Nameless but essential characters

[Seams]

As always, if you are not interested in literary analysis, you should always skip my threads. Sophomoric remarks waste my time and yours.

I may be defining this category too narrowly with that title - there are some characters who have a sort of a name or title, such as the catspaw, who are minor in the sense of having no backstory (that we know of) but who play an key role in the plot. 

Please help to create a list and offer any insights or guesses about the purpose of these characters or whether they seem like echoes or parallels of players with higher profiles. Which anonymous bit players have stayed in your mind as you read the books?

Here are a few examples that have intrigued me.

The woodcarver.

Quote

"I was younger than you, six, maybe seven. A woodcarver set up shop in the village under my father's keep, and to buy favor he sent us gifts. The old man made marvelous toys. I don't remember what I got, but it was Gregor's gift I wanted. A wooden knight, all painted up, every joint pegged separate and fixed with strings, so you could make him fight. Gregor is five years older than me, the toy was nothing to him, he was already a squire, near six foot tall and muscled like an ox. So I took his knight, but there was no joy to it, I tell you. I was scared all the while, and true enough, he found me. There was a brazier in the room. Gregor never said a word, just picked me up under his arm and shoved the side of my face down in the burning coals and held me there while I screamed and screamed. You saw how strong he is. Even then, it took three grown men to drag him off me. The septons preach about the seven hells. What do they know? Only a man who's been burned knows what hell is truly like.  (AGoT, Sansa II)

Carving wood seems like an important symbolic role in ASOIAF, given the importance of trees in the culture. We know there is a puppet motif with Bran seeming to play the Pinocchio role in some symbolism. (I have also seen Dunk as a puppet with either Bloodraven or Egg holding the strings, and Brienne strung up like a puppet when Lady Stoneheart orders that she be killed for breaking her oath to Catelyn.) 

The man in the glass gardens.

Quote

Bran had been marking the days on his wall, eager to depart, to see a world he had only dreamed of and begin a life he could scarcely imagine.

Yet now that the last day was at hand, suddenly Bran felt lost. Winterfell had been the only home he had ever known. His father had told him that he ought to say his farewells today, and he had tried. After the hunt had ridden out, he wandered through the castle with his wolf at his side, intending to visit the ones who would be left behind, Old Nan and Gage the cook, Mikken in his smithy, Hodor the stableboy who smiled so much and took care of his pony and never said anything but "Hodor," the man in the glass gardens who gave him a blackberry when he came to visit …  (AGoT, Bran II)

Any kind of fruit is part of a large set of symbols in ASOIAF. In past posts, I've listed ways that GRRM compares body parts to fruit but I'm not certain how berries match up with body parts. I think Dunk compares Rohanne Webber's nipples to berries after he dreams about her. This could be consistent with Bran's thoughts here, as he is about to be "weaned" from walking, from his parents and from Winterfell - to "begin a life he could scarcely imagine." But why does the author give us a specific man who provided Bran with berries? The important symbolism may be in the glass house, which is discussed in Sansa's snow castle scene with Littlefinger. 

The Silent Sister.

Quote

... "None of us is ever ready," he said.

"For knighthood?"

"For death." Gently Ned covered the boy with his cloak, a bloodstained bit of blue bordered in crescent moons. When his mother asked why her son was dead, he reflected bitterly, they would tell her he had fought to honor the King's Hand, Eddard Stark. "This was needless. War should not be a game." Ned turned to the woman beside the cart, shrouded in grey, face hidden but for her eyes. The silent sisters prepared men for the grave, and it was ill fortune to look on the face of death. "Send his armor home to the Vale. The mother will want to have it."

"It is worth a fair piece of silver," Ser Barristan said. "The boy had it forged special for the tourney. Plain work, but good. I do not know if he had finished paying the smith."

"He paid yesterday, my lord, and he paid dearly," Ned replied. And to the silent sister he said, "Send the mother the armor. I will deal with this smith." She bowed her head. (AGoT, Eddard VII)

I have guessed that this woman represents Ned's silent sister, Lyanna, especially because the hapless young Ser Hugh of the Vale, slain by Ser Gregor in the Hand's Tourney, seems like a Jon Snow figure and Ned is concerned about Ser Hugh's mother. We have heard people discuss silent sisters in other POVs, but how often do we see them "on stage"? They are in the room when Catelyn views Ned's bones. Any other appearances?

Another question: GRRM uses titles for some POVs instead of given names - The Turncloak, The Prince of Winterfell, The Captain of the Guards, The Watcher, etc. Are some of these significant bit players like these generic POV names, giving clues to readers about "types" of characters in addition to specific characters?

[Melifeather]

11 minutes ago, Seams said:

The woodcarver.

Quote

"I was younger than you, six, maybe seven. A woodcarver set up shop in the village under my father's keep, and to buy favor he sent us gifts. The old man made marvelous toys. I don't remember what I got, but it was Gregor's gift I wanted. A wooden knight, all painted up, every joint pegged separate and fixed with strings, so you could make him fight. Gregor is five years older than me, the toy was nothing to him, he was already a squire, near six foot tall and muscled like an ox. So I took his knight, but there was no joy to it, I tell you. I was scared all the while, and true enough, he found me. There was a brazier in the room. Gregor never said a word, just picked me up under his arm and shoved the side of my face down in the burning coals and held me there while I screamed and screamed. You saw how strong he is. Even then, it took three grown men to drag him off me. The septons preach about the seven hells. What do they know? Only a man who's been burned knows what hell is truly like.  (AGoT, Sansa II)

Carving wood seems like an important symbolic role in ASOIAF, given the importance of trees in the culture. We know there is a puppet motif with Bran seeming to play the Pinocchio role in some symbolism. (I have also seen Dunk as a puppet with either Bloodraven or Egg holding the strings, and Brienne strung up like a puppet when Lady Stoneheart orders that she be killed for breaking her oath to Catelyn.) 

Certainly Gregor was Sandor's "woodcarver". Sandor was formed that very day when his brother burned him. His attitude about knights was carved into shape.

 

[Mourning Star]

The two nameless characters I immediately think of are the Captain of the Myraham’s daughter and Ned’s mother.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

The butcher's boy. 

The kindly man

hmmm. Arya the would be faceless may be surrounded by the nameless...

[Mourning Star]

11 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

The butcher's boy. 

Mycah!

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

18 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Mycah!

Damn!

Was he ever referred to as Mycah after he died?

[Lord Browndodd]

1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Damn!

Was he ever referred to as Mycah after he died?

By Arya, yes.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Just now, Lord Browndodd said:

By Arya, yes.

Damn!

[Hugorfonics]

A spasm of pain twisted his face. "Do you mean to make me beg, bitch? Do it! The gift of mercy . . . avenge your little Michael . . .

" "Mycah."

.

Lol

.

10 hours ago, Seams said:

Which anonymous bit players have stayed in your mind as you read the books?

The daughter of a wise. Who saved a raider, shed her families treasure and created a king

Quote

My brothers feared I might die before they got me back to Maester Mullin at the Shadow Tower, so they carried me to a wildling village where we knew an old wisewoman did some healing. She was dead, as it happened, but her daughter saw to me. Cleaned my wounds, sewed me up, and fed me porridge and potions until I was strong enough to ride again. And she sewed up the rents in my cloak as well, with some scarlet silk from Asshai that her grandmother had pulled from the wreck of a cog washed up on the Frozen Shore. It was the greatest treasure she had, and her gift to me."

 

[LynnS]

I don't know if this qualifies; but the character Willow, named after a tree

[Seams]

53 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I don't know if this qualifies; but the character Willow, named after a tree

Good one. I think there is a thread running through the characters named Will, Willow, Wylla, Willas, etc. I'm not sure what it is that they share but many of them remain "off stage." This would be a good group of people for further discussion. 

16 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

an old wisewoman did some healing. She was dead, as it happened, but her daughter saw to me

Excellent example. Truly a pivotal role in reviving / transforming Mance. The "woods witch" seems to be one of GRRM's archetypes - I believe the wife of Clarence Crabb is a woods witch. Are they simply people with the power to revive dead people, or is there more to it?

19 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

The butcher's boy. 

The kindly man

It's true that Mycah is named but he might fit this discussion as an archetype of sorts. There are so many butcher kings in the story - King Cleon, Ramsay who fights like a butcher and flays humans the way a butcher might skin an animal. Maybe even the king with a head of a wolf who holds a piece of mutton like a scepter in Dany's dream. Mycah is hacked into pieces and his father (the butcher) thinks he is being given a bag containing a butchered pig. What could it mean? The cycle of violence where the butcher becomes the meat? This might fit with the rotten meat thrown at Cersei during her walk of shame.

The kindly man is a great example. He definitely seems like an archetype and we don't know his name or back story. He also seems to play a mentor role of sorts, helping to train Arya as an assassin. I have considered him as comparable to Littlefinger (a twisted mentor for Sansa) and The Widow of the Waterfront (a gatekeeper who directs Tyrion and Ser Jorah on their journey). Maybe they all match up with the Bloodraven mentor archetype?

20 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

Captain of the Myraham’s daughter and Ned’s mother

Yes! There are many fertile young women in GRRM's world. It is interesting that the girl on the ship with Theon is never given a name. I suspect she may be pregnant with Theon's child when he leaves her. (He says as much when he tells her she cannot come with him.) In the Dunk & Egg stories, the daughter of Lord Ashford (the initial Queen of Love and Beauty for the tourney) is never named. Also Sam Stoop's Wife is always referred to as Sam Stoop's Wife. 

I was very intrigued by Ned's mother until TWOIAF came out and GRRM explained more about her. But GRRM definitely has a lot of mothers who die in child birth or who leave their child to be raised by someone else. It seems strange that Ned would never refer to memories of his Lady Mother. He should have been old enough to remember her, if she had two more kids after he was born. Or people would have told him about her if she died when he was little. Strange that she is not mentioned at all in the novels.

[Mourning Star]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

Yes! There are many fertile young women in GRRM's world. It is interesting that the girl on the ship with Theon is never given a name. I suspect she may be pregnant with Theon's child when he leaves her. (He says as much when he tells her she cannot come with him.) In the Dunk & Egg stories, the daughter of Lord Ashford (the initial Queen of Love and Beauty for the tourney) is never named. Also Sam Stoop's Wife is always referred to as Sam Stoop's Wife. 

A part of me understands that the captains daughter plays her role in the story and then leaves the scene, even the fact that Theon seemingly doesn't bother to learn her name is kind of meaningful in its own way, and there is no reason for her to be returned to the stage. But then I want to theorize!

First, there is the possibility that Theon has a child out there he is unaware of. I don't think this is much of a stretch, as you point out he even mentions the possibility himself.

Then I start to get to the fun stuff, unwrap my tinfoil, and start asking the real questions!

Was the girl really the captain's daughter at all? I know I know, everyone has a secret identity, but bare with me a moment.

The captain never calls her his daughter, all we get are Theon's assumptions and her words.

She is oddly old for being a virgin and the captain is seemingly offended by Theon's behavior, but we never see him actually call her his daughter. Is it possible that she was another honored guest and not his daughter at all?

Then there is this:

Quote

An ironborn captain in a longship would have taken them along the cliffs and under the high bridge that spanned the gap between the gatehouse and the Great Keep, but this plump Oldtowner had neither the craft, the crew, nor the courage to attempt such a thing. So they sailed past at a safe distance, and Theon must content himself with seeing Pyke from afar. Even so, the Myraham had to struggle mightily to keep itself off those rocks.
"It must be windy there," the captain's daughter observed.
He laughed. "Windy and cold and damp. A miserable hard place, in truth . . . but my lord father once told me that hard places breed hard men, and hard men rule the world."

A Clash of Kings - Theon I

And the girl is constantly begging Theon to take her ashore with him.

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He has sworn. "Even if I named the king . . ."
"Speak the name, and death will come. On the morrow, at the turn of the moon, a year from this day, it will come. A man does not fly like a bird, but one foot moves and then another and one day a man is there, and a king dies."

A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

And if we interpret the Ghost of Highheart's vision as representing a faceless man:

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I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings.

A Storm of Swords - Arya IV

Is it possible that the faceless man who killed Balon got to the Iron Islands on the Myraham, disguised as the captains daughter?

One final point... the Myraham is a ship out of Oldtown, and may well have returned there after reporting Balon's death to Rob. Oldtown is where the Alchemist, presumably a faceless man, is seen.

Quote

I was very intrigued by Ned's mother until TWOIAF came out and GRRM explained more about her. But GRRM definitely has a lot of mothers who die in child birth or who leave their child to be raised by someone else. It seems strange that Ned would never refer to memories of his Lady Mother. He should have been old enough to remember her, if she had two more kids after he was born. Or people would have told him about her if she died when he was little. Strange that she is not mentioned at all in the novels.

Clearly it is because Ned is secretly a Disney princess!

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

2 hours ago, Seams said:

It's true that Mycah is named but he might fit this discussion as an archetype of sorts. There are so many butcher kings in the story - King Cleon, Ramsay who fights like a butcher and flays humans the way a butcher might skin an animal. Maybe even the king with a head of a wolf who holds a piece of mutton like a scepter in Dany's dream. Mycah is hacked into pieces and his father (the butcher) thinks he is being given a bag containing a butchered pig. What could it mean? The cycle of violence where the butcher becomes the meat? This might fit with the rotten meat thrown at Cersei during her walk of shame.

Oh. Nice rebound!

I was thinking of all of the background/ minor butchers and blacksmiths when I wrote that and yeah completely forgot that the kid had a name. I wanted a nameless smith as well but The Smith was the only one I could think of.  (qualifies?)

Like Mycah Janos Slynt was a butcher's boy as well wasn't he? Ultimately meat. I think there is a cycle or something in the butchery- or at least the fate of butchers and their boys.

SOmetimes it's interesting to just punch a word into the ol' kobo app and search for it in the text.  Good way to see a few different usages and applications and sometimes catch some of GRRM's double entendres or puns ( I really need to be beat over the head with some of them before the light goes on).  I may try and look at butcher this weekend. It comes up a lot.

[Springwatch]

Dany's wineseller. Illyrio's cooks. A lot of whores, I think.

ETA

The first two are probably more about food codes (which had a lot of discussion years back, but never a full solution - pity).

The whores could be the Others (ladies of the night!). Or soft power, the power of love and desire. Or the power of the weak.

[Mourning Star]

2 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

SOmetimes it's interesting to just punch a word into the ol' kobo app and search for it in the text.

I don't know what a kobo is but asearchoficeandfire.com works great for this...

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

39 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

I don't know what a kobo is but asearchoficeandfire.com works great for this...

hey, I never heard of that.

Kobo's a digital book platform. When I started asoiaf (right after the death of Joffrey in the TV show - I don't know how anyone who hadn't read the books to that point could have resisted past that scene!) there was a 5 volume edition available which I bought.  I'm going to be a little disappointed when Winds is a standalone on my phone because it will take 2 searches to be complete.  Now I've nothing to worry about, I'll just use that asearchoficeandfire.com instead.

wow. That search beats the stuffing out of the kobo app!

[Seams]

4 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

Is it possible that the faceless man who killed Balon got to the Iron Islands on the Myraham, disguised as the captains daughter?

Very, very cool. 

It also crossed my mind that Tysha is often described as a crofter's daughter. In that case, she has a name but also a label. I tried anagrams with the crofter's daughter label and started to wonder whether there is a hidden clue about "truth" in her title.

4 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

Clearly it is because Ned is secretly a Disney princess!

Aha! Everything falls into place finally!

3 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Dany's wineseller. Illyrio's cooks. A lot of whores, I think.

I'm trying to remember whether Dany's wineseller is the only one in the books. A lot of people serve wine, of course, but we don't see people selling it. I'm slowly, slowly working my way through the Dunk & Egg symbolism and the two kegs of wine purchased at the beginning of The Sworn Sword seem very significant. But I have a lot of work to do to decode wine. I welcome other people's theories.

Cooks are a great category for this thread. The most intriguing to me is the cook on board the Selaesori Qhoran. He plays cyvasse really well and avidly, so he must represent someone important in the Game of Thrones. The two books on board the ship come from his area of the ship. The cook also dies horribly after being blinded by grease, iirc. The Rat Cook story and the overall importance of food symbolism makes any cook a good target for analysis. 

No doubt about the importance of both named and nameless of whores. I don't even know where to begin to guess at their role or meaning in literary analysis. They may have many roles, of course. 

[Nevets]

1.  The traveler that the wildlings that Jon was with ran into near Queenscross.  Jon was ordered to kill him, but, obviously, didn't want to.  He was saved by the fortuitous arrival of Summer.  The traveler, however, wasn't so lucky.

2.  The man Bran and his companions met on their way to the Wall.  He left them with food and information.   We know his House (Liddell) but not his name.

3.  The miller's boys that Theon killed and made to look like Bran and Rickon.  Their mother, who Theon also killed, is nameless too.

4.  The miller's wife that Roose Bolton raped, resulting in Ramsay.  Hmm, it looks like miller's wives have it rough in Westeros.

5.  The insurance broker killed by Arya on FM orders in Braavos.

As to the captain's daughter, I doubt we will hear from her again.  She seems intended to show Theon's attitude toward women (sex objects).  He's a "fuck and forget" kind of guy.  Kara, miller's wife, captain's daughter, and his only thought about Meera was to wonder whether she was still maiden.

Even if the captain's daughter is pregnant, the child would be illegitimate, unacknowledged, with unprovable parentage.  I don't see that one going anywhere.

[LynnS]

16 hours ago, Seams said:

Good one. I think there is a thread running through the characters named Will, Willow, Wylla, Willas, etc. I'm not sure what it is that they share but many of them remain "off stage." This would be a good group of people for further discussion.

Just searching about symbolism of willow trees and found this:

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The term Willow has Celtic origins and its meaning is “near the water”. Both from a purely symbolic and natural point of view, the Willow is strongly linked to the element of water and the magic ingrained in it.

For people and Celts specifically, the Willow was considered a female divinity and its cult, linked to lunar cycles and fertility, always held great importance over the centuries.

Willow Tree Symbolism and Meaning Explained [With A Few Legends] (magickalspot.com)

Martin has also grouped willows together with the oak and the elm tree:

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"What will I know?" Bran asked the Reeds afterward, when they came with torches burning brightly in their hand, to carry him back to a small chamber off the big cavern where the singers had made beds for them to sleep. "What do the trees remember?"

"The secrets of the old gods," said Jojen Reed. Food and fire and rest had helped restore him after the ordeals of their journey, but he seemed sadder now, sullen, with a weary, haunted look about the eyes. "Truths the First Men knew, forgotten now in Winterfell … but not in the wet wild. We live closer to the green in our bogs and crannogs, and we remember. Earth and water, soil and stone, oaks and elms and willows, they were here before us all and will still remain when we are gone."

Oak Tree Symbolism and Meaning [A Celtic Tree of Life] (magickalspot.com)

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In classic mythology, the ancient Greeks associated the oak with Zeus, and under the oak’s branches is where the music of Orpheus was played. Zeus was known to communicate through thunder or the oak itself.

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The Celtic tree of life is a metaphor explaining the journey of every person’s life. The roots represent the wildest parts of oneself, the “shadows”, which through growth and maturity can be modified.

Elm Tree Symbolism and Meaning [With Birth Date Symbolism] (magickalspot.com)

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The elm tree is a “feminine” plant according to Germanic mythology, where it went by its ancient name of “Embla”, the elm represents the name of the first woman born.

For the ancient Greeks and Romans, the elm was the tree of Oneiros, the son of the night and God of dreams. For them, the elm was the tree of sleep, dreams, and death. Due to this powerful meaning within these cultures, the elm was said to have oracle powers – a psychic tree that was believed to possess the ability to predict future events.

 

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

All those at the poopy goose, stinking goose? And the lady that serves drinks within.Dick Crab meets Brienne there. Between 2 barrels I think..on a plank?

If I remember correctly. Was there other people? I can recall the descriptive interior, with  imagined aroma like wave lines, but now I can’t remember if there was two lady’s arguing or not.

That farmer who tells Jamie Tywin shits silver.

The merchant/trader who sold the grey scale doll? To Stanis. 
That woodcarver guy as well.