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NBA - What the hell is going on?


Red Tiger

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26 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You got a gift @DMC.

I wonder when the Turkish league MVP gets picked. The hype around him is really interesting. 

Indeed.  Very happy with Suggs and Wagner.

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8 minutes ago, DMC said:

Indeed.  Very happy with Suggs and Wagner.

I think Suggs is going to be a really good pro, and Wagner on paper looks like a good pick at 8.

Kind of surprised the Raptors didn't try and trade the 4th pick to you guys for both picks considering most people think this is a four player draft at the top. 

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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Kind of surprised the Raptors didn't try and trade the 4th pick to you guys for both picks considering most people think this is a four player draft at the top.

Yeah.  Barnes really shot up the board though and was heavily linked to Orlando, so if the Raptors really wanted him probably was wise not to get too cute.

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31 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I honestly cannot make an argument for why Westbrook helps LAL more than Hield.  Not to mention that Westbrook is grossly overpaid and ten years older.  

Maybe he's meant to split minutes with LeBron instead of playing with LeBron. Seems an awkward fit and that's a lot of players and a pick outgoing, even if Harrell and Kuzma disappointed.

Maybe Westbrook is an upgrade on Schroder outgoing in free agency, but they have LeBron running the point anyway. I'd take Hield too, especially since that means they keep KCP and the pick. :dunno:

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Beal is a very good player, but probably not good enough to be the best player on a championship team.  The wizards don't seem to have any plan in place to get him a player of that caliber, or to get two other all stars such that they might contend.  And that's what I want is a team that is at least in the mix for a title.  I don't want to go back to being terrible, but I also can't really see how beal leads Washington anywhere meaningful.  It's a bad spot.

Yeah, Beal can't be your #1 so what's the goal here really because this generally looks like another 40 win team if that. 

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1 hour ago, DMC said:

Yeah.  Barnes really shot up the board though and was heavily linked to Orlando, so if the Raptors really wanted him probably was wise not to get too cute.

Interesting, didn't know that. Still, moving back one spot and getting Suggs even if they favored Barnes plus another pick just few spots later is hard to pass on, assuming the opportunity was there. 

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21 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Interesting, didn't know that. Still, moving back one spot and getting Suggs even if they favored Barnes plus another pick just few spots later is hard to pass on, assuming the opportunity was there. 

I'd certainly do that deal, yeah, and let's just say I'm happy either Orlando didn't make that offer or the Raptors didn't take it.  As much as I like Suggs, I would've preferred Barnes and the 8th pick (probably wouldn't have been Wagner in this scenario) over just him.  Honestly I don't think I would've traded both picks for anyone but Cunningham.

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7 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'd certainly do that deal, yeah, and let's just say I'm happy either Orlando didn't make that offer or the Raptors didn't take it.  As much as I like Suggs, I would've preferred Barnes and the 8th pick (probably wouldn't have been Wagner in this scenario) over just him.  Honestly I don't think I would've traded both picks for anyone but Cunningham.

Idk, I'm pretty high on Suggs, but there is so homer bias there (him being from the Twin Cities). He's a big traditional PG who can create and attack the rim and is probably going to become one of the better defensive PGs in the league quickly. With a more refined shooting game he could become a very good PG. 

Also, I think you have to make that trade for Green too, and I highly doubt those two picks alone move you up to one or two. That's costing you at least another first rounder, maybe more.

Do you think Cunningham will ultimately be a PG at the next level? I haven't done much pre-draft research since the Wolves didn't have any picks, but it was troubling to hear today that he had a negative assist to turnover ratio last season. 

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I'm happy that the Cavs were able to get Mobley with the third pick.  He's the 1.01 in a lot of drafts, and the best defensive big to enter the draft since Anthony Davis.  He's not on Davis' level as a prospect, but he could easily end up being the best player from this draft.

That being said, the NFL season can't start soon enough. 

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25 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, I think you have to make that trade for Green too, and I highly doubt those two picks alone move you up to one or two. That's costing you at least another first rounder, maybe more.

Well, I'd try to package one of their numerous cheap young players instead of future picks, but yeah, seemed clear it would cost them more to move up from what I've read.  Which again, is why I only would've done it for Cade.  I really like Green, but he's too much of a project to invest that much.  Two lotto tickets are better than one.

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22 minutes ago, DMC said:

Two lotto tickets are better than one.

Not sure how you feel about Haberstroh, but he made an interesting argument that when you balance everything out over a long time and exclude the top pick, it really is all just random luck. Would you for example be happy if the Magic turned the 5th and 8th pick into the 7th, 10th and 16th? I kind of would, but at the same time I would rather try and flip those picks plus another future and maybe a player to crack the top two in this draft. 

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Would you for example be happy if the Magic turned the 5th and 8th pick into the 7th, 10th and 16th? I kind of would, but at the same time I would rather try and flip those picks plus another future and maybe a player to crack the top two in this draft. 

Well, since Suggs dropped to 5, no.  But assuming he hadn't...that's tough.  Once you get into the 16th pick, nine times out of ten you're at best getting a rotational player.  I'd rather use the 5th and 8th to ensure I'm playing the lotto with the numbers I want rather than waiting for the 7th and 10th.

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24 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well, since Suggs dropped to 5, no.  But assuming he hadn't...that's tough.  Once you get into the 16th pick, nine times out of ten you're at best getting a rotational player.  I'd rather use the 5th and 8th to ensure I'm playing the lotto with the numbers I want rather than waiting for the 7th and 10th.

And that's fair. There are no right answer in this game. It's just worth noting that three of the five first team all-pro players were taken outside of the lottery, with the MVP being a second round pick. Which just goes to show that scouting and player development has never had more value with all the talent available. 

ETA: OKC may have gotten the steal of the draft with the Turk at....16. ;)

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4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It's just worth noting that three of the five first team all-pro players were taken outside of the lottery, with the MVP being a second round pick.

Both true, but to be fair this is recency bias.  Neither of these things is usually the case.

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19 minutes ago, DMC said:

Both true, but to be fair this is recency bias.  Neither of these things is usually the case.

The Bucks just won a title with their only lottery pick being Brook Lopez of all people. Obviously I don't think you can recreate that in most instances, but if I'm being consistent I've repeatedly said if I ran an NFL team I wouldn't care about first round picks unless I had a shot at a top QB prospect, and instead would prioritize getting as many shots in the first three rounds as possible. Not sure how well that applies to the NBA, but circling back to when I @'d you, I'd still trade back one spot to get the 8th pick and live with the consequences (though I also agree moving up for the player I really wanted may trump that mindset).

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6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The Bucks just won a title with their only lottery pick being Brook Lopez of all people.

Way to double down on the recency bias.  Again, this is rare.  The Raptors come to mind (I think), but before that even with the 2000s-era Pistons, which is a team filled more with role players than stars that springs to mind, Billups, Rip, and Rasheed were all lotto picks.

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13 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Not sure how well that applies to the NBA, but circling back to when I @'d you, I'd still trade back one spot to get the 8th pick and live with the consequences

Sorry hit reply too quick.  To be clear, I agree with this.  Pretty sure I already said I did.

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25 minutes ago, DMC said:

Both true, but to be fair this is recency bias.  Neither of these things is usually the case.

Its not recency bias. Its absurdly stupid backwards logic. Players are not determined by their draft order, the draft order reflects the teams opinion on the players.

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