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Falcon2909

did jon arryn know about jon snow's true identity?

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Posted (edited)

assuming jon is the son of lyanna and rhaegar, did jon arryn know about snow's true parentage? ned stark was raised by him for over 8 years. during that time arryn came to know him well, he became his son of sorts. 

arryn must've known how honourable ned is. honourable to his wife to not cheat on her. did he suspect that snow wasn't his bastard son? did he think it was somebody else's like lyannas ?

Edited by Falcon2909

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48 minutes ago, Falcon2909 said:

assuming jon is the son of lyanna and rhaegar, did jon arryn know about snow's true parentage? ned stark was raised by him for over 8 years. during that time arryn came to know him well, he became his son of sorts. 

arryn must've known how honourable ned is. honourable to his wife to not cheat on her. did he suspect that snow wasn't his bastard son? did he think it was somebody else's like lyannas ?

If Arryn knew, Ned would have thought about it. Or tried to not think about it.

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It's hard to say, I honestly wish we knew more about Jon Arryn. The way the guy is described to us, he almost feels like a Gary Stu, who was good at just about everything.

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I wouldn't be shocked in Jon knew, but Robert knew Ned just as long and never suspected. But yeah i agree with sifth. Jon arryn is such an interesting character that we never really got to know at all.

All I want is a chapter or novella of Jon getting Aerys demands to hand Ned over and him deciding to raise his banners in rebellion. A roberts rebellion series would have been amazing.

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I'm sure that he didn't knew, otherwise he would have told about it to Robert. At least on his deathbed. He did tried to tell to Robert unplesant truth that Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were not his children. So if he wanted to clear his consciousness prior his death, and he knew about Jon Snow's real parentage, then he would have tried to reveal to Robert that Jon is Lyanna's child, not Ned's.

I think that the only people besides Ned who knew about Jon's real origin are Howland Reed, Ashara Dayne (currently known under name Jyana Reed, Howland's wife), maester Marwyn (who possibly assister Lyanna during Jon's birth), and Wylla (who became Jon's wetnurse after Lyanna's death).

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12 hours ago, sifth said:

It's hard to say, I honestly wish we knew more about Jon Arryn. The way the guy is described to us, he almost feels like a Gary Stu, who was good at just about everything.

He wasn’t good enough, as evidenced by Ned’s fall (Ned’s famous honor was primarily influenced by Jon) and Jon being unable to keep Robert and the realm from spiraling out of control.

Though I wonder: what did Jon do to pacify Dorne outside of returning bones? Because that’s never enough to stop a war as we know from the series proper.

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3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

He wasn’t good enough, as evidenced by Ned’s fall (Ned’s famous honor was primarily influenced by Jon) and Jon being unable to keep Robert and the realm from spiraling out of control.

Though I wonder: what did Jon do to pacify Dorne outside of returning bones? Because that’s never enough to stop a war as we know from the series proper.

Gary Stu characters can die and even lose. Cooper from Twin Peaks is a perfect example of this. Jon just seems like he's described as the greatest Lord of House Arryn, that ever was or ever will be. I mean his only real character fault is having a hard time conceiving a child, which isn't exactly something he can control. I mean the guy kept an idiot like Robert in power and was able to give the 7 Kingdom nearly 20 years of relative peace. Aside from Balon and his rebellion, I don't believe there were any wars or any massive cases of people trying to kill each other.

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18 hours ago, sifth said:

It's hard to say, I honestly wish we knew more about Jon Arryn. The way the guy is described to us, he almost feels like a Gary Stu, who was good at just about everything.

Jon Arryn also receives a pretty lousy endorsement from his wife, Lysa Tully. He had bad breath and was lousy in the sack. Does'nt that disqualify him from Gary Stu status?

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1 hour ago, Ravage said:

Jon Arryn also receives a pretty lousy endorsement from his wife, Lysa Tully. He had bad breath and was lousy in the sack. Does'nt that disqualify him from Gary Stu status?

To be fair Lysa is evil……….and quite insane, lol 

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Posted (edited)

Plus, Jon apparently didn't find anything wrong with Janos Slynt the dirty cop, who turned out to be, well, a greedy man who led a massacre of children.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Plus, Jon apparently didn't find anything wrong with Janos Slynt the dirty cop, who turned out to be, well, a greedy man who led a massacre of children.

So you’re faulting the guy for not predicting the future? Also wasn’t the event you’re talking about is something only in the show? Only one kid was killed in ACoK’s and it was by a different member of the city watch; one Tyrion has killed on his trip to the Wall.

Edited by sifth

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1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Plus, Jon apparently didn't find anything wrong with Janos Slynt the dirty cop, who turned out to be, well, a greedy man who led a massacre of children.

Jon was the one who brought him to justice and notoriously wanted him gone. He was overruled by Robert, who was in turn convinced by Petyr, per Stannis.

 

 

5 hours ago, sifth said:

Jon just seems like he's described as the greatest Lord of House Arryn, that ever was or ever will be.

So are Robert or Ned for their respective houses, well Cregan is described as the perfect Lord of Winterfell but Ned did give House Stark its greatest status of power.

It's funny that the three of them took their houses to their highest and then brought them to their lowest.

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2 hours ago, frenin said:

Jon was the one who brought him to justice and notoriously wanted him gone. He was overruled by Robert, who was in turn convinced by Petyr, per Stannis.

 

Isn’t there a passage in Jon II, ADWD where it says that Jon appointed Slynt?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Isn’t there a passage in Jon II, ADWD where it says that Jon appointed Slynt?

The novels do mention that Jon Arryn tried to remove him from office, but Robert over ruled him, after both of Jon Arry's witness were killed. I just forget what book this was from.

Edited by sifth

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9 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Isn’t there a passage in Jon II, ADWD where it says that Jon appointed Slynt?

He did appoint him but once he discovered he was an scumbang and tried to remove him from office he was overruled.

 

 

8 hours ago, sifth said:

The novels do mention that Jon Arryn tried to remove him from office, but Robert over ruled him, after both of Jon Arry's witness were killed. I just forget what book this was from.

ASOS after the battle of the wall.

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Jon Arryn was the one who Littlefinger the finances of the realm and was apparently oblivious to him embezzling a staggering sum of money. You could argue it wasn't Roberts fault the crown was massively in debt, but rather Jon Arryns fault. Then the very same person conspired to have him poisoned. I would hardly describe him as a "Gary Stu".

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/24/2021 at 9:30 PM, Falcon2909 said:

did jon arryn know about snow's true parentage?

Who knows... there is no evidence of it, unless you want to point to his visit to Dorne not long after the rebellion. My question back to you is what are the implications to the story if he knew? I don't think there really are any, save for the fact that JA clearly would have hidden the knowledge from Robert. 

I agree with other responses that if Jon Arryn knew, Ned did not know of JA's knowledge, or else he might have thought of it.  So that probably means that if JA did learn about it, it was through Varys or through intelligence gathered through this Dornish trip I mentioned. 

Clearly he learned some things on that trip that concerned him, and made him worry about war, but he also made the decision to make peace with the Matrtells instead of escalating.  This seems to fit his general character, as would hiding Ned's secret about Jon. 

Edited by The Green Bard
sentence fragment

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On 6/24/2021 at 9:30 PM, Falcon2909 said:

assuming jon is the son of lyanna and rhaegar, did jon arryn know about snow's true parentage? ned stark was raised by him for over 8 years. during that time arryn came to know him well, he became his son of sorts. 

arryn must've known how honourable ned is. honourable to his wife to not cheat on her. did he suspect that snow wasn't his bastard son? did he think it was somebody else's like lyannas ?

I've wondered if people chose to believe Ned's story about Jon being his bastard (if R+L=J) because it's what people wanted to believe (I could just imagine Jaime thinking that considering how much he resented Ned and his judging eyes). They wanted to see if the honorable Ned Stark could be taken down a peg and when Ned returns to King's Landing with Howland Reed, a set of bones, and Jon Snow in tow, people harped on the chance to whisper behind their hands. When people bring up a spot on Ned's reputation (aside from how much of a screwup he is in the one book he's alive for) it's siring Jon Snow and dishonoring Catelyn by doing so.

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50 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I've wondered if people chose to believe Ned's story about Jon being his bastard (if R+L=J) because it's what people wanted to believe (I could just imagine Jaime thinking that considering how much he resented Ned and his judging eyes). They wanted to see if the honorable Ned Stark could be taken down a peg and when Ned returns to King's Landing with Howland Reed, a set of bones, and Jon Snow in tow, people harped on the chance to whisper behind their hands. When people bring up a spot on Ned's reputation (aside from how much of a screwup he is in the one book he's alive for) it's siring Jon Snow and dishonoring Catelyn by doing so.

It's an interesting aspect of the question, but was Ned at the time known as the famously honourable Ned Stark of Winterfell in places like King's Landing? He was about 20 years old, and, not long before, he had been merely a second son of the lord of a distant region. Now, he was a high lord, one of the leaders of the rebels and a friend of the new king, but had he had enough time to establish a widespread reputation as this extremely honourable person? Of course, it's possible he became famous for unusually honourable behaviour during the war... (So, now I want a singer to come forward and tell me all about it.)

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1 hour ago, Julia H. said:

It's an interesting aspect of the question, but was Ned at the time known as the famously honourable Ned Stark of Winterfell in places like King's Landing? He was about 20 years old, and, not long before, he had been merely a second son of the lord of a distant region. Now, he was a high lord, one of the leaders of the rebels and a friend of the new king, but had he had enough time to establish a widespread reputation as this extremely honourable person? Of course, it's possible he became famous for unusually honourable behaviour during the war... (So, now I want a singer to come forward and tell me all about it.)

Maybe protesting against the Sack of King’s Landing and decrying the death of King Aerys at the hands of his Kingsguard despite the fact that most people would not bat an eye at that or not be unhappy that the madman was dead?

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