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One-dimensional characters


Springwatch

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Following on from the 'nameless but essential characters' thread, I'm on a hunt for characters too.

What I'm looking for is characters with a name, but no complexity. I'm thinking of second-level characters, who have a clear personality that sticks - they do not have hidden depths, they are not going on an arc, they only have one name and one identity and that's it.

I was going to say Tommen is the perfect example, but even he doesn't know who his father is, which is a complication I didn't want. So let's say, characters like Syrio. Salladhor Saan. It's not totally easy, because most simple characters are so minor they don't need much characterisation at all.

Any ideas?

The reason for asking is I'm interested in how GRRM constructs names, how he decides which combination of sounds/letters best suits the character he's writing. Or, what would be really cool would be if names were the seeds in his 'gardening' method, so for example, so he might come across the name 'Poppaea' and immediately have some ideas about who and what Poppaea could be in asoiaf. (She'd have a good chance of being a Targ for a start. Or not?)

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1 hour ago, Springwatch said:

Following on from the 'nameless but essential characters' thread, I'm on a hunt for characters too.

What I'm looking for is characters with a name, but no complexity. I'm thinking of second-level characters, who have a clear personality that sticks - they do not have hidden depths, they are not going on an arc, they only have one name and one identity and that's it.

I was going to say Tommen is the perfect example, but even he doesn't know who his father is, which is a complication I didn't want. So let's say, characters like Syrio. Salladhor Saan. It's not totally easy, because most simple characters are so minor they don't need much characterisation at all.

Any ideas?

The reason for asking is I'm interested in how GRRM constructs names, how he decides which combination of sounds/letters best suits the character he's writing. Or, what would be really cool would be if names were the seeds in his 'gardening' method, so for example, so he might come across the name 'Poppaea' and immediately have some ideas about who and what Poppaea could be in asoiaf. (She'd have a good chance of being a Targ for a start. Or not?)

I’d say Ser Gregor Clegane and Vargo Hoat are one dimensional.

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48 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Rorge and Biter are one-dimensional. And Ser Clayton Suggs.

I agree with the first two, but Clayton Suggs isn't one-dimensional. There's more to him than just being a misogynistic sadistic brute. He's very loyal to Stannis, loyal enough that he travelled all the way to the Wall and into the snows with him. And when the riders approach Stannis' camp, he doesn't hesitate to throw himself forward as a living barrier, prepared to die fighting. Those aren't the actions of a simple bully. Stannis clearly saw some worth in having Clayton around, and Clayton is loyal in return. 

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I would disagree with the notion that any character is one-dimensional. Even minor characters tend to have a symbolic purpose, in my experience. 

Having said that, I could contribute some nominees for consideration. I would be curious whether people see these characters as one-dimensional:

Ser Vardis Egan

Guyard Morrigen

Parmen Crane

Alysanne Bulwer

Alyce Graceford

Grenn

Leathers

"Drearfort" servants Umfred, Grisel, Bryen, and Kella.

Horas and Hobber Redwyne

Melara Hetherspoon

The sister of the captain of the guard at Duskendale who repaints Brienne's shield - Feast, Chap. 9.

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2 hours ago, Seams said:

I would disagree with the notion that any character is one-dimensional. Even minor characters tend to have a symbolic purpose, in my experience. 

Having said that, I could contribute some nominees for consideration. I would be curious whether people see these characters as one-dimensional:

Ser Vardis Egan

My take on Vardis Egan: in a humorous way he is part of the perfect knight -> soiled knight theme. He joins Arys, Jamie, Lancel, Bonifer and Aemon the Dragonknight. Vardis is Lysa's champion but dies as a soiled knight with a "queen" on top.

Quote

Ser Vardis lunged at where he had been, striking a spark off the pale marble of Alyssa's thigh.

<...>

The knight crashed into the weeping woman, rocking her on her plinth.

<...>

Deep shiny gashes gleamed all over the knight’s armor, on his right thigh, his beaked visor, crossing on his breastplate, a long one along the front of his gorget.

<..>

Alyssa Arryn tottered and fell with a great crash, and Ser Vardis Egen went down beneath her.

<...>

Ser Vardis was lying on his side, pinned beneath the broken torso of the weeping woman.

 

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Thanks everyone, much to think on already. Villains are obviously a good category to go for, so few of them change - although Gregor and Biter have forgotten their names later on (Theon says you have to remember your name, to know who you are).

@Seams Maybe 'one-dimensional'  is the wrong description, but I wanted to start simple; a fixed, clear personality - Kella is perfect. I'll think some more on the others later on when I get time.

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On 6/26/2021 at 9:44 PM, Canon Claude said:

I’d say Ser Gregor Clegane and Vargo Hoat are one dimensional.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 1:05 AM, Nathan Stark said:

Rorge and Biter are one-dimensional. And Ser Clayton Suggs.

 

Well that's interesting. Since the show explained Hodor's name as a sound-alike, I've paid more attention to the bits of the books that emphasise names as sounds, e.g. "Euron Greyjoy sounds queerly like Urron Greyiron...", and Reek sounds like almost anything 'eek'. I think there's more I can't remember. Anyway, sounds should be the first approach to thinking on names, but at the same time, who could make any sense out of stuff like that?

It doesn't seem possible that many names are sound-alikes, but we've got one here: it looks likely that when grrm was constructing a name for the leader of the brave companions, he started with the word 'goat' --> go oat --> Vargo Hoat, sometimes called 'the goat', wears a goat helm, has arms showing the Black Goat of Qohor. Which is a god, one of the faces of the Many-Faced God. (Vargo definitely meets the criteria for simple yet strong characterisation).

I can imagine sounds inspiring other names: Rorge could derive from rage, Gregor could be a de-constructed ogre. (Biter is obviously exactly what it says on the tin.) But this is all very hit and miss - I'm more hopeful the letters of the names will more obviously fall into patterns; like we can already see patterns in family names, the 'Ty' in house Lannister for example.

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16 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

 

 

Well that's interesting. Since the show explained Hodor's name as a sound-alike, I've paid more attention to the bits of the books that emphasise names as sounds, e.g. "Euron Greyjoy sounds queerly like Urron Greyiron...", and Reek sounds like almost anything 'eek'. I think there's more I can't remember. Anyway, sounds should be the first approach to thinking on names, but at the same time, who could make any sense out of stuff like that?

It doesn't seem possible that many names are sound-alikes, but we've got one here: it looks likely that when grrm was constructing a name for the leader of the brave companions, he started with the word 'goat'. go oat. Vargo Hoat, sometimes called 'the goat', wears a goat helm, has arms showing the Black Goat of Qohor. Which is a god, one of the faces of the Many-Faced God. (Vargo definitely meets the criteria for simple yet strong characterisation).

I can imagine sounds inspiring other names: Rorge could derive from rage, Gregor could be a de-constructed ogre. (Biter is obviously exactly what it says on the tin.) But this is all very hit and miss - I'm more hopeful the letters of the names will more obviously fall into patterns; like we can already see patterns in family names, the 'Ty' in house Lannister for example.

It seems like you should be starting with a list of characters with interesting sounding names rather than a list of one-dimensional characters.

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There are a lot of one dimensional minor characters. But it’s more interesting to talk about one-dimensional mains. I think Sansa is pretty much a character who has little depth. While not exactly one dimensional, she is not complex. Her dominant trait is selfishness.  

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4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

There are a lot of one dimensional minor characters. But it’s more interesting to talk about one-dimensional mains. I think Sansa is pretty much a character who has little depth. While not exactly one dimensional, she is not complex. Her dominant trait is selfishness.  

You obviously haven't read her chapters if your takeaway is that she is one dimensional. And her dominant trait is perseverence, not selfishness. Sansa goes through more development in A Clash of Kings than any other character.

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6 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

There are a lot of one dimensional minor characters. But it’s more interesting to talk about one-dimensional mains. I think Sansa is pretty much a character who has little depth. While not exactly one dimensional, she is not complex. Her dominant trait is selfishness.  

Mains are more interesting, but minors are easier to understand - that's why I asked for minors, to see why their name suits them.

Main characters go on a journey, change their clothes, their hair, their name, their ambitions, they lose their roots, they get owned by other people. That's what I mean by complex. The name's still important, just probably best left to the end.

 

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On 6/27/2021 at 1:05 AM, Nathan Stark said:

Rorge and Biter are one-dimensional. And Ser Clayton Suggs.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 1:57 AM, James Steller said:

I agree with the first two, but Clayton Suggs isn't one-dimensional. There's more to him than just being a misogynistic sadistic brute. He's very loyal to Stannis, loyal enough that he travelled all the way to the Wall and into the snows with him. And when the riders approach Stannis' camp, he doesn't hesitate to throw himself forward as a living barrier, prepared to die fighting. Those aren't the actions of a simple bully. Stannis clearly saw some worth in having Clayton around, and Clayton is loyal in return. 

 

Clayton Suggs is a loyal beast, or a fanatic beast - that's simple enough for me. I'm filing him next to Ramsay, because of the shared 'ay', and because they both obviously suffer an excess of hot red blood which badly needs leeching away. With them I'll put Chataya and Alayaya, who are both of the 'blood of summer' - which is neat and sweet. :)

Definitely something there - makes me think of 'day', Dayne, Daenerys maybe. Need to look up more names - I'd expect more neutrals/uncharacterised than 'hot', but no 'cold' characters like Roose. (Roose and Ramsay got me started on this quest, but they're not wholly simple - they've both got ice in their eyes for a start.)

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On 6/28/2021 at 11:10 PM, Groo said:

It seems like you should be starting with a list of characters with interesting sounding names rather than a list of one-dimensional characters.

That would be looking down the other end of the telescope; and probably already in the 'puns and wordplay' threads if I could find them. I'll stick with character-first for the moment.

Here's a list of interesting names though - all the major characters with pronunciations:

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Pronunciation_guide

Some of these pronunciations rock my world :wacko: - serr-see for heaven's sake, and serr-say? What happened to serr-s-eye? That's what I always thought it was.

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On 6/29/2021 at 1:12 PM, Nathan Stark said:

You obviously haven't read her chapters if your takeaway is that she is one dimensional. And her dominant trait is perseverence, not selfishness. Sansa goes through more development in A Clash of Kings than any other character.

You obviously don’t understand Sansa’s character, even if there isn’t much to understand. Sansa is selfish and she’s basically an airhead. Not evil, but definitely not a deep character.

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30 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

You obviously don’t understand Sansa’s character, even if there isn’t much to understand. Sansa is selfish and she’s basically an airhead. Not evil, but definitely not a deep character.

She's written to be controversial; people like to argue about her - that alone makes her too complicated for this thread.

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16 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

You obviously don’t understand Sansa’s character, even if there isn’t much to understand. Sansa is selfish and she’s basically an airhead. Not evil, but definitely not a deep character.

Lol, says the guy who clearly skimmed the first couple Sansa chapters in AGoT and skipped the rest. It's pretty clear you have no clue what you're talking about.

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