Jump to content

Will Arya "Share" Nymeria with Sansa?


Lady Blooms

Recommended Posts

I highly doubt it. Sansa has done absolutely nothing to open her third eye. Has no teachers and  the books just aren't going to be long enough to go that way. Sansa has been set up since the early books to be the only Stark with political savvy. Shes learned from Cersei, Tyrion, The Tyrells, and Littlefinger first hand. Shes getting her real education now.  Littlefinger is an absolute expert at the game. Each one of the kids are getting an education in their stories where we left off. Bran from The 3 eyed crow on to be a seer. Arya is learning to be a faceless assassin and Jon is learning how to lead men and bring people together who's only common bond may be desire to live. Dany is also learning how to rule and ride dragon.

On 6/24/2021 at 7:27 AM, Nevets said:

I stand willing and able to step into the breach to defend any Stark I feel is being unfairly maligned.:D

Sansa has probably changed more than just about any other character.  She is way more observant, no longer takes things at face value, and any dreaminess has been thoroughly beaten out of her - literally and figuratively - by Joffrey and Cersei.  Her good nature and sense of decency, fortunately, were not.  And she's good at figuring stuff out when she puts her mind to it.  She just didn't bother in the beginning.

I do agree that Nymeria is Arya's to command.  And I put the blame for Lady's death where it belongs - on Joffrey, Cersei, and Robert.

I think Nymrtia will remain with her pack and just like Arya be too wild to control like Bran does Summer. She really hasn't had any training on opening her 3rd eye. I think her gift in this story has been and will continue to blend in in plain sight. She was always mistaken for a dirty little boy not the Hands daughter. That helped her escape kings landing and make it Harrenhal. Now she is training to be a faceless assassin. It wouldn't be fair if Geurge gave her supreme warging or skin changing ability. Thats just my gut feeling. Bran loses his ability to walk but gains skin changing and green seer abilities. If George left him able and strong he would be like a living God. I think Arya had to give up on her bond with Nymeria because if she could warg like Bran she would be unstoppable. I feel like Sansa just got screwed. Her wolf was murdered and all she gets in return are lessons in lying and figuring out people's deepest desires.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Impbread said:

I highly doubt it. Sansa has done absolutely nothing to open her third eye. Has no teachers and  the books just aren't going to be long enough to go that way. Sansa has been set up since the early books to be the only Stark with political savvy. Shes learned from Cersei, Tyrion, The Tyrells, and Littlefinger first hand. Shes getting her real education now.  Littlefinger is an absolute expert at the game. Each one of the kids are getting an education in their stories where we left off. Bran from The 3 eyed crow on to be a seer. Arya is learning to be a faceless assassin and Jon is learning how to lead men and bring people together who's only common bond may be desire to live. Dany is also learning how to rule and ride dragon.

I think Nymrtia will remain with her pack and just like Arya be too wild to control like Bran does Summer. She really hasn't had any training on opening her 3rd eye. I think her gift in this story has been and will continue to blend in in plain sight. She was always mistaken for a dirty little boy not the Hands daughter. That helped her escape kings landing and make it Harrenhal. Now she is training to be a faceless assassin. It wouldn't be fair if Geurge gave her supreme warging or skin changing ability. Thats just my gut feeling. Bran loses his ability to walk but gains skin changing and green seer abilities. If George left him able and strong he would be like a living God. I think Arya had to give up on her bond with Nymeria because if she could warg like Bran she would be unstoppable. I feel like Sansa just got screwed. Her wolf was murdered and all she gets in return are lessons in lying and figuring out people's deepest desires.

Arya is still dreaming of and connecting with Nymeria in her mind, from across the Narrow Sea, not to mention the fact she was seeing through the eyes of an alley cat in Braavos.  Arya already is using skinchanging and warging abilities.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Kinola said:

My guess is that Nymeria may have pups down the road, and one of the pups will be given to Sansa. Maybe.

Who's gonna be the daddy? One of the common wolves who get their throats torn out if they try to 'mount' a procreative offensive!?, never in heat from what i surmise

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/29/2021 at 4:52 PM, Impbread said:

I. Bran loses his ability to walk but gains skin changing and green seer abilities. If George left him able and strong he would be like a living God. I think Arya had to give up on her bond with Nymeria because if she could warg like Bran she would be unstoppable. I feel like Sansa just got screwed. Her wolf was murdered and all she gets in return are lessons in lying and figuring out people's deepest desires.

All the kids are/were skinchangers - you don't need to be physically impaired to be one. Forget the show. According to Varamyr Jon is a powerful one and so is Arya, since she does it across the Narrow Sea and with more than one kind of animal. Rickon was clearly actively skinchanging too. It would make sense if Sansa managed to develop her ability as well, with some animal that allowed her to gather information. Far from being gods, these kids need all the help they can get to be significant for the narrative. The Starks are 13, 11, 9-10 and 5-6 years old for Pete's sake! It would be completely implausible for them to do anything of importance without magic. At best they could be somebody's puppets. Even with magic it would be a huge, huge contrivance for them to be movers and shakers, frankly.

As to the actual subject of the thread - yes, I believe that either Nymeria or Shaggy (should anything happen to Rickon with his wolf surviving) will make their way to Sansa at some point - either to help her or to provide a proof of her identity. Doesn't mean that she'd bond them though - in fact I think it more likely that Bran would guide the wolf in question to her.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Maia said:

 

As to the actual subject of the thread - yes, I believe that either Nymeria or Shaggy (should anything happen to Rickon with his wolf surviving) will make their way to Sansa at some point - either to help her or to provide a proof of her identity. Doesn't mean that she'd bond them though - in fact I think it more likely that Bran would guide the wolf in question to her.  

Something more similar to what Bran/Summer did to help Jon at the queenscrown?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/29/2021 at 3:52 PM, Impbread said:

I think Nymrtia will remain with her pack and just like Arya be too wild to control like Bran does Summer. She really hasn't had any training on opening her 3rd eye. I think her gift in this story has been and will continue to blend in in plain sight. She was always mistaken for a dirty little boy not the Hands daughter. That helped her escape kings landing and make it Harrenhal. Now she is training to be a faceless assassin. It wouldn't be fair if Geurge gave her supreme warging or skin changing ability. Thats just my gut feeling. Bran loses his ability to walk but gains skin changing and green seer abilities. If George left him able and strong he would be like a living God. I think Arya had to give up on her bond with Nymeria because if she could warg like Bran she would be unstoppable. I feel like Sansa just got screwed. Her wolf was murdered and all she gets in return are lessons in lying and figuring out people's deepest desires.

This isn't the show. If you've read the books, you'll understand how deep this warg bond goes. It's for life. You have to understand Arya has tried to suppress the connection because the Night Wolf is so completely linked to "Arya Stark". She has failed every time. Arya is literally growling in her sleep as Cat of the Canals while warging Nym. And like someone already mentioned, Arya has already skin-changed a cat - one of the hardest animal minds to control. The first time was just after she drank the milk that made her blind... she went to sleep and entered the mind of a cat. She effortlessly, while awake and in the presence of other people, skin-changed a cat again and again. Also are you forgetting the political landscape of Braavos is about to change and the HoBW seems awfully interested in who takes control. Arya will be involved I think. 

Sorry, Arya isn't giving up her bond with Nymeria. Perhaps Bran will try and communicate with her and teach her how to unlock all her warg powers in the next book? It seems like, according to Arya's last wolf dream in TWOW, Bran is watching her as she wargs Nymeria. It'll be very interesting to see where that growing connection leads. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/23/2021 at 9:24 AM, StarksInTheNorth said:

I feel like if GRRM had more time (and pages) we might see Sansa warging into a bird or a dog (there was a close bond with the old dog at Petyr's castle in the Fingers) but there's so many other things to wrap up in the two books that are slightly bigger plot points, even for her (addressing the northern inheritance issue, Sweetrobin, Petyr's downfall, etc.) that I just don't think there's time for much more.

We can literally have Sansa discover her powers of skinchanging in the same chapter that the northern inheritance issue is dealt with.

Like the chapters in ASOIAF are multi-faceted and multi-layered.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

We can literally have Sansa discover her powers of skinchanging in the same chapter that the northern inheritance issue is dealt with.

Like the chapters in ASOIAF are multi-faceted and multi-layered.

 

 

Yes but the facets and layers typically pertain to the overarching plot. Don't get me wrong, Sansa is by far my favorite character and I would love for her to tie into that connection. I just don't see where the overarching role in plot or theme would be. Arya has wolf dreams in part to tell us about what happened to Cat, but also because Nymeria is hanging on the wall and ready to go off. Jon's connection with Ghost implies plot relevance to what happens to his soul/spirit/mind when he's 'dead.' Bran is a greenseer and facing his training.

Personally I can't see what the purpose of Sansa's powers showing up would be. It could still happen, but on the long list of things that have to happen in TWOW, I'd place it pretty low.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Clearly, there would be some justice in Arya “sharing” Nymeria with Sansa -- Lady was punished and killed in place of Nymeria and for Nymeria’s “crime” of biting Prince Joffrey.  It is precisely because of Nymeria that Sansa is without direwolf protection, why her connection to the Stark legacy is weaker.  There would be a great deal of pathos if Ned’s word came to fruition with Arya “sharing” Nymeria with Sansa, or more probably Nymeria sharing herself, as I believe it might be a naturally flowing occurrence rather than Arya actively doing something to “share.”

There is no justice in Arya sharing Nymeria with Sansa. To suggest that there is, is essentially saying that Nymeria was wrong to protect Arya from being murdered by Joffrey. This is an argument that's very common when it comes to Sansa fans, probably because they're in deep with Sansa's POV and she believes this. The narrative makes it clear that she is wrong to believe her sister should have died and that Joffrey did nothing wrong when he attacked her and Mycah. But there is no rationale for readers to think the same. 

If OP really wants justice, they should be looking for Cersei to share something with Sansa to make things equal since she, unlike Arya and Nymeria, is at fault for Lady's death.

But really, that's completely missing the point of Lady's death. The death of the animal that is part of her soul is intended to have a permanent impact on her. Getting a replacement would undercut this and weaken that part of the story. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/23/2021 at 10:37 AM, StarksInTheNorth said:

Yes but the facets and layers typically pertain to the overarching plot. Don't get me wrong, Sansa is by far my favorite character and I would love for her to tie into that connection. I just don't see where the overarching role in plot or theme would be. Arya has wolf dreams in part to tell us about what happened to Cat, but also because Nymeria is hanging on the wall and ready to go off. Jon's connection with Ghost implies plot relevance to what happens to his soul/spirit/mind when he's 'dead.' Bran is a greenseer and facing his training.

Personally I can't see what the purpose of Sansa's powers showing up would be. It could still happen, but on the long list of things that have to happen in TWOW, I'd place it pretty low.

Good points.

But it doesn't have to happen in Winds. It can happen in Dream

And if she is slated to hear or see something that she wasn't supposed to and must now be responsible for information no one knows she has, the skinchanging is the perfect tool for that. Case in point: outmaneuvering Littlefinger

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/24/2021 at 5:56 AM, MissM said:

This is unfortunately a very common headcanon for some hardcore Sansa fans who blame Arya/Nymeria for what happened to Lady. 

Most unfortunate and also very incorrect.

On 6/24/2021 at 9:55 AM, Lady Blooms said:

Blame for lady’s death def on Joff and Cersei and Robert’s weakness but lady’s death was in place of her sister Nymeria

I do not think Sansa's behaviour herself was innocent in Lady's death. Were she to have stood up more for Arya instead of deceitfully allowing herself to go along with Joffrey and Cersei's version of events, Lady and the Butchers boy may have been able to be spared.

Sansa painted the whole situation into a corner with her own refusal to truthfully retell the events, she endangered Arya and facilitated Lady and the BB's demise.

Her actions were appalling in this event and No Arya will not be sharing Nymeria to compensate for a situation Sansa helped create imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Most unfortunate and also very incorrect.

I do not think Sansa's behaviour herself was innocent in Lady's death. Were she to have stood up more for Arya instead of deceitfully allowing herself to go along with Joffrey and Cersei's version of events, Lady and the Butchers boy may have been able to be spared.

Sansa painted the whole situation into a corner with her own refusal to truthfully retell the events, she endangered Arya and facilitated Lady and the BB's demise.

I'm going to disagree pretty heavily on the emphasized point. The only people at fault for Mycah's death in particular are the Hound (who did the action), and Cersei and Joffrey, who ordered it. Sansa's truth or lies were unable to affect it.

Cersei or Jaime's POV in later books makes it pretty clear that Cersei had ordered the Lannister search parties to kill all three: Nymeria, Mycah, and even Arya, the Hand's daughter. Even if Sansa spoke up during the "hearing" before Robert, the search parties were already out looking for them. We don't know exactly what hour Mycah died, just that his body was returned right after Ned killed Lady. But we also know that the Hound doesn't realize that Arya has been found when he returns with Mycah: "No sign of your daughter, Hand," the Hound rasped down, "but the day was not wholly wasted. We got her little pet."

Thus, even if Sansa tells the truth and messengers go out to say that Arya's been found, the issue is handled, prepare to move on out to King's Landing, the Hound still would have found and killed Mycah.

The "Lady's death as fate's punishment for Sansa's lies" point has been argued to tears in other places, so I won't address that much, save to say that I'm firmly in the camp of "Ned should have briefed Sansa before asking an eleven-year-old to further piss off the man-child she's expected to marry in a few years." Because telling the truth isn't actually that easy when Sansa thinks the betrothal is legitimate, and her last know reaction with Joffrey was this:

His eyes snapped open and looked at her, and there was nothing but loathing there, nothing but the vilest contempt. "Then go," he spit at her. "And don't touch me."

Making her betrothed and his mother even angrier, when they've only known each other for a few weeks/months, is not the way to have a strong foundation for their eventual marriage. This is a major flaw of Ned's parenting that we see time and time again where he doesn't communicate particularly well with his daughters. Sansa had already told Ned the whole story in the four days Arya was missing, so he should have recognized that "Joffrey tried to hurt Mycah and then fought Arya" is a bad story to tell someone with a Lannister's pride. Recognizing that and having a short conversation with Sansa, "I know the truth isn't great, but it's still important to tell it," would have been a better parenting move then just expecting a child to know what to do. 

Unfortunately, this is a pretty egregious instant that could have stopped a lot of pain and suffering between them all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I do not think Sansa's behaviour herself was innocent in Lady's death. Were she to have stood up more for Arya instead of deceitfully allowing herself to go along with Joffrey and Cersei's version of events, Lady and the Butchers boy may have been able to be spared.

Unfortunately a very common headcanon for some hardcore Sansa haters.

The butcher's boy was already dead (no way would Cersei have allowed him to live anyway - otherwise he could dine out the rest of his life on the story of Joffrey's humiliation.)

The direwolves' days were numbered as well:

Quote

The queen shuddered. "There is something unnatural about those animals," she said. "They are dangerous. I will not have any of them coming south with us."

Jaime said, "You'll have a hard time stopping them, sister. They follow those girls everywhere."

As far as Cersei is concerned, what she wants, she gets. Please no-one try to suggest she shrugged her shoulders and decided to get over it.

Quote

Sansa painted the whole situation into a corner with her own refusal to truthfully retell the events, she endangered Arya and facilitated Lady and the BB's demise.

She said she couldn't remember, and it was confusing. That must have taken a few seconds. You can bet Ned put her on the stand to say more than that (his thoughts were of the entire story she gave him). Unfortunately he had no chance to prompt her because Arya launched into her and beat her up in front of Robert, who called a halt to the hearing.

But also, Sansa is put into these 'court' situations repeatedly (Cersei and the Small Council, pleading for Ned to Joffrey on the Iron Throne, questioning from the Lords of the Vale) - so we know how she acts. Silence is not her thing. She makes herself as beautiful as she possibly can, and then flatters and charms and pleads as if her life depends on it. The set up is the same here. 'A tear rolled down her cheek. That's good, a tear is good.' Exactly the same.

Quote

Her actions were appalling in this event and No Arya will not be sharing Nymeria to compensate for a situation Sansa helped create imo.

Joffrey is entitled to beat up a butcher's boy if he wants. Arya is not entitled to hurt the crown prince, or let her wolf do so. That is the situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/24/2021 at 3:37 PM, Lady Blooms said:

OP here. I don’t think I’m meant or implied sharing like suddenly Sansa wargs Nymeria. Rather that Nymeria might protect Sansa or in some way remind Sansa of her “starkness”. What I wrote was: “I’m not suggesting that Nymeria will be fully shared by Sansa and Arya or even that Sansa will warg into Nymeria, but merely that Nymeria, who has already shown herself willing and able to save another Stark family member, might serve as the link that helps Sansa reconnect with her Stark roots”

And this is easily possible.  It has already happened to Cat - who is a Seven worshipper, and actually found the old god religion a bit sinister - but after the catspaw attack, she shares a significant bonding moment with Summer:  

Quote

"Thank you," Catelyn whispered, her voice faint and tiny. She lifted her hand, trembling. The wolf padded closer, sniffed at her fingers, then licked at the blood with a wet, rough tongue. When it had cleaned all the blood off her hand, it turned away silently and jumped up on Bran's bed and lay down beside him.

It's not warging, but it's not a naturalistic scene either. Real wolves don't behave like that. (Real wounds don't stop bleeding like that either.) It's part of the special, supernatural nature of these direwolves.

After that, Catelyn connects with the Stark roots. She champions the direwolves: These wolves are more than wolves, Robb, You must know that. I think perhaps the gods sent them to us. Your father's gods, the old gods of the north.

She even prays in the godswood.

ETA'

Grey Wind likes her too - comes forward to greet her and have his head patted, then nips 'playfully' at her fingers, just as the direwolves do with their own child. So that's Summer, Grey Wind and Nymeria all think Cat is now part of the pack. Pretty good bonding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Springwatch said:

And this is easily possible.  It has already happened to Cat - who is a Seven worshipper, and actually found the old god religion a bit sinister - but after the catspaw attack, she shares a significant bonding moment with Summer:  

It's not warging, but it's not a naturalistic scene either. Real wolves don't behave like that. (Real wounds don't stop bleeding like that either.) It's part of the special, supernatural nature of these direwolves.

After that, Catelyn connects with the Stark roots. She champions the direwolves: These wolves are more than wolves, Robb, You must know that. I think perhaps the gods sent them to us. Your father's gods, the old gods of the north.

She even prays in the godswood.

ETA'

Grey Wind likes her too - comes forward to greet her and have his head patted, then nips 'playfully' at her fingers, just as the direwolves do with their own child. So that's Summer, Grey Wind and Nymeria all think Cat is now part of the pack. Pretty good bonding.

And there is another Cat connection with direwolves... Nymeria is the one who pulled her dead body out of the river and leaves her body when Harwin, Lem, Beric and thoros arrive, leading to her rebirth as Lady Stoneheart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, SocratesSnow said:

Granted that Sansa has the potential to warg, why is it assumed that she will?  

Because if the potential doesn't lead anywhere, it's pointless. Adding pointless details is bad writing, and GRRM is not a bad writer. So he's likely going somewhere with Sansa's warging abilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Because if the potential doesn't lead anywhere, it's pointless. Adding pointless details is bad writing, and GRRM is not a bad writer. So he's likely going somewhere with Sansa's warging abilities.

I don't know if it is "pointless" just because there is unused potential. That seems like another assumption, or just a matter of opinion. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...