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Mark O'Kane

Why didn't Jahaerys make all his kids dragonriders?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Impbread said:

Why wouldn't we believe that the Targ name isn't synonymous with magical powers?

The Targaryens were only one of many Dragonlord families in Valyria of old.  However, they were the only Dragonlord family that survived the doom.  All known dragonriders in the last 300 years were descended from Aegon & his sisters.  Valyrian heritage, by itself, does not seem to be enough.  It seems one must actually be descended from the only surviving Dragonlord family.

Nonetheless, there have been about 8 dragonriders, who, while they may have been descended from Aegon the Conqueror, did not have the Targaryen name.  It would seem that the male line and/or the sacred bonds of matrimony have no particular magical power.

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Its overtly stated that non Targs could not bond and ride dragons.

At least 8 "non-Targ's" have done so.  But yes, they did have, or can be presumed to have had, Targ heritage.

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Look what happened to prince Martell. 

The current Martells are descended from Aegon the Conqueror.  They have Targ heritage.  Maybe not enough of it, but that's another question.

But I am also of the opinion that it the Tattered Prince was the burnt-beyond-recognition man who died on Dany's bed.  The real Frog is still out there.  Frog Martell survived his encounter with Rhaegal and is in the process of bonding with Viserion.  But that has no relevance to this question, since I also think Frog is a literal Targaryen, in the narrow sense, whose real identity is Aegon son of Rhaegar.

Edited by Mister Smikes

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14 hours ago, Impbread said:

This is the correct answer. If you could just make dragons bend to anyone it would ruin the story. Only a few share a bond significant enough to ride. Its really no different than warging and skin changing. Very few have the gift it skips generations. Just look at the Stark children. Only Bran and Arya seem to have the gift. I guess you can't really say if Sansa did or not because she lost her wolf so soon. Jon also has the gift which is another reason I think he will ride a dragon 

George has gone on record confirming that all the Stark children are wargs, although some are more powerful than others.

And George threw dragons at effectively every Targaryen during the Dance, so it is odd that he had none left for most of the children of Jaehaerys I.

14 hours ago, Impbread said:

I like how you noticed the parallel between the Targs giving kids dragons and the Starks giving their kids dire wolves. Life was also very short back then. People didn't take precautions because death was a part of every day life and Targs are known for their affinity to bond with dragons. Its not like they didn't know what they were doing. Like you stated we aren't told of any dragons killing Targ children. Same with Starks and their wolves 

Well, the difference there is that we only know of six Stark wargs - the Stark children from the novels - whereas there is a pretty long history of Targaryen dragonriders.

13 hours ago, Impbread said:

I don't remember but was Laenor raised at court? Perhaps he was fine with him and his mother having dragons because he assumed they were staunchly loyal. Giving Northern houses dragons is an entirely different proposal. Everyone knows the North only bent the knee because they couldn't defeat the dragons. So I do tend to think that played some role in having less female riders. The thought of rival houses had to of crossed the Kings mind. Dragons are what separates them from every other house in Westeros and dragons are what turned 7 kingdoms into 1.

Laenor was raised on Driftmark and he only got his dragon after his parents had every reason to loathe the Old King, so this doesn't really add up.

Also, nobody ever said Viserra Targaryen should have necessarily gotten a dragon after she was already betrothed to Lord Manderly. The oddity is that she didn't get a dragon earlier. I'd agree that they may have been reluctant to marry her to a Manderly if she had been a dragonrider at the time the betrothal was made.

Overall, Jaehaerys I also didn't view the women of the family as combatant dragonriders - neither Alysanne nor Alyssa participated in the War of the Thousand Candles, for instance. This would imply that he wasn't exactly afraid that a daughter of his would rise in rebellion against his rule. Dragons or not, in the end they were just women.

And the sons of dragonriding daughters could easily enough be simply not permitted dragons of their own. Jaehaerys I did (plan to) marry his daughters off to pretty much everyone, so one imagines the way he intended to control the number of dragonriders was by controlling the dragons.

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18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

George has gone on record confirming that all the Stark children are wargs, although some are more powerful than others.

And George threw dragons at effectively every Targaryen during the Dance, so it is odd that he had none left for most of the children of Jaehaerys I.

Well, the difference there is that we only know of six Stark wargs - the Stark children from the novels - whereas there is a pretty long history of Targaryen dragonriders.

Laenor was raised on Driftmark and he only got his dragon after his parents had every reason to loathe the Old King, so this doesn't really add up.

Also, nobody ever said Viserra Targaryen should have necessarily gotten a dragon after she was already betrothed to Lord Manderly. The oddity is that she didn't get a dragon earlier. I'd agree that they may have been reluctant to marry her to a Manderly if she had been a dragonrider at the time the betrothal was made.

Overall, Jaehaerys I also didn't view the women of the family as combatant dragonriders - neither Alysanne nor Alyssa participated in the War of the Thousand Candles, for instance. This would imply that he wasn't exactly afraid that a daughter of his would rise in rebellion against his rule. Dragons or not, in the end they were just women.

And the sons of dragonriding daughters could easily enough be simply not permitted dragons of their own. Jaehaerys I did (plan to) marry his daughters off to pretty much everyone, so one imagines the way he intended to control the number of dragonriders was by controlling the dragons.

Their thoughts on them "being only women" would make sense for allowing them dragons. We aren't given names of other Stark wargs but I'm thinking the kings from way back with wolf statues with them in the cripts were most likely wargs. For not seeing direwolves South of the wall in many many years Ned is quick to allow them to come home with them. I think he knows more about the family history and warging than he leads on.There is a long list of dragon riders but we also have a much more in depth him look at house Targaryen compared to the Starks. We know almost nothing about the men that ruled the North do we even  know who Neds grandmother is? You get my point. All we get for the Starks are little blurbs  like "this king Stark combined forces with the Nights watch to put down the King beyond the wall" or " this King Stark defeated this extinct rebellious Northern house but died after the battle " I hope we meet at least one more in the next Dunk and Egg story. 

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