Covid-19 #34 - Alpha, Delta, It’s All Greek to Me!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Week said:

Dunning-Kruger. My god.

Quote

Beasley: I’m like a dog. I don’t even gotta stretch. I just get up and go.

Prescott: Dogs stretch. My dog gets up in the morning…

Beasley: Look.

Prescott: That’s why they got a downward dog. That’s a stretch a dog does.

 

[Luzifer's right hand]

It looks like they have decided to give people who had covid-19 two shots around here. Originally the plan was to give one shot only but because they are not sure how things will work with the EU Digital COVID Certificate they seem to have changed policy. 

[Filippa Eilhart]

I think it’s a matter of encoding it the right way. Luxembourg is doing one dose and claims that the certificate will show it as full vaccination. 

[Luzifer's right hand]

30 minutes ago, Fillyjonk Eilhart said:

I think it’s a matter of encoding it the right way. Luxembourg is doing one dose and claims that the certificate will show it as full vaccination. 

That is what they claimed at first here too. I can see my certificate and it says 1/2 and my SOs says 2/2.

But neither if us had covid-19 though. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Let’s all just take a nice, deep breath, and kumbayah. We all want the same thing, which is more vaccinations, fewer variants, more stability. A better economy. And cats that haven’t decided to not use a litterbox.

Ok, that last one was personal, but seriously, we still all want that, am I right?

Amen, sister.

[Week]

I think there was a cross post - this isn't the drunk thread.

[TrueMetis]

3 hours ago, mcbigski said:

Seriously?  CDC has no credibility for actual thinking people.  Totally politicized bullshit.  Not sure if it's still the Science de Jure, but back in March/April the CDC said, imperfect perhaps, quoting from memory, but those corrupt fuckers have memory holed a bunch of shit already so make your own judgement.. There's no proof that having had covid protects you long term, but getting vaccinated is safe and effective long term more than exposure to the actual virus, so get vaccinated regardless.  

This is obviously total bullshit and just marketing shit to push vaccines.  Really anyone that believes that marketing nonsense should think twice about ever quoting Science again, even if it's just that gravity will make your number two drop.  Because you're an idiot.

Man it really irritates you that science changes doesn't it?

ETA:  A quick search finds this https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/ about a May study

TLDR, Mild COVID appears to grant long lasting immunity, we don't yet know if that's true of asymptomatic COVID or moderate-severe COVID. So that half remembered CDC point, doesn't seem unreasonable.

[Zorral]

Several people at Saturday's party had gotten sick with covid. Their experiences were all over the place, with two exceptions. The first is that all these people had contracted it right at the start of the pandemic -- and one of them just one day before New York locked down in March 2020.  The second is that the young ones -- I'm talking under thirty -- got it far worse, and were sick far, far longer.

It was such a contrast between, for instance, the friend who was in his late 60's, who had contracted childhood diabetes when seven, and has asthma (and no, not in the least obese). He said he was severely sick for just about only two days, and then recovery took about two weeks.  His husband, who is significantly younger than he is, and cared for him then, and their utterly strict 5-month quarantine -- his husband didn't even drive to the supermarket -- hey we are all privileged at this party so our groceries and everything else was delivery -- he never got it.

The under-thirty-year-old came down with it at at the end of March.  He was very, very, very sick.  As was his girlfriend.  It took them both months to recover.

Both these friends looked great on Saturday.  The under-thirty I'd last seen when he was dropping something off his parents had gotten for us at a Green Market back in July 2020.  He was literally a bag of bones then.  So, whew!

It was so interesting comparing experiences.  Even though we were all among the privileged (though nobody rich or super rich, but we all have enough, with a little to spare), still, all our experiences were different -- other than as relationships.  We were all in good ones Before, and it is clear that all these relationships are stronger than ever.

We're all baffled as to, "What now?"  None of us are particularly able to fling ourselves right back into our lives Before, for all kinds of reasons.  Some of the institutions where people worked are gone.  Live music is still not a Thing among our kind.  Artists have lost galleries, and some have lost their museum commissions, even as the institutions shut down.  Flying all over the world, all the time, actually living at least half the year outside the USA -- none of this is possible right now.  Moreover, none of us really want to go back to schedules we had Before, it seems, particularly the traveling part.  None of us are racing to go to restaurants.  Travel right now is about seeing family and, in our case, research.  And we'd rather not, but one has to start.

Additionally, just as all of us at this party distanced, masked, isolated and got vaccinated just as fast as possible, all of us expect a big surge in September, if not before, of Delta.  Which could just shut down anything we're planning too.

A lot of uncertainty.  Also the bill for this is coming due, which means, among the worst parts, another friend died today of cancer, due to not having been seen by doctors when he should have been, due to everything devoted to covid treatment and patients.

 

 

[Fragile Bird]

The Far North in Canada is seeing the worst outbreak, in terms of % of population, in the country right now. 42 cases were reported on Saturday and another 30 today, all, subject to confirmation, apparently the Gamma variant (P-1), for a total of 100 cases.

The Yukon is the best vaccinated area of Canada, with 72.8% of the population with at least one dose, 62.8% fully vaccinated, 88.5% of those 12+ with one dose, and 76.4% of those  fully vaccinated. There are fewer than 43,000 people in the Yukon.

Most of the cases are mainly unvaccinated high school and grade school students in towns, with a smaller number in rural communities.

This just goes to show how a variant can really hit the unvaccinated. It sounds like a lot of kids celebrated the end of the school year together, believing that with such a high number of folks vaccinated they’d be fine.

[Fragile Bird]

A story just popped up on my Facebook page about an outbreak at a government office in Florida. Six people in the IT department were infected and two died, one in hospital and one outside of hospital. Four others were hospitalized. None of the six were vaccinated. One other person in the IT department was fully vaccinated and did not get infected. 
 

I think this is a story we’ll see repeated over and over. Look at the people in the Yukon.

[The Anti-Targ]

An Australian visited Wellington on the weekend and turned out to have been infected at the time. That person's infection is linked to the existing Sydney outbreakSo we're in a precautionary level 2 alert. Not a lockdown since everywhere that the person didn't visit is still open. But gatherings are limited to <100. Even though I live just outside Wellington our town is also at alert level 2 because a lot of us (including me) commute to Wellington for work. I only work in the city 2 days a week, I was there yesterday but not at any of the places that are now closed for a deep clean. However some colleagues have been to those places, but thankfully not during the time this person was there. One colleague was being lazy (self-described) and skipped her yoga class and it turns out the yoga instructor was in a museum at the same time as the infected person. So she potentially dodged a bullet. Another colleague's kids' school has been shut for today at least because 8 staff members were also at the same museum at the same time.

In New Zealand we talk about how there are only 2 degrees of separation with everyone in the country. This sort of thing kind of highlights our closeness because so many people know someone or know someone who knows someone who was at one of the locations of interest at the same time as this visitor.

Also, an elderly friend who recently got her first shot (Pfizer I think) was in hospital within 1 week of getting the vaccine with a pulmonary embolism. She leads a fairly sedentary life normally as she can only walk short distances with a walking frame, so thrombosis has always been a risk, but it is curious that the PE occurred soon after being vaccinated when she has been only semi-mobile for years. Doesn't make me wary of getting vaccinated when it's my turn, but maybe a bit of a risk factor to consider for people with pre-existing mobility issues that forces them into a fairly sedentary life, meaning deep vein thrombosis is more of a risk than for most people. She is fine and resting up at home now, but she will probably be on blood thinners for the rest of her life.

Also, if memory serves this will be the first time since June last year that my town has been at level 2.

[Clueless Northman]

Any idea how it spread to Sydney to begin with? Isn't there any kind of quarantine applied to absolutely every person who enters the country? Did someone caught it while working in the airport or harbour - only places I can think of where it's not realistic to quarantine people coming from abroad. Which makes me think that vaccinating people working there should be the top priority, since it's the main entry point for the virus, assuming quarantine hotels are handled seriously now.

Coincidentally, if O were in charge of NZ or Oz and if quarantine was to be lifted in a few months for people coming in with vaccine passes, I would make sure that using a fake certificate to enter the country would be considered akin to manslaughter and would be punished as such by the justice system.

[The Anti-Targ]

43 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said:

Any idea how it spread to Sydney to begin with? Isn't there any kind of quarantine applied to absolutely every person who enters the country? Did someone caught it while working in the airport or harbour - only places I can think of where it's not realistic to quarantine people coming from abroad. Which makes me think that vaccinating people working there should be the top priority, since it's the main entry point for the virus, assuming quarantine hotels are handled seriously now.

Coincidentally, if O were in charge of NZ or Oz and if quarantine was to be lifted in a few months for people coming in with vaccine passes, I would make sure that using a fake certificate to enter the country would be considered akin to manslaughter and would be punished as such by the justice system.

I have largely ignored the Sydney outbreak, until now. But I haven't looked into how it got out of quarantine. All of our breaches in the last 9 months have been people working in those facilities getting infected. The last occurrence turned out to be partly because the assurance that people working in these facilities are getting tested frequently was not totally true. So they've tightened up testing of border and quarantine staff.

Also correction: last time we were at level 2 was February, which was the last Auckland outbreak (they went to level 3, which is a lockdown level) linked to a quarantine worker, which incidentally also lead to a halt in arrivals from India, which was the source of a large number of in-quarantine cases and the number of cases arriving from India was straining the quarantine system.

Also, also I don't see us doing the vaccine passport thing until we ourselves are at 70% or 80% vaccine coverage (early next year hopefully). I also read that a majority of Australians do not want to relax border controls for at least another year. At that stage fraudulent vaccine passports won't be as much of a threat, but still should be a fineable and deportable offense. I would prefer perpetrators to not spend time in prison here because that just costs us money and brings some level of COVID-19 risk into the prison, send them packing and lighten their wallets by a few thousand dollars is good enough, and publish their name and photo in a hall of shame.

 

[Starkess]

Confirmed that my dad has not gotten vaccinated. Frustrating (I suspect due to my mom's fervent anti-vaxxerism), but at least he phrased it as a "yet" type of thing, so it sounds like he's not completely opposed just not feeling the need to rush into it. They live in a small town that didn't have much of an outbreak so I know the risk is relatively low, plus he suspects he may have had it early last year already, but it still doesn't make me feel good that both my parents are unprotected and for no good reason. And they're mid-60s and my mom is obese, so the risk isn't insignificant. Sigh.

On 6/20/2021 at 6:27 PM, Chataya de Fleury said:

Let’s all just take a nice, deep breath, and kumbayah. We all want the same thing, which is more vaccinations, fewer variants, more stability. A better economy. And cats that haven’t decided to not use a litterbox.

Ok, that last one was personal, but seriously, we still all want that, am I right?

Or bunnies. I just changed out the blanket that lines their cage and within an hour they peed on it. RIGHT NEXT to their litterbox. 

[Wall Flower]

54 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said:

Any idea how it spread to Sydney to begin with? Isn't there any kind of quarantine applied to absolutely every person who enters the country? Did someone caught it while working in the airport or harbour - only places I can think of where it's not realistic to quarantine people coming from abroad. Which makes me think that vaccinating people working there should be the top priority, since it's the main entry point for the virus, assuming quarantine hotels are handled seriously now.

Coincidentally, if O were in charge of NZ or Oz and if quarantine was to be lifted in a few months for people coming in with vaccine passes, I would make sure that using a fake certificate to enter the country would be considered akin to manslaughter and would be punished as such by the justice system.

I believe it was an unvaccinated subcontracted driver transporting US flight crew to quarantine. Obviously, there are questions being asked as to why he wasn't vaccinated. I think the answer given was that the subcontracting aspect made it difficult to police. The Melbourne outbreak started as a result of someone in Adelaide contracting COVID while actually in quarantine, so the hotel quarantine system is not foolproof. Our vaccine rollout (now known as the stroll out) has been a bit of a mess, made worse by a reliance on Astra Zeneca which is now not being recommended for anyone under 60 due to clotting risks.

[Impmk2]

2 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

Any idea how it spread to Sydney to begin with? Isn't there any kind of quarantine applied to absolutely every person who enters the country? Did someone caught it while working in the airport or harbour - only places I can think of where it's not realistic to quarantine people coming from abroad. Which makes me think that vaccinating people working there should be the top priority, since it's the main entry point for the virus, assuming quarantine hotels are handled seriously now.

A driver who was transporting flight crew to / from hotel quarantine was the first case. His vaccination status hasn't been shared yet, though I believe a report is due out tomorrow.

Most clusters which have spread into the community have been border workers at this point. The vast majority have been vaccinated. There is some resistance to making vaccinations a mandatory employment requirement, though I'm not really sure why.

Sydney is introducing many more restrictions right now, and the majority of other Australian states are closing their borders to the state of NSW. Hopefully they can bring this cluster under control quickly.

 

[The Anti-Targ]

Apparently our Sydney visitor had received one dose of the vaccine. So unfortunately he was part of the minority who do not get a decent immune response after one shot, or he was exposed to the virus before the vaccine had time to do its thing.

[Derfel Cadarn]

7 hours ago, Starkess said:

Confirmed that my dad has not gotten vaccinated. Frustrating (I suspect due to my mom's fervent anti-vaxxerism), but at least he phrased it as a "yet" type of thing, so it sounds like he's not completely opposed just not feeling the need to rush into it. They live in a small town that didn't have much of an outbreak so I know the risk is relatively low, plus he suspects he may have had it early last year already, but it still doesn't make me feel good that both my parents are unprotected and for no good reason. And they're mid-60s and my mom is obese, so the risk isn't insignificant. Sigh.

Or bunnies. I just changed out the blanket that lines their cage and within an hour they peed on it. RIGHT NEXT to their litterbox. 

One of my rabbits sits in the litterbox and pisses over the edge :<

[Clueless Northman]

6 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Apparently our Sydney visitor had received one dose of the vaccine. So unfortunately he was part of the minority who do not get a decent immune response after one shot, or he was exposed to the virus before the vaccine had time to do its thing.

Or it was delta, which has higher odds of infecting you after 1st dose than other variants.

Thanks for the details about recent infections. Make total sense, and alas if the whole system isn't totally fool-proof, breaches will occur from time to time. Hopefully vaccine rollout will speed up everywhere on this rock.

[DireWolfSpirit]

And again we are reminded that nearly all new deaths from the virus are entirely preventable in the U.S.

Those still dying from Covid in the US are 'overwhelmingly' unvaccinated

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/23/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html

"Walking into speeding traffic" is their choice in the vast majority of instances at this point. I'm at the point where I feel like I'm watching Darwin theatre play out. 

Staring into the Sun is avoidable!