NBA - What the hell is going on?

[Proudfeet]

7 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I think that the three guys you named will be in the league a long time, but might be occupying the role of filler starters as teams either look for the next guy or have someone recovering from injury.  I don't think they're about to be sent to the bench, but signs are not good that they are on the way to becoming the Next Big Thing. 

At this rate? Yeah. But they looked promising after their rookie seasons. They aren't potential MVPs like Zion or Luka, but they looked probable to have their time in the spotlight eventually with a breakout year along the way. Instead, we have a bunch of guys who are just as good or better and they look like they are going to be left behind entirely.

SGA in particular seemed to have secured his spot and a max contract. I don't know when he is due for an extension, but at the very least his spot isn't secure anymore. Maybe Cunningham's stock is just that high and its more of a DeRozan than a George Hill for Kawhi situation.

[Wilbur]

On 7/24/2021 at 2:01 PM, BigFatCoward said:

3v3 at the olympics, if NBA players were playing, who would you pick? 

Whoever you pick, they need to bring more than one set of shoes.

https://defector.com/note-for-future-3x3-basketball-olympians-bring-an-extra-pair-of-shoes/

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

This may end up being one of the more entertaining draft nights. It's a deep draft and there should be a number of trades. I'm curious to see what the Warriors can flip those two picks into.

[Argonath Diver]

With the Bulls out of the first round, I am with you hoping for some good Woj and Shams bombs through the proceedings. Seems to me (well, at least most columnists doing mocks) that the first four picks seem relatively locked in. Orlando has some interesting choices to make. I truly have no clue if the Warriors will make a huge trade - I'd say it's likely, but maybe they manage to keep either the pick or Wiseman, while retooling their next roster for their old core's swan song.

Wish I could have the audio on at work, always enjoy the Barclay's Boos. I regret not attending once during my time living in the city. I know a couple guys that go every year and have a blast.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

If I'm the Warriors I'm trying to package Wiseman, Green and three first round picks from Simmons. I'd trade an extra pick to keep Wiseman if possible, but in general I think this would require a third team. Maybe one that sends Lillard to the Sixers with Portland getting back a ton of picks. 

[Maithanet]

12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

If I'm the Warriors I'm trying to package Wiseman, Green and three first round picks from Simmons. I'd trade an extra pick to keep Wiseman if possible, but in general I think this would require a third team. Maybe one that sends Lillard to the Sixers with Portland getting back a ton of picks. 

Draymond Green?  As in the 23rd best player in the league last year according to WAR (14 spots higher than Simmons)?  And you're including last years #2 pick along with three other first rounders?  The Warriors would be insane to make that trade.  The Warriors would also suck as a result, because they already have no depth, and this would make that problem much worse. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

50 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Draymond Green?  As in the 23rd best player in the league last year according to WAR (14 spots higher than Simmons)?  And you're including last years #2 pick along with three other first rounders?  The Warriors would be insane to make that trade.  The Warriors would also suck as a result, because they already have no depth, and this would make that problem much worse. 

Oh wow, I didn’t realize Draymond still graded out that high. Anyways, the Warriors are rumored to be interested in Simmons and I don’t know how you can play those two together. Simmons, even if he didn’t grade out as well, is kind of like a bigger, younger and more athletic version of Green, so I don’t the Warriors would be bad if they swapped those two players in the hypothetical trade machine.

[Maithanet]

Simmons looks like he's getting worse.  He was very close to getting played off the court in the Hawks series because of his offensive shortcomings, which is just ridiculous for a guy who got 3rd team all-NBA last year.  He is like a taller Tony Allen, and that is not someone good enough to be the third best player on a championship team. 

Trading away Green makes no sense for GSW.  Yes, it's possible his game won't age as well as Curry/Thompson, but he's still the youngest of those three guys, and the goal is to win while the window is open.  GSW is in a unique situation in that they have an unusual amount of young assets for a team that has three All-Stars.  What they don't have is decent NBA starters to fill out spots 4-7 on the rotation.  If they trade Wiseman and the 2 picks for another star, then you could realistically rotate your 4 stars and limit your depth problems that way.  Or you could trade some of those guys for 2-3 decent players. 

Just FYI, here's what the Sixers are asking the Warriors for Simmons, and it is significantly less than you offered.  If the Warriors could negotiate that down to 1 future first rounder and make the Sixers throw in a serviceable backup the Warriors could use, I would make that deal. 

 

[briantw]

4 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Simmons looks like he's getting worse.  He was very close to getting played off the court in the Hawks series because of his offensive shortcomings, which is just ridiculous for a guy who got 3rd team all-NBA last year.  He is like a taller Tony Allen, and that is not someone good enough to be the third best player on a championship team. 

Trading away Green makes no sense for GSW.  Yes, it's possible his game won't age as well as Curry/Thompson, but he's still the youngest of those three guys, and the goal is to win while the window is open.  GSW is in a unique situation in that they have an unusual amount of young assets for a team that has three All-Stars.  What they don't have is decent NBA starters to fill out spots 4-7 on the rotation.  If they trade Wiseman and the 2 picks for another star, then you could realistically rotate your 4 stars and limit your depth problems that way.  Or you could trade some of those guys for 2-3 decent players. 

Just FYI, here's what the Sixers are asking the Warriors for Simmons, and it is significantly less than you offered.  If the Warriors could negotiate that down to 1 future first rounder and make the Sixers throw in a serviceable backup the Warriors could use, I would make that deal. 

 

The Sixers' asking price for Simmons actually made me laugh out loud. 

[Maithanet]

34 minutes ago, briantw said:

The Sixers' asking price for Simmons actually made me laugh out loud. 

It is pretty ridiculous.  Simmons looks like a reclamation project at this point, because he got completely embarrassed in that Hawks series.  I'm not even sure the Warriors would really want him.  However I do think that the Warriors should want to trade their assets for SOMEONE, because by the time Wiseman and these two picks develop into real contributors the window for a Curry/Thompson/Green trio winning a championship is probably closed.  Just throwing names out there, but couldn't they trade Wiseman and Wiggins for Pascal Siakam (who the Raptors have indicated is available)?  And then trade the #7 pick to Memphis for some more depth (that team has a ton of depth but needs a star to go with Morant)?

EDIT:  A team of Curry/Thompson/Green/Siakam as stars with a few more depth players sounds like a team that could win another championship.  At the very least, they match up reasonably well with LAL or Brooklyn or Milwaukee. 

[Maithanet]

NBA rumor mil is that the Lakers are working on a deal of kuzma/Harrell/pope for Westbrook.  They're also working on a backup deal of kuzma/pope for buddy heild. IMO the second trade sounds like a much better deal for lal, as I don't see how Westbrook helps them at all.  But what do I know?

Regardless, expect kuzma to get traded tonight.

[WarGalley]

Lol Sixers. I get negotiating at the extremes to move the average but that's just fucking crazy. I'm trying to think of what the most insulting counter could have been.. offer to take Simmons but not the money left on his contract?

 

Looks like Westbrook is headed to the Lakers for Kuzma, KCP and Harrell. I have a hard time seeing how Westbrook fits.. and how the Lakers become much better off by it. There must be another move in play here. 

Edit: Beat me to it. I don't get the Westbrook move either.

[Maithanet]

2 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

Looks like Westbrook is headed to the Lakers for Kuzma, KCP and Harrell. I have a hard time seeing how Westbrook fits.. and how the Lakers become much better off by it. There must be another move in play here. 

Edit: Beat me to it. I don't get the Westbrook move either.

Especially because this is basically the last bullet left in the Lakers revolver.  Those are basically the only guys they have with any trade value.  If they're gone and this doesn't work, it's basically time to tear it down.

That said, as a wizards fan, I don't hate it.  Getting free of the Westbrook contact would be great, even if the team probably is a bit worse without him.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

NBA rumor mil is that the Lakers are working on a deal of kuzma/Harrell/pope for Westbrook.  They're also working on a backup deal of kuzma/pope for buddy heild. IMO the second trade sounds like a much better deal for lal, as I don't see how Westbrook helps them at all.  But what do I know?

Regardless, expect kuzma to get traded tonight.

Beat me to it. The Westbrook trade makes no sense at all whereas Heild would be a great piece to pair with LeBron. 

Back to the Simmons trade, if the Warriors could pull off the one you suggested, how do yo envision Green and Simmons working together? Their skillsets are redundant and Green can't shoot anymore. If he still could it would be fine because they'd make Simmons the PG on offense and play five out, but they can't do that with Green unless you want to watch him miss wide open threes all game long.  

[WarGalley]

13 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

That said, as a wizards fan, I don't hate it.  Getting free of the Westbrook contact would be great, even if the team probably is a bit worse without him.

What do you think about Beal? I'm going to assume if Westbrook leaves, the Wizards will look to ship Beal off and re-build which doesn't sound like a bad idea.

[Maithanet]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Back to the Simmons trade, if the Warriors could pull off the one you suggested, how do yo envision Green and Simmons working together? Their skillsets are redundant and Green can't shoot anymore. If he still could it would be fine because they'd make Simmons the PG on offense and play five out, but they can't do that with Green unless you want to watch him miss wide open threes all game long.  

I think the green Simmons skillets are not that redundant, you can certainly use two great defenders on the floor.  Offensively it's an issue, particularly in the playoffs, but they'd have some time to figure it out.

56 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

What do you think about Beal? I'm going to assume if Westbrook leaves, the Wizards will look to ship Beal off and re-build which doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Beal is a very good player, but probably not good enough to be the best player on a championship team.  The wizards don't seem to have any plan in place to get him a player of that caliber, or to get two other all stars such that they might contend.  And that's what I want is a team that is at least in the mix for a title.  I don't want to go back to being terrible, but I also can't really see how beal leads Washington anywhere meaningful.  It's a bad spot.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I think the green Simmons skillets are not that redundant, you can certainly use two great defenders on the floor.  Offensively it's an issue, particularly in the playoffs, but they'd have some time to figure it out.

They do all the same things, and both have the same flaw (no outside shooting). I just can't see that working, and that's assuming Klay comes back at around >80% of what he used to be. I think they'd be better off trading both picks to get some more 3 and D wings, or odd as it sounds, maybe go after someone like KAT, not that it would actually happen.

Quote

Beal is a very good player, but probably not good enough to be the best player on a championship team.  The wizards don't seem to have any plan in place to get him a player of that caliber, or to get two other all stars such that they might contend.  And that's what I want is a team that is at least in the mix for a title.  I don't want to go back to being terrible, but I also can't really see how beal leads Washington anywhere meaningful.  It's a bad spot.

Beal is a two or three on a true contender. No way he can lead a team to a title. If I was a Wizards fan I'd want to blow it up, get as many picks as possible and be bad for a year or two.

[briantw]

It's like the Lakers asked themselves who the best players were to surround LeBron James with.

Then they got Russell Westbrook instead of those guys. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

You got a gift @DMC.

I wonder when the Turkish league MVP gets picked. The hype around him is really interesting. 

[Maithanet]

10 minutes ago, briantw said:

It's like the Lakers asked themselves who the best players were to surround LeBron James with.

Then they got Russell Westbrook instead of those guys. 

I honestly cannot make an argument for why Westbrook helps LAL more than Hield.  Not to mention that Westbrook is grossly overpaid and ten years older.