has a weirwood that observes him in his dreams:

"At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind. When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly."

If that was really Bloodraven, why would he appear as a crow and a tree in the same dream?

and when he meets Bloodraven:

"I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell."

Notice that George made the dream sentence ambiguous just to troll us.  He really makes it sound like he is merely an observer.  If he had been the 3ec, he might have said something like "I was that crow that pecked open your third eye, and woke you up from the coma."

And the fact that his cave is filled with ravens instead of crows is a hint that he is not The Crow.

Bran likes it better when the torches are put out, because then he can pretend it is the 3ec talking to him, not a grisly talking corpse.

I do note that Bran appears to Jon as a tree in his dream, but to Mel as a boy with a wolf's face, was Bran wedded to the Tree yet when she saw that vision?

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12 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

"At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind. When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly."

Just taking note that the weirwood is looking at it's own reflection in a pool of water. 

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1 hour ago, Mourning Star said:

I would add that that the apple being the fruit of the tree of knowledge in Christian mythology is well known, but apples also play an important role in classic greek and norse myth as the food of immortality, in the story of Bran the Blessed of Irish Mythology, and King Arthur (Avallon is the Isle of Apples).

Now that you are pointing out the Clarence Crabb and Crab stew connections to the tree, it does make me wonder if there is a crab apple connection!

Yes, I think the God's Eye is Avalon, and the apples of immortality is the weirwood paste. 

The first book of the Wheel of Time is called The Eye of the World, the Aes Sedai (pronounced "eyes sed eye") are the counterpart of the sithi/sidhe and the CotF.  It is an all-female organization of witches and their leader is the Amyrlin (~Merlin). and their base of power is the White Tower on the island of Tar Valon (~Avalon) and the island is shaped like an eye.  (and the island appears to have tentacles spreading from it in the form of roads and the river).  There are caves under the White Tower

The river that flows around Tar Valon is called the Eirinin and eirin means "eye tooth" in gaelic, and Tar Valon is on the Eastern bank of the river and Dragonmount--called the Dragon's Fang--is on the Western bank, and they were both created in the same event (when the Dragon erupted out of the ground).  The two sides of the yin-yang are the White Flame of Tar Valon (female side) and the black Dragon's Fang (male side) divided by a sinuous line (the river).  The eye is next to the tooth.  The Eirinin river flows around Tar Valon and down to Tear--and tears come out of eyes.  

Underneath the White Tower on Tar Valon is an entrance to the Arianrhod (the silver wheel) dreamworld.  I already mentioned that tThe irish tale of Caer Arianrhod is of a castle that gets launched into space by a wizard and becomes the constellation Arianrhod. 

 

Here is something rad, in the Silmarillion, Avallone is an island next to where the Valar lived, the island gets ejected from the surface of the Earth and into space.

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23 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Yes, I think the God's Eye is Avalon, and the apples of immortality is the weirwood paste. 

The first book of the Wheel of Time is called The Eye of the World, the Aes Sedai (pronounced "eyes sed eye") are the counterpart of the sithi/sidhe and the CotF.  It is an all-female organization of witches and their leader is the Amyrlin (~Merlin). and their base of power is the White Tower on the island of Tar Valon (~Avalon) and the island is shaped like an eye.  (and the island appears to have tentacles spreading from it in the form of roads and the river).  There are caves under the White Tower

The river that flows around Tar Valon is called the Eirinin and eirin means "eye tooth" in gaelic, and Tar Valon is on the Eastern bank of the river and Dragonmount--called the Dragon's Fang--is on the Western bank, and they were both created in the same event (when the Dragon erupted out of the ground).  The two sides of the yin-yang are the White Flame of Tar Valon (female side) and the black Dragon's Fang (male side) divided by a sinuous line (the river).  The eye is next to the tooth.  The Eirinin river flows around Tar Valon and down to Tear--and tears come out of eyes.  

Underneath the White Tower on Tar Valon is an entrance to the Arianrhod (the silver wheel) dreamworld.  I already mentioned that tThe irish tale of Caer Arianrhod is of a castle that gets launched into space by a wizard and becomes the constellation Arianrhod. 

 

Here is something rad, in the Silmarillion, Avallone is an island next to where the Valar lived, the island gets ejected from the surface of the Earth and into space.

I have to be honest, I really didn't like the wheel of time... so while I get the references I don't find much value in them (or at least I won't be much help discussing).

The Simarillon, and Tolkien in general, on the other hand I think we pretty clearly can see influenced ASoIaF, and I'm certainly a fan.

And since @LynnS mentioned the Brooding Weirwood looking into the pool in the Winterfell Godswood (which can be paralleled to the Norse Well of Mimir perhaps?), I always loved the song of durin, which starts:

The world was young, the mountains green
No stain yet on the Moon was seen
No words were laid on stream or stone
When Durin woke and walked alone
He named the nameless hills and dells
He drank from yet untasted wells
He stooped and looked in Mirrormere
And saw a crown of stars appear

 

Stain on the moon - moon cracking like an egg?

nameless hills and dells, streams and stones - nameless gods of the wood?

And mirrormere - the black pool?

And the crown of stars?

We look up at the same stars, and see such different things. The King's Crown was the Cradle, to hear her tell it

I have long suspected that Bloodraven believes he should have been king, and perhaps he still does. I think that is what he broods over, the perceived wrongs done to him.

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3 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

And since @LynnS mentioned the Brooding Weirwood looking into the pool in the Winterfell Godswood (which can be paralleled to the Norse Well of Mimir perhaps?), I always loved the song of durin, which starts:

My basic point is that weirwood knows what it looks like, sees it's own reflection in the pool of water.  And yes, I think Bran is looking at Tree-Brynden in the same way that Jon sees Tree-Bran at the Skirling Pass.  So, I'm not sure that BR is the 3EC or that he doesn't know how he appears to Bran.  What I do think is that the 3EC is coming to Bran deliberately in disguise.  The identity of the crow is being held back from Bran for some reason.  I'm reminded of Rob telling Bran that he doesn't know how much he should tell Bran about what is going on.  He's not sure that he is old enough to know certain things.   But I do think that to take on the identity of a crow, certain powers are necessary; like warging and skinchanging.  Someone with a 3rd eye.

Durin's Song is interesting because the Seven Stars of the Faith fashion a crown for their King Hugor.  Tyrion, (the dwarf lord) calls himself after Hugor of the Hill.  Not a coincidence. :)

     

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22 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Brooding Weirwood looking into the pool in the Winterfell Godswood (which can be paralleled to the Norse Well of Mimir perhaps?),

The Black Gate weirwood door is based on Emil Doepler's painting of Odin at Mimir's Well  Tree roots in a well, with a giant pale face.

The world tree Yggdrasil has three main roots that goes to three wells, Urd~Gods Eye (where the norns live), Hvelgermir~Winterfell,("boiling, bubbling spring" Winterfell's geothermal hot springs) and Mimirsbrunnr~Bloodraven's cave, which is reached by going through the Black Gate.  (also, fun to note that the Black Gate is the entrance to Mordor)

There is also a reference to Nastrond ("corpse shore"), being the crypts under Winterfell.  Because there the dragon Niddhoggr is imprisoned and gnaws at the roots, and where wolfish murderers (Brandon), adulterers (Lyanna), and oathbreakers (Ned) are buried.  That is Hel's abode, and Catelyn/Stoneheart is Hel.  Interesting to note that Cat's red hair turns bone white, she is a symbolic weirwood and when she dies her heart turns to Stoneheart. (heart-tree, get it?)

 

Fun fact: while I am thinking about Cat, tulle means "flood" in gaelic, and in hindi tula means "a pair of scales; to weigh as a test of guilt or innocence" or tulai means "to weigh"   and tul means "bright red color"

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2 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

I have to be honest, I really didn't like the wheel of time... so while I get the references I don't find much value in them (or at least I won't be much help discussing).

I had to quit after the 3rd book, good world builder but terrible writer.  But it is clear George ripped ideas from it, and that was my only interest in the story.  Like Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings, I think ASOIAF takes place on our Earth, and an explanation for why magic was real at some point, but is no longer--in the case of ASOIAF, I think the weirwood/white worm are the source of all magic, and when they leave Earth at Ragnarok/The New Long Night, then the gods will die/depart, and then the modern age will begin.

The story House of the Worm, sheds some light on this--that the worshipers of the white worm--the worshipers of death-- brought on the darkness--brought on the Long Night, and made evil supernatural things start happening.  And the way to prevent it from happening again, is to cease to believe in its power--to abandon worship of the white worm--abandon weirwood worship. 

 

Jon is the counterpart to Rand al Thor, "al Thor" ~ "arthur" he is King Arthur, callandor = excaliber = Dawn, and there is something about pulling the sword out of the stone.  The Red Comet is the the Red Sword of Heroes, and is will be drawn from a Stone Tree to bring the dawn.  As I think the Red Comet will be used to knock the Black Planet out of eclipse to end the Long Night.  The Sword of the Morning is a celestial sword after all (its a constellation).

 

ETA: I forgot to explicitly state that in Lord of the Rings, the gods and their lands literally and physically depart from the Earth, and that is why magic and wizards and elves are gone in the modern age--they literally flew off into space.

 

Edit to recap an earlier post:

In House of the Worm and Lair of the White Worm, there is an explosion of gunpowder/dynamite below the white worm that blows it up. 

In Vulthoom, a rocket launch was planned to shoot the satanic white bole to Earth.

In Color out of Space, the telepathic vampiric alien space creature that is attached to tree roots absorbs energy from lightning strikes and launches itself into space.

(In Larry Niven's sci-fi there are trees that secrete rocket fuel, to launch themselves to other planets, called Stage Trees, and this is precisely what I think Wildfire is)

And in ASOIAF, there is conspicuous and copious amounts of explosive wildfire placed underneath a red castle and a white church--that is a metaphor for a weirwood grove.  And castles are a metaphor for weirwoods, and they both are described as stone fists punching up into the sky.  And George has already written stories (Guardians) where a kraken launches itself into the air, and where a tree fungus hops from planet to planet (The Men of Greywater Station), the weirwood merely combines these two ideas.

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Since we are talking about hive-minded creatures luring people in to kill them and absorb their life essence, I was just browsing through my Old Norse dictionary, and between Grof and Graen is the word graeska (~greeshka) which means "malice" (and recall that gree means in english "to be of one mind"

And the Greeshka from A Song for Lya was a red parasitic fungus that lived in a cave and preyed on the Shkeen (skeinn means "to cut with a scythe" in swedish--as in "to harvest" and scyn means "to tempt" in Anglo-Saxon).  The Greeska lured Lya in with telepathic suggestions of a blissful union with the hive-mind, but it only wanted to drain her unique psy-powers and she dies when she joins the hive-mind and her identity is obliterated rather than continuing on inside the hive-mind.  Recall also that lige ("liya") means "grave" in Gaelic--Lya goes to the grave when she goes to the cave.  I just looked up the swedish word for scythe and it is "lie"

The Greeshka was a malicious predatory hive mind that lured people in to consume them.  Bran is lured to the cave because the weirwood wants to absorb his unique greenseer powers, because he is the most powerful greenseer perhaps ever born.  And I think Bloodraven's identity has already been annihilated, and he is being used as a prop.

 

When Arya joins the House of Black and White, the main focus is on the negation of the self, and the obliteration of the personal identity.  The identity of Arya dies when she joins the cult, she becomes no-one.  The "people" in the House of Black and White have no identity of their own, they were the skins (Shkeens?) of other people and they worship death.

And for that matter the Greywater fungus hive-mind completely obliterated the identity of the people and animals it took over.  And the the mud-pots from Guardians, although a benevolent hive-mind, completely took over their victims and deprived them of autonomy.  So everything George has written about hive-minds implies loss of self and identity and autonomy.

 

Just bring it back to white worms, in A Song for Lya, they mention giant eater-worms on a planet called Nightmare:

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"No. I mean yes, but that's not what I mean. Final Union isn't death, to him. He believes it, all of it, the whole religion. The Greeshka is his god, and he's going to join it. But before, and now, he was dying. He's got the Slow Plague, Robb. A terminal case. It's been eating at him from inside for fifteen years now. He got it back on Nightmare, in the swamps, when his family died. That's no world for people, but he was there, the administrator over a research base, a short-term thing. They lived on Thor; it was only a visit, but the ship crashed. Gustaffson got all wild and tried to reach them before the end, but he grabbed a faulty pair of skinthins, and the spores got through. And they were all dead when he got there. He had an awful lot of pain, Robb. From the Slow Plague, but more from the loss. He really loved them, and it was never the same after. They gave him Shkea as a reward, kind of, to take his mind off the crash, but he still thought of it all the time. I could see the picture, Robb. It was vivid. He couldn't forget it. The kids were inside the ship, safe behind the walls, but the life system failed and choked them to death. But his wife—oh, Robb—she took some skinthins and tried to go for help, and outside those things, those big wrigglers they have on Nightmare—?"
I swallowed hard, feeling a little sick. "The eater-worms," I said, dully. I'd read about them, and seen holos. I could imagine the picture that Lya'd seen in Gustaffson's memory, and it wasn't at all pretty. I was glad I didn't have her Talent.

 

And Nightmare eater-worms are central to the plot of In the House of the Worm:

" 'huge white eaterworms, who multiply and grow more terrible every day.' It hadn't made any particular sense then. Now, now it did. The Meatbringer had been talking of the Changemasters, of things they brought into the world to afflict the grouns. The thing that lay behind him was indeed an affliction. For the first time in his life, Annelyn felt sorrow for the grouns."

 

as well as Dark, Dark, were the Tunnels:

"He had fought his way through the Bad Levels, where the worm-things still hunted the People relentlessly"

 

So I think it is pretty clear the George does not have a good opinion of the huge white eater worms, they are terrible and they are associated with Nightmare and affliction, and they prey on human beings.  And Annelyn goes from worshiping the White Worm to wanting to hunt them all down and eradicate them.  And of course,  weirwood roots are white worms.  So, Bran was lured into a trap and the cave is not a safe place.

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There are people in this story who wants to turn the world into one big graveyard.  Euron is one.  Arya and her death cult are another.  Soon Bran will start playing on the same team and use his telepathic powers to hurt the people who were the enemies of House Stark.  Jon will be the pale ghost who will haunt the wall and murder the men of the watch.  

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18 hours ago, Prince of the North said:

Yep, I don't think "fly" in this conversation necessarily means only with actual wings but I believe references other types of flight (i.e. mystical, etc.)  That's why I believe TEC points out there are different kinds of wings to Bran when he sees him "groping" for literal wings on his back after the TEC suggests that maybe Bran has wings in the dream, too.  It's not literal.

Agreed. Bran's body lies at Winterfell while his soul is taking flight. I'm reminded of Varamyr's soul floating without direction until he chooses One-Eye.  At first Bran is so high up he can see across continents; then the crow takes him on a journey North to the heart of darkness and lets go.  Fly or die. "The things I do for love."

Oddly, Arya expresses a desire to fly:

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A Clash of Kings - Arya X

As Arya crossed the yard to the bathhouse, she spied a raven circling down toward the rookery, and wondered where it had come from and what message it carried. Might be it's from Robb, come to say it wasn't true about Bran and Rickon. She chewed on her lip, hoping. If I had wings I could fly back to Winterfell and see for myself. And if it was true, I'd just fly away, fly up past the moon and the shining stars, and see all the things in Old Nan's stories, dragons and sea monsters and the Titan of Braavos, and maybe I wouldn't ever fly back unless I wanted to.

 If Arya was a crow:

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A Clash of Kings - Arya X

The heads had been dipped in tar to slow the rot. Every morning when Arya went to the well to draw fresh water for Roose Bolton's basin, she had to pass beneath them. They faced outward, so she never saw their faces, but she liked to pretend that one of them was Joffrey's. She tried to picture how his pretty face would look dipped in tar. If I was a crow I could fly down and peck off his stupid fat pouty lips.

Other kinds of wings:

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A Feast for Crows - Arya II

"Death is not the worst thing," the kindly man replied. "It is His gift to us, an end to want and pain. On the day that we are born the Many-Faced God sends each of us a dark angel to walk through life beside us. When our sins and our sufferings grow too great to be borne, the angel takes us by the hand to lead us to the nightlands, where the stars burn ever bright. Those who come to drink from the black cup are looking for their angels. If they are afraid, the candles soothe them. When you smell our candles burning, what does it make you think of, my child?"

Learning to fly:

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"All," Lord Brynden said. "It was the singers who taught the First Men to send messages by raven … but in those days, the birds would speak the words. The trees remember, but men forget, and so now they write the messages on parchment and tie them round the feet of birds who have never shared their skin."

Old Nan had told him the same story once, Bran remembered, but when he asked Robb if it was true, his brother laughed and asked him if he believed in grumkins too. He wished Robb were with them now.  I'd tell him I could fly, but he wouldn't believe, so I'd have to show him. I bet that he could learn to fly too, him and Arya and Sansa, even baby Rickon and Jon Snow.

We could all be ravens and live in Maester Luwin's rookery.

 They would all be ravens (messengers).  But the messengers have to know how to speak the words, have to have been skinchangers and share their skins.  Did the raven messengers speak the words literally or mind to mind in a dream?

Arya is becoming a servant of the many-faced god, his dark messenger. Dark wings, dark words. dark sister.  The one who comes in disguise (a grumkin) and who's name cannot be known:

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A Game of Thrones - Bran III

"What are you doing?" he shrieked.

The crow opened its beak and cawed at him, a shrill scream of fear, and the grey mists shuddered and swirled around him and ripped away like a veil, and he saw that the crow was really a woman, a serving woman with long black hair, and he knew her from somewhere, from Winterfell, yes, that was it, he remembered her now, and then he realized that he was in Winterfell, in a bed high in some chilly tower room, and the black-haired woman dropped a basin of water to shatter on the floor and ran down the steps, shouting, "He's awake, he's awake, he's awake."

Bran almost sees the identity of the crow as the veil is ripped away. The crow shrieks in fear in response.  We'll have to be on the look-out for Arya sporting long black hair in the next book.   All men must serve.

You might call it trolling.  I call it the dance of a thousand veils; where Martin takes off just enough  clothing to flirt with the line; before putting some clothes back on.

 

 

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4 hours ago, LynnS said:

[paraphrasing] Ned's children are all crows

In Gaelic, nead means "nest" and "circular hollow" and the celtic war god Neid had two wives who were both crows--Nematona "she of the sacred grove" was a Royston Crow (the others killed a crow named Royce) and she is one of the Three Sisters who make up the Morrigan (Ashara was at the Three Sisters).  And Babd (or Badb Catha ["battle crow"]) was Neid's other wife, who was also a crow who appeared on the battlefield to sow confusion, and foreshadow carnage to come, which is what Stoneheart will do.

So, this all implies that The Crow is someone from Ned's family, oh, and Brandon the Builder founded the Nights Watch and he probably gave them the nickname "crows".

neid means "battle"

neo-dhean means to "annul, undo" like Ned's marriage to Ashara.

neoid means "shy, bashful, or miserable person" and Ned is the shy wolf.  In Meera's telling of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, Ashara was a "maid" and Ned was "shy" and now Ashara is on the Shy Maid.  And Ascharira in hindi means "bodiless" and "to renounce all earthly connections" as well as "cupid / the god of love"

Nematona is "she of the sacred grove" and Asherah means "grove" and Asherah of Semitic religion was worshiped in sacred groves, and and with Asherah poles.  And she is closely associated with Ba'al.

 

I think Arya's role is to become a Shadow Sword assassin and kill wizards in the physical world, rather than doing anything from inside the weirwood network.

 

eta: nid in Old Norse means "libel, calumny, defamation" and nid means "nest" in french.

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@By Odin's Beard

I just wanted to tell you how much I'm enjoying your thread.  One of the best ones I've read in a long time.

The image that GRRM has painted with Bloodraven is certainly interesting.  Is Bloodraven the puppetmaster pulling the weirwood roots like puppet strings, or is he the puppet?  Hanging by the weirwood roots like a puppet on strings while the collective consciousness (and unconsciousness) of the Weirwood is pulling his strings?

Regarding luring Bran into the cave.  Bloodraven's "thousand and one eyes" may be a bit of a shout out to one of the most influential collection of stories in literature:  One Thousand and One Nights.

And perhaps the most famous tales from the book is the tale of Aladdin and his magical lamp.  In that tale, Aladdin is lured into a cave by a sorcerer who poses as Aladdin's uncle.  

Bran's conversation with the sorcerer, Brynden Rivers, may be a wink and a nod to that set up, when Bran remarks that he has an uncle named Brynden.

Anyway, good stuff!

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13 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

I think Arya's role is to become a Shadow Sword assassin and kill wizards in the physical world, rather than doing anything from inside the weirwood network.

No doubt she'll do some killing.  She's the maid with serpents in her hair, one serpent for everyone on her list.  As Jon says:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Arya I

Jon watched them leave, and Arya watched Jon. His face had grown as still as the pool at the heart of the godswood. Finally he climbed down off the window. "The show is done," he said. He bent to scratch Ghost behind the ears. The white wolf rose and rubbed against him. "You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

 

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The plot of being lured into a cave happens with Dany also, when Pyat Pree lures her into the House of the Undying, and with illusion and deception they try to entrap her to drain her life force.

Pyat means "magpie" which is a kind of crow.  Pyat also is directly based on the evil wizard Pyrates from Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, who resurrects the Storm King in the White Tower during the Long Night when the Red Comet is in the sky, with 3 magical swords, and the Storm King was imprisoned inside the weirwood network, and there is a time warp when it happens.

Pyat has the White Worm symbolism, and the hands that try to pull her down are a thousand blood-stained hands like weirwood leaves.  And of course there is the huge rotten heart(tree) at the center of it all.  A crow lures her to a cave to suck her dry. 

She burns the House of the Undying (weirwood cave) and destroys it inhabitants.  Just like Arya and Bran will both kill their masters in their weirwood caves.  (Bran defeating One-Eye foreshadows him defeating Bloodraven, and Fenrir the wolf eats Odin at Ragnarok)

However, it has occurred to me that Dany later gets stuck in Meereen (~sounds like Marine--meaning "sea")--so she gets stuck in the greensea again, and they try to kill her again, and (Kraz means crow in arabic, her army is like the undead army, Grey Worm is pretty close to White Worm) and she flies away on her dragon to escape death.  Only to land in another green sea, the Dothraki sea. 

In George's stories This Tower of Ashes, and The Stone City, and perhaps The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr, the protaganist gets stuck inside a dream world forever.  Is there any possibility that Dany has been stuck in the House of the Undying the whole time and never left?  It is odd that she goes in to the House of the Undying by herself, walks through a maze, is trapped, and then Drogon magically appears to save her.  Was that all a dream?

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1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Regarding luring Bran into the cave.  Bloodraven's "thousand and one eyes" may be a bit of a shout out to one of the most influential collection of stories in literature:  One Thousand and One Nights.

And perhaps the most famous tales from the book is the tale of Aladdin and his magical lamp.  In that tale, Aladdin is lured into a cave by a sorcerer who poses as Aladdin's uncle.  

Bran's conversation with the sorcerer, Brynden Rivers, may be a wink and a nod to that set up, when Bran remarks that he has an uncle named Brynden.

Awesome, the repetition of the phrase "thousand and one" always bothered me like it was supposed to be significant, and that is a perfect explanation.  I was not familiar with the original tale of Aladdin so I had to look it up.

Quote

Aladdin is an impoverished young ne'er-do-well, dwelling in "one of the cities of China". He is recruited by a sorcerer from the Maghreb, who passes himself off as the brother of Aladdin's late father, Mustapha the tailor, convincing Aladdin and his mother of his good will by pretending to set up the lad as a wealthy merchant. The sorcerer's real motive is to persuade young Aladdin to retrieve a wonderful oil lamp from a booby-trapped magic cave. After the sorcerer attempts to double-cross him, Aladdin finds himself trapped in the cave. Aladdin is still wearing a magic ring the sorcerer has lent him. When he rubs his hands in despair, he inadvertently rubs the ring and a jinnī (or "genie") appears and releases him from the cave, allowing him to return to his mother while in possession of the lamp. When his mother tries to clean the lamp, so they can sell it to buy food for their supper, a second far more powerful genie appears who is bound to do the bidding of the person holding the lamp.

With the aid of the genie of the lamp, Aladdin becomes rich and powerful and marries Princess Badroulbadour, the sultan's daughter (after magically foiling her marriage to the vizier's son). The genie builds Aladdin and his bride a wonderful palace, far more magnificent than the sultan's.

The sorcerer hears of Aladdin's good fortune, and returns; he gets his hands on the lamp by tricking Aladdin's wife (who is unaware of the lamp's importance) by offering to exchange "new lamps for old". He orders the genie of the lamp to take the palace, along with all its contents, to his home in the Maghreb. Aladdin still has the magic ring and is able to summon the lesser genie. The genie of the ring cannot directly undo any of the magic of the genie of the lamp, but he is able to transport Aladdin to the Maghreb where, with the help of the "woman's wiles" of the princess, he recovers the lamp and slays the sorcerer, returning the palace to its proper place.

The sorcerer's more powerful and evil brother plots to destroy Aladdin for killing his brother by disguising himself as an old woman known for her healing powers. Badroulbadour falls for his disguise and commands the "woman" to stay in her palace in case of any illnesses. Aladdin is warned of this danger by the genie of the lamp and slays the impostor.

Aladdin eventually succeeds to his father-in-law's throne.

As you say, the cave is a trap, evil sorcerer pretends to be his uncle in order to get Aladdin to accomplish something he cannot, Aladdin gets the magic ring and the lamp and kills the sorcerer.

Weirwood circles are magic rings, and weirwoods are symbolised by beacon towers (The Hightower, red and white tower with a wizard inside it, which lights the way, and the Whispers beacon tower sinking into the sea, with severed heads that whisper) and they are torches in the woods that are a blaze of flame.  Bran gets control of the weirwood ring and kills the sorcerer who tried to entrap him.

 

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The white paleness is a characteristic of creatures who live in darkness.  Maybe the people left behind in Westeros will slowly transform into pale wraith like creatures. People like the Starks will grow to adapt to darkness and won't be able to readjust at the end of the long night. 

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