Portugal - Germany (Group F): 2-4 (FT)

[Mark Antony]

Gosens is a freak. 

[Corvinus85]

And Portugal's goal difference is now 0. lol

[Rorshach]

Wonder how this defense will look against the Griezman - Mbappe - Benzema trio...

[Soylent Brown]

Bruno Fernandes looks like he needs a holiday.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, Nero C. C. A. Germanicus said:

Miroslav Klose was the German CF for a decade.

He scored for fun.

But what does that mean? I find soccer very hard to discern most of the time when it comes to strategy. >90% just seems random compared to American football or basketball, which I can breakdown basically everything that's happening and what's causing it, especially with the former.  

[Rorshach]

Hard to explain, because it is more random than American football

Generally, since plays aren't stopped every max 10 seconds, you get what seems to be random goals. But when you watch the movement of these random scorers, you see they are very adept at attacking empty space when they expect a ball to come in. The good ones also get it past the keeper.

Klose was great at that. If we go further back, Gary Lineker was also exceptional at it. I think he said that was his strategy - to attack an empty space when he expected the ball to come in. Most times, ball didn't reach him, but when it did he was alone in space in front of goal.

So some sort of randomness. But generally your teammates know where you're likely to run, if they don't see the run.

[Rorshach]

Worth mentioning that Thomas Müller also was exceptional at this just five years ago.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

So C. Ronaldo scored his first goal against Germany, yet Portugal are still bending over to help Germany win this. Altho, they'Ve now decided to actively participate in the game.

And Ronaldo is still in pursuit of Ali Daei's record.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

7 minutes ago, Nero C. C. A. Germanicus said:

Worth mentioning that Thomas Müller also was exceptional at this just five years ago.

Different kinda players tho. Klose prefered the space in the box, Müller usually floats around outside the box more. Talking about Klose, I am still curious whether he will follow Flick as an assistant, or if he is angling for a headcoach position himself. He is definately leaving Bayern and he has completed his coaching badges last month.

[Rorshach]

Sure, Klose was a box-striker, Müller has alwyas played more behind and on the wing. So they have different ways of finding the space, and face different challenges. 

 

[Corvinus85]

28 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

But what does that mean? I find soccer very hard to discern most of the time when it comes to strategy. >90% just seems random compared to American football or basketball, which I can breakdown basically everything that's happening and what's causing it, especially with the former.  

Klose had a knack for being in the right place, at the right time, and he was pretty precise. 

[Padraig]

1 hour ago, Nero C. C. A. Germanicus said:

There's a lot of attacking talent in this Portugal team.

They are lacking a bit defensively, though. Pepe is getting too old, Rui Patricio hasn't had a great season, Semedo isn't very solid, Guerreiro is best in attack.

Add to that Danilo and William Carvalho, who haven't had good seasons, and you have a recipie for letting in goals. 

When you put it like that, the problems with Portugal were clear.  Their central midfielders were totally overrun, which exposed their defense.  Although I don't think I was impressed with Portugal's midfield 5 years ago either.

I wonder how they'll do against France now.  Seems a major challenge but France aren't firing right now.

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, Nero C. C. A. Germanicus said:

Hard to explain, because it is more random than American football

Generally, since plays aren't stopped every max 10 seconds, you get what seems to be random goals. But when you watch the movement of these random scorers, you see they are very adept at attacking empty space when they expect a ball to come in. The good ones also get it past the keeper.

Klose was great at that. If we go further back, Gary Lineker was also exceptional at it. I think he said that was his strategy - to attack an empty space when he expected the ball to come in. Most times, ball didn't reach him, but when it did he was alone in space in front of goal.

So some sort of randomness. But generally your teammates know where you're likely to run, if they don't see the run.

Sounds like what Wayne Gretzky, The Great One, said about hockey: “I skate to where the puck is going, not where it has been”.

[Rorshach]

9 minutes ago, L'oiseau français said:

Sounds like what Wayne Gretzky, The Great One, said about hockey: “I skate to where the puck is going, not where it has been”.

Hockey is a lot faster, but I guess that principle is the same

Didn't he also say that he scored because he looked for the places the goalie wasn't, or was that Mario Lemieux?

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Mind explaining that a bit more for a noob?

I see others have already answered. Basically it's what has already been said. Germany are lacking a good #9 - someone who can attack the spaces, holds the ball up well, is strong in aerial duels and pins the opposing CBs. Miroslav Klose was great at that and players like Müller, Havertz and Werner also operate best playing off a proper CF. It didn't matter today since Portugal were wank but in the France game for instance, Germany came into it in the second half but with players who usually prefer floating in spaces outside the box or playing as wide forwards it made it a little too comfortable for the French CBs. While guys like Müller, Havertz and Gnabry are quality players, they lack that instinct of proper #9s and oftentimes don't make the classic CF runs.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Nero C. C. A. Germanicus said:

Hard to explain, because it is more random than American football

Generally, since plays aren't stopped every max 10 seconds, you get what seems to be random goals. But when you watch the movement of these random scorers, you see they are very adept at attacking empty space when they expect a ball to come in. The good ones also get it past the keeper.

Klose was great at that. If we go further back, Gary Lineker was also exceptional at it. I think he said that was his strategy - to attack an empty space when he expected the ball to come in. Most times, ball didn't reach him, but when it did he was alone in space in front of goal.

So some sort of randomness. But generally your teammates know where you're likely to run, if they don't see the run.

Well sure it's not the same as American football, but with basketball you can typically see two three passes before they happen if you know what to watch for. And I feel like that was true when I first started getting into soccer, which was after the 2010 WC. Spain was playing that kind of game and it seemed like that was true with Barca as well. You could rewatch a play and it seemed clear there was a designed plan to get the ball to one of their forwards in an area that set them up for high percentage scoring chances. But in the years since I haven't felt like I've seen anything quite like that. The German national team is actually probably the closest to it, at least from what I've seen.

 

[The Winged Shadow]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Well sure it's not the same as American football, but with basketball you can typically see two three passes before they happen if you know what to watch for. And I feel like that was true when I first started getting into soccer, which was after the 2010 WC. Spain was playing that kind of game and it seemed like that was true with Barca as well. You could rewatch a play and it seemed clear there was a designed plan to get the ball to one of their forwards in an area that set them up for high percentage scoring chances. But in the years since I haven't felt like I've seen anything quite like that. The German national team is actually probably the closest to it, at least from what I've seen.

 

It's probably harder to predict due to larger number of options, i.e. more people, more space to defend/attack, and therefore more options from the view point of the ball holder. But depending on how people defend/attack, the number of options can be significantly lower and you can predict it a bit easier. It depends on the players as well, who are the safe passers (Gini) and who are more brave on the ball (Hendo, TAA etc).

Also, maybe you just haven't watched the same team with same tactics long enough to really see the patterns. Liverpool can be pretty predictable. They had the same coach, same players and mostly the same tactics for years. So you can start to see the patterns after a while (i.e. almost always attack down the wings in a build up, so you kinda know what is coming). You go for Chelsea iirc? so that might be harder with the different coaches and some new players. But if they stick together, you will start to see the patterns soon enough.