One-dimensional characters

[Nevets]

Not sure what you are looking for, but here are some possibilities.

Edric Dayne and Podrick Payne - both squires following knights that aren't quite real.  Beric is (sort of) dead, and Brienne is female.  I think of them as the "-ayne boys", and have been known to ship both of them with Arya.  I suspect, however, that the similarity in their names is coincidental, as they are related to already established characters

The two Jeynes - Jeyne Poole and Jeyne Westerling.  Both are young girls who are closely connected to the Starks and married quite young.  They are also both in a position to make trouble for their (and the Starks') enemies.

The Manderlys.  They all have names beginning with Wy-.  Wyman has some depth, but the rest are pretty undeveloped, though I have future hopes for Wylla (the Stark fan with the green hair).

[Lord Browndodd]

Garlan the Gallant.

[Springwatch]

On 6/27/2021 at 3:02 AM, Seams said:

I would disagree with the notion that any character is one-dimensional. Even minor characters tend to have a symbolic purpose, in my experience. 

Having said that, I could contribute some nominees for consideration. I would be curious whether people see these characters as one-dimensional:

I used to able to read deeply and have characters come alive on the page - not so much nowadays, a lot of minor characters feel fairly flat. Sometimes there are more dots to be connected than I noticed. Anyway,

On 6/27/2021 at 3:02 AM, Seams said:

Ser Vardis Egan

Honourable. Humourless. Jon Arryn's sidekick, but his main identity seems to be as an anti-Bronn. GRRM seems to like matches between heavily armoured knights and lightly armoured others (usually scoundrels  and sellswords) - KG/Syrio, Mountain/Oberyn, Barristan/pit fighter...

On 6/27/2021 at 3:02 AM, Seams said:

Guyard Morrigen

Parmen Crane

Main identity: Rainbow Guard, the knights of summer, Renly's kingdom. Looking at the wiki, the colours of the rainbow guard are only a step or shade away from their original arms, so it feels like grrm is choosing according to a theme, rather than letting probabilities decide who got the job. But again, I've no idea how he came up with the names.

On 6/27/2021 at 3:02 AM, Seams said:

Alysanne Bulwer

Alyce Graceford

Margaery's hens. Don't know, don't know.

Aysanne brings another dimension in, because there are lots of Aysannes. What to do with that? Old Nan has come to believe that all Brandons are the same Brandon - but that in itself is quite an enormous idea to deal with. Avoid.

On 6/27/2021 at 3:02 AM, Seams said:

Grenn

Leathers

Simple characters, simple names - sounds perfect, I will look them up.

On 6/27/2021 at 3:02 AM, Seams said:

"Drearfort" servants Umfred, Grisel, Bryen, and Kella.

These characters feel important because they are Petyr's roots, and astonishingly, they seem to like him and he seems to like them. Kella is like a fertility goddess, and was suggested as Sansa's proxy mother. The others are impressively old and still in their jobs. A bit of an odd set-up, because Petyr could afford to invest a bit of money in the home he's fond of. 'Drearfort' is a spin on 'Dreadfort', which seems a bit dramatic. All feels very symbolic, but of what I do not know.

On 6/27/2021 at 3:02 AM, Seams said:

Horas and Hobber Redwyne

These have sound-alike names already in place as Horror and Slobber. If it turns out that wine does represent blood, then these boys may be shadows of some really horrific monsters. Otherwise, they seem ordinary, though it's true they bullied Sam, cold-shouldered Sansa and testified against Tyrion.

On 6/27/2021 at 3:02 AM, Seams said:

Melara Hetherspoon

Cersei's shadow and sidekick. Most significant thing about her is she died, perhaps at Cersei's hands. Didn't seem to change Cersei at all (apart from being cursed with premature death that is).

There's another list to be made of handmaids and sidekicks perhaps, feels interesting. I read somewhere (Heresy?) that as a rule a character's sword resembles them; and it's already clear that a character's horse resembles them also, far more than chance. So why not handmaids? Dany's do.
 

 

[Seams]

22 hours ago, Springwatch said:

There's another list to be made of handmaids and sidekicks perhaps

"Hand" maids have meaning because they are part of the hand symbolism with Hand of the King, Glover and Gardner sigils, Garth Greenhands, etc. 

I bet there is a lot of detail within the category of sidekicks that would show us they can't be grouped together in a single category. The Brienne / Pod match-up is so like the Dunk / Egg pairing and yet we have no reason to think that Pod has any hidden dragon blood. We know that Brienne and Ser Duncan are related, so there must be another reason - some seemingly obscure detail - GRRM has created the parallel between the two sidekicks. To me, this removes them from the idea of being one-dimensional. 

I suspect that pairs of people working together represent either good balance (bringing together opposites to create a complimentary whole) or imbalance and mismatch: Cersei and Robert are not a good pair, for instance. But Ned and Theon are paired, oddly, because Theon is identified as Ned's ward. Littlefinger was a ward of Hoster Tully. Myrcella and Trystane Martell hit it off immediately over their shared love of cyvasse.

There may also be some meaning in mirror images: Cersei and Jaime are two halves of the same whole, we are told. I'm also thinking about the Frey castle called The Twins. 

Pairs of people working in opposition also have meaning: I think the combat between Ser Vardis Egan and Bronn is a battle between green and brown, representing the cycle of seasons that always includes growth of greenery, falling leaves, fertilized soil and a renewed cycle of growth and death. Because the seasons are out of balance on this planet, this combat is a very important symbolic moment. 

Rorge and Biter were mentioned on the previous page. My current line of thinking about them is that Rorge symbolizes a smith (Rorge rhymes with forge) and that Biter symbolizes a sword (Biter / Bitter wordplay, with Bittersteel as the leader of this line of wordplay). Rorge says he found and trained Biter to be a fighter in the fighting pits. In GRRM's message about the horrors of war, Arya opens a Pandora's Box by letting Jaqen, Rorge and Biter out of their cage. Later, she unknowingly empowers Vargo Hoat by releasing the northern bannermen who are in collusion with the Bloody Mummers to take over Harrenhal. It falls to Brienne to put an end to these horrors as she encounters Shagwell, Timeon and Pyg; and later Rorge and Biter. Although I haven't pinned down the details, I suspect each of these figures symbolizes something larger. By killing Rorge and Biter, Brienne (with help from Gendry) may be dismantling the war machine - stopping both the forge and the sword (or personification of weaponry) that came from that forge. 

Lots of people in ASOIAF are symbolic weapons, of course. It Biter is somehow comparable to Bittersteel, he may represent much more than a weapon. He may represent the entrenched resentment and determination to prevail that was embodied by Bittersteel, keeping the Blackfyre rebellions going long after Damien Blackfyre had died. An even more insidious problem that keeps wars from being resolved. 

Speaking of the Blackfyre rebellions, I suspect that Rorge may be part of a line of wordplay around House Rogare and perhaps even Rhaegar. (Edit: also Ser Gregor, who was knighted by Rhaegar.) I've only listened to the audio of Fire and Blood, so I didn't absorb a lot of detail about House Rogare. It would be interesting to take a closer look at the qualities their bloodline brought to House Targaryen and House Martell. 

[Lord of Brewtown]

Mace Tyrell might be the best example of what you're looking for.  The stereotypical rich dope/buffoon born with a silver spoon in his mouth.  

Lady Barbrey Dustin - the bitter scorned lover; 

These may not be one-dimensional; but, definitely fall within types:  

Jojen Reed (and maybe all the Reeds) as the wise/intelligent and loyal but not physically gifted supporter(s) of the hero(s).  

Similar, but without the physical limitations might be Set Andrew Estermont - the loyal underling willing to sacrifice/put himself in danger to do the right thing.  

Jason Mallister & Mathis Rowan- the well respected/very capable, very good but not the best/most acclaimed fighter/strategist/lord/politician in the land.  The guys who represents all the lords/politicians/people you need to have on your side/win over to triumph.  

Ser Arys Oakheart - the naive lover/protector

Several could fit the social ladder climber type (Falyse Stokeworth, the Kettleblacks, the Merryweathers)

Definitely not one-dimensional, so probably not what you're looking for, though I think in some ways has attributes that fit several types:  Ser Daemon Sand

 

 

 

[TheLastWolf]

Ser Bonifer Hasty. He had to be, or Aerys would have caught him 

ETA

1.7 Dimensioned 

[Springwatch]

5 hours ago, The_Lone_Wolf said:

Ser Bonifer Hasty. He had to be, or Aerys would have caught him 

Wolf, sometimes I fear you have too much insight into grrm's sense of humour

[TheLastWolf]

4 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Wolf, sometimes I fear you have too much insight into grrm's sense of humour

I'm not sure if that's a compliment, but I'll take it that way... 

PS Nihilists think alike. Targeted at all those denying George is one. I'll only take Parris's word for it 

[Springwatch]

On 6/28/2021 at 8:26 AM, Impbread said:

Pate the pig boy at the citadel comes to mind. He really is quite dense and actually thinks he and his lady love have a future as he becomes a traveling barber. 

Good choice - very secondary character, but feels very significant. However, there are a lot of Pates, so like Alysanne I'll think on him some more later. But it stands out that many of them are the weak and the lowly who end up making very powerful moves: Pate the Novice cracks open the secrets of Citadel for the FM, Pate the legendary Pig Boy always ends up on top, Pate the Plowman (another legend) founds a noble house, Pate the stonemason becomes High Septon. Even Tommen's whipping boy Pate is a direct representation of the king. Impressive.

It seems to support the idea that all Pates are the same Pate - the powerful weak guy. More, stonemason Pate 'reappears' as the builder who carved the stone wolf pommel for Jon's sword Longclaw, which now becomes heftily symbolic on all sides.

(There's a bit of a clue that the Daenerys's are the same too - both have the exact same thought on seeing naked children/lovers, that there's no way of telling the poor from the rich and powerful.)

[Walda]

You have to look at smaller characters than those above to find a one-dimensional character.

If I had to, I would be thinking along the lines of Shitmouth, Black Brothers like Henly or Cugen (but definitely not like Alf of Runnymudd or Toad). There have to be some cannon fodder in these armies. I remember when I first started watching the other thing, before I read the books, I would familiarise myself with who was who by trying to name each character on the DVD menu. After I started reading the books, Iit startled me to realise I could put at least one name to every non-speaking role black brother escaping the Fist of the First men.

The books have far more characters. There are eight thousand unsullied and more freedmen. Yes, most of them are unnamed, but you can see they interact with each other and civilians in complex ways, on and off the page. They can't all enjoy the luxury of a second dimension, but a lot of the named ones have more. Marselen is Missandei's brother as well as an unsullied and the leader of the Mother's Men. Even amongst the Yunkai, most enemy leaders have more attributes than Kahl Fogo (Kahl Ogo's son). At the moment I suspect the "F" in Fogo is so GRRM could remember which one was the father. Both the father and the son are little more than bells on Drogo's braid.

There are one-dimensional girl-victims, whose deaths or rapes are consequential, but whose lives are nothing. Hazzea is just a name and a bag of bones. Eroah doesn't do much but sob her fear-fulled life away - she is useless as a handmaid. Layna seems to be a particularly gratuitous example - identified entirely by her father's profession, her age, the Mountain, and his men.

The main takeaway of Layna's life story appears to be that Ser Gregor shares his brother's opinion of the honour of knights, and that it was raining at Sherrer, so much so that one has to wonder what an expert at striking a flint he was, to raze Wendish Town. In Chiswyck's account of the meeting with Layna and her father, they had settled at the Inn while the rain held up rather than attempt to ford the flooded river - the Mountain and his men didn't notice the stone bridge right next to Joss's inn.

In Chiswyck's version of events they were not hundreds, or even fifty, but only eight:- Ser Gregor, whom Joss the innkeep recognised, and asked about his fortunes in the joust at the Tourney of King's Landing; Chiswyck himself; Raff; Eggon; Joss Stilwood, who had squired for Gregor when he killed Ser Hugh of the Vale; Tobbot; and two more - I'm guessing the Tickler, and Polliver, as they seem to hang out with Raff, and to be more favoured by Ser Gregor than the likes of Shitmouth and Dunsen. Dunsen seems to be a one dimensional character, except he has Gendry's bull helmet at the moment (hence he's on Arya's list, a second dimension).

Like so many minor characters (especially soldiers)  I'm guessing Dunsen will turn up again with another dimension. Unlike the "Sarsfield boy" that Arya killed -is he Joss Stilwood misidentified?  Or does Raff has a habit of harassing virgin boys to become rapists? Raff has three dimensions already, but I guess there is no limit.  The Sarsield boy is given a second dimension by the contents of his purse - he carries all his coin around in his wallet, like a young man who doesn't expect to be stolen from. He has a lot more money than Raff, too, but Raff and the Tickler haven't taken him along just to buy their drinks. As Sandor points out, they were going to rob the Innkeeper and maybe kill him before they left.

Tobbet and Eggon have only one dimension each, but they are not dead yet. Neither is Layna, so we can live in hope that she might gain a second dimension, when the truth about Gregor comes out. (The account that Vance/Piper/Darry gave of Wendish Town sounds to me a lot like the work of the Brave Companions).

And here are some of the dimensions I can think of for the characters listed in this thread when I started this post:

Syrio Forel: One has to wonder how the First Sword of Braavos came to be offering his services as a discreet fencing instructor in King's Landing. Of course he is a Braavosi spy. Apparently the failing Sealord of Braavos wanted to know all about what Eddard Stark, Hand of the King is doing, without Eddard knowing.
 

Spoiler

Winds of Winter

Spoiler

Syrio (or perhaps, the Sealord that read his dispatches) seems to have taken to writing Braavosi plays about his King's Landing experiences under the pen name "Phario Forel", the bloodiest quill of all of Braavos. Also, if the contents of The Bloody Hand are any indication, he remained in King's Landing until after Sansa left.

 

 

Salladhor Saan: Prince of the Narrow Seas, Lord of the Blackwater. Cersei fan. He knows the current whereabouts of Edric Storm, which is more than Davos does. He knows the rites and dogma of the Red God's people too, which makes him better able to protect Edric than Davos is.

Salla is greedy, but he might see Edric as a form of collateral for Stannis's debts to him. He might have some relationship to Pyntos, the Innkeep in Braavos who was the Pirate King of the Stepstones before him. I believe the Good Heart  was one of Saan's fleet. Although the taking on of slaves at Hardhome seems to have been an opportunistic thing, most probably done without Salla's knowledge, it has got him on the wrong side of the sick Sealord of Braavos.

Ser Gregor Clegane: In his youth he might have been Elia's lover. I suspect Ser Gregor has been framed for Elia and the babes, because I can't work out how he got from scaling the outer ward at the guards barracks, where he hoisted the Lannister Lion, to the nursery inside Maeger's Holdfast so promptly. But I can see how Varys, Rossart, Aerys, or even Tywin (anyone in the throne room at the time, or very near the King's entrance to it) could have got to the nursery in time to kill the babes. Or swap them and kill some other babes.

Ever loyal to Ser Tywin, Gregor has severe chronic headaches (caused, like Merrett's, by a massive blow to the head in his youth? Perhaps he came to to that film noir trifecta; amnesia, a dead lover dead and himself blamed for it?) The bad temper he had already. Also already, Gregor is baselessly assumed to be responsible for the deaths of his sister and father. (The natural burden of an oldest child, perhaps, but augmented by the substantiated fact he viciously maimed his younger brother.)

He is no angel - Sandor, Layna, Ser Hugh, and Arya's eye-witness accounts of him and his men at work show us that. But we also see him serve Lord Tywin with unflinching devotion even though Lord Tywin gives him the most dangerous and thankless missions, possibly in the hope that they will kill him.

Remember how Bronn told Tyrion that a small man with a big shield in the van would give the archers fits? Well, Clegane is the exact opposite of that, and he led the van. Then he got all the dirty unrewarding mop-up-guerilla missions, always in the dark, in the rain, at the fords, in enemy territory. Fighting Lord Beric, who wouldn't die. Getting his nose bloodied when Edmure decided to take the fight to him at Stone Mill.

Killing his horse will get his gander up, but most of the time he is sullen and morose, and heavily self-sedated. As if he discovered at seventeen, that when the sun has set, no candle can replace it, only duty, and he cares not if he lives or dies.

Gregor seems to have giant's blood in him, and might even be immortal. I can only hope that now, as Ser Robert, he isn't suffering from the migraines or the Viper's poison. His confession means nothing, I think. It was most likely a lie fed to him, uttered to infuriate the Red Viper in the hopes of catching him off-guard and killing him. Which he did. There is imagery associating him with stone and with Dorne. Or maybe with Peter Baelish's grandfather's fiery Titan mask, and the sword that was broken.

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Ser Gregor Clegane’s face might have been hewn from rock. The fire in the hearth gave a somber orange cast to his skin and put deep shadows in the hollows of his eyes.

(AGoT, Ch.69 Tyrion IX) Do you think the skull that Ser Balon brought to Dorne was his?

Vargo Hoat: As I have already mentioned re. Layna, I think Vargo Hoat and his Brave Companions had been working hard for Lord Tywin off-page some time before we caught a glimpse of them in the van on the Green Fork (part of the "swarming mass of undisciplined freeriders and sellswords", we learn some chapters later).

Hoat is a Qohorick, possibly the only character so far who is. Tobbo Motte was an apprentice or journeyman there, Dany lived there briefly, Brown Ben has a dead Qohorick great-grandparent, Strong Belwas was sold there, Merchant Captain Byam Votyris trades there, but only Vargo seems to be culturally from there. Because there is only him, it is dfficult to say how much his 'slobbery' speech is a result of personal speech impediments and how much is the sound of Qohorick Valyrian to the ears of Arya and Jaime, both who have learnt to speak High Valyrian.

Tywin called him Lord by courtesy, but Hoat seems to have really wanted to be a Westerosi Lord. According to Roose Bolton, Hoat turned  his cloak when Roose promised him Harrenhal. Hoat himself announces that he will deliver Jaime to Lord Karstark, and marry Lady Alys. Roose claims he wants to be Lord of the Karhold, but I am guessing Roose had kept back the information that Lord Karstark had been beheaded for the deaths of Martyn and Tion, and only told Hoat the bit about Jaime escaping Riverrun. Roose claims Hoat did not know that Harrenhal was cursed, or that Lord Tywin was not a man to be messed with, but Hoat had been working for Lord Tywin with Lord Tywin's bannermen for some time before he met Roose, and had likewise been housed in Harrenhal himself under Tywin's rule and Lorch's. 

I think, more likely, Roose had emphasised Lord Tywin's determination to get his son back, and how dangerous a swordsman Jaime was. Hoat had witnessed the first for himself, and anyone could have told him as much about the second, and probably had. Jaime picked Hoat for a greedy man, and that he posted guards to protect Brienne to collect her father's sapphires, shows he was right about that.

Hoat didn't know that Roose and Lord Tywin had already arrived at a rapprochment, courtesy of their mutual relatives, the Freys. This we know because Roose was going to give Harrenhal to Hoat when he went North. Robb had not instructed Roose to go North. As Ch.20 Catelyn III shows, Robb had felt strongly that Roose needed to be warned about Rickard Karstark's cavalry scatterming into the Riverlands, seeking the head of Jaime Lannister. Robb had intended his foot to take the High Road and attack Moat Cailin from the East, if Lady Lysa would open the Bloody Gate and lend his foot ships at Gulltown. Catelyn and Brynden wised him up about Lysa, Robb attempted to write his warning letter, then burnt it, and spent the rest of the day staring at a map trying to find a way to get to Winterfell without going north.  He found his way only when Jason Mallister brought him the Captain of the Myrham and news of the King's Moot. By then, Roose Bolton had left Harrenhal for the Red Wedding. Robb had opposed Bolton's march on Harrenhal, too. He didn't have the men, and it was what Lord Tywin wanted him to do. He had never approved the Riverlords returning to their own lands - he knew that would make it too easy for Lord Tywin's men to move along the river, picking them off one by one. So odd that Ser Gregor killed Darry, who could be ransomed for a fine sum. As Catelyn pointed out, Ser Gregor is no more than a catspaw - and there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Karstark's choice of Martyn Lannister as vengence for his  younger sons' deaths is an odd one, as Tyrion had counter-offered him Harrion's freedom (and Wylis Manderley's) in exchange. King Robb's peace terms had offered Willem and Tion in exchange for Sansa and Arya, keeping Jaime  hostage as a surety for Lord Tywin releasing Harrion along with the knights and Lords taken on the Greenfork.

Or perhaps not- as Harrion is neither a lord nor a knight. In any case, it seems that Lord Karstark really wanted to ensure the Lannisters and the Freys both remained hostile to Robb, and vengence had little to do with it. I suspect Bolton had got to him, somehow.

Brynden Blackfish has an interesting take on Hoat: "some sellsword out of Qohor who’d sooner maim a man than kill him." Of the men crawling the Riverlands in search of Jaime,  Hoat is one of the very few that would rather take him alive. Among Jaime's enemies there is only King Robb, and Roose Bolton who mention the value of taking him alive. I suspect Roose only cares that Lord Tywin doesn't think he was accountable for Jaime's death. Roose planned the Red Wedding and killed Robb with his own hand, but the Freys are held to account for it rather than him. His son razes Winterfell, and Theon accounts for it. Would it be that extraordinary if Roose Bolton saw some value or amusement in Tywin Lannister's golden son killed, if it did not cost him his friendship with Lord Tywin?  Or for that matter organising the killing Kevan's son and Cleos's brother, with Lord Karstark to account for it? Hoat is Roose's man now, so it is important that if he captures Jaime, he brings him back alive, for Bolton to barter for his son's legitimacy and fArya. If Hoat had killed Jaime, Roose would have had Hoat killed and the pidgen who killed him sent to Tywin with the bones of both and all the eyewitnesses. Alive, Jaime wins him Warden of the North, Ramsey's legitimacy, and fArya.

Another interesting predilection of Hoat's is feeding people to bears. Thanks to Hoat we get the battle of the Bear and the Beauty. Thanks to Hoat, Amory Lorch is killed by a bear. Just as the Lannisters reach an agreement with Doran Martell of Dorne. Very convenient for Lord Tywin. Lord Bolton could have denied Vargo the pleasure, but then it would look like he had something to do with it, when it was simply the end of a grudge that Lord Tywin made sure everyone knew about.

I wonder if Lord Tywin had done anything to encourage Hoat to feed Ser Amory to his bear. Hard to tell, as  throwing captives to the bear comes second only to chopping off limbs with Hoat.  Just seems terribly convenient that Ser Amory is eaten by a bear just as the Lannisters make a pact with Doran. And Daven mentioned he had offered to forage around Harrenhal for Tywin at that time, but Tywin told him "foraging is best left to goats and dogs". I am sure Roose ensured the bear was part of the plunder Hoat took to Harrenhal. And Glover's plan to take the castle disguised as prisoners included the agreement that Hoat would become castellen. 

Lord Vargo seemed to be using Roose Bolton as a go-between to Lord Karstark, before Karstark lost his head, when Lord Vargo had apparently betrayed the Lannister cause and gone over to Lord Bolton and the North. Perhaps the promise of Alys (who at the time seemed to be a zero-dimensional character) had always been a Bolton lie, a way of reassuring Hoat that he would get his Lordship even if he had harmed Lord Tywin's son. More interestingly, perhaps Bolton was playing Karstark as well as Hoat, and the deaths of Martyn and Tion were really engineered by Bolton, as the Red Wedding was (at least, at the Red Wedding, Roose killed Robb with his own hand). seeking a Lordship through to  him three hundred Lannister-loyal horse to join his riders in their rapine and razing of the Riverlands.

Biter: Like Gregor and Hodor, he is unusually large physically but suspect intellectually. Filed teeth are a cultural characteristic of the cave-dwelling wildlings north of the Wall, and also of the slaves of the fighting pits of Meereen. Biter is fat and bald, has weeping sores on his hairless cheeks that run with blood when he exerts himself, and eyes that look like nothing human. He has no tongue, and seems to have an intellectual disability as well as skin condition and perhaps a disease that makes him smell bad. Could he be part-giant? Or part-Sotheryl? Was he always a mute, or has his tongue been torn out?

He prefers to kill armed opponents barehanded, although he was also effective with kettles of hot soup. He has a high pain threshold, especially for burns. It seems that being a Brave Companion when the company really hit the skids was Biter living his best life.

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Question (from yours truly) what the hell is with Biter? Is he just a bad guy or is he something more....

    George treated us to a never before heard back story of Rorge and Biter.....Rorge ran a dog and bear fighting place in Flea Bottom. Biter was an orphan whom Rorge grabbed up and raised ferally to fight in the pits.

 

(SSM Canadian Signing Tour, CBC Book Signing Event, Vancover 4-6pm January 13th 2006 Submitted by Whoresbane)   

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Biter's Untold Backstory!

    At the first event, the CBC radio interview, a girl asked him about Biter. She said most of his characters are somewhat grey, not totally evil.. but that there was something about Biter, and she had suspicions about him. Martin seemed to love the question, and laughed about it, and then he told us the as-yet-unwritten backstory to Biter! Here it is, if you want to know, but I guess it's SPOILERS!: Rorge owned a pot shop or bar in Flea Bottom, the really bad part of King's Landing. Rorge would stage rat fights, and dog fights, bear cub fights, etc., and make money of these fights. At some point he found young Biter, a big ugly kid with no parents or something like that, and took him in. Rorge starting putting Biter into the fights, fighting mastiffs and bear cubs, etc. And then he said something like "And all of this led to his winning personality! So there you go, that's the backstory for Biter that I haven't written yet, but I might!"

 

(SSM Canadian Signing Tour, Chapters Bookshop Vancouver 7pm 13th January 2006 submitted by EvilAgent)

Don't know about you, but the thought of an orphan child, caged alongside the cubs and mastiffs he was dragged out at night to kill or be killed by, kept so hungry he would resort to eating whatever he could kill ... Biter is a pitiable creature, and remarkably good humoured, considering his upbringing.

Rorge: Not your typical cage-fighting impresario. If you went into a potshop in Fleabottom, and Rorge was the owner, would you order a bowl o' brown? If you had charge of an orphan child, would you trust him to Rorge's care? His nose was cut off - who by? Jaqen? Was his penis cut off then as well, or was that just a lie Brienne made on the spot (wouldn't have picked her for such a clever liar).

I am guessing it was a food violation that brought Rorge to the black cells- human remains in the pot, orders from someone the Goldcloaks couldn't ignore, forcing them to shut the place down in spite of the backhanders they might have been getting and the danger those who arrested him faced. I am thinking Bronn knew about Rorge's place, and Petyr Baelish too. Gambling can be really profitable when you are the bookie, and I'm guessing people bet on the fights. I find it hard to believe Rorge had the skill-set to run a retail business or foster a child, but he seems to have kept both alive for a decade or so (judging by Biter being fully grown when Arya meets them).

Did Jaqen meet them before they arrived at the black cells? If he was with them, I suspect he brought the heat down on them. But what brought the Faceless Man to Rorge's pot shop? Was he delivering bear cubs, looking for fighters, singers, or just for lunch? How the hell were these guys offered the option of taking the Black? I suppose, as Jon pointed out, the Wall takes all sorts. Yoren clearly had his reservations about taking them - but didn't live long enough to express them.

But back to Rorge. He talks about eyes a bit like Gregor Clegane does

Quote

two eyes, that’s too many. One scream out o’ you, and I’ll pop one out and make you eat it, and then I’ll pull your fucking teeth out one by one.”

Ah, sounds like a father-figure.

Rorge has a thing about sticks, he likes kicking too, but he wears a sword and knows how to use it. He is of course a sadist. He masks himself in the Hound's helmet when he razed the Saltpans after he slew a dozen or a score of men including an aged septon, cut out the tongue of a silent brother, raped a septa and/or a twelve year old child. Sometimes masks allow people to reveal things about themselves - I suspect Rorge had some issues with the Faith of the Seven before they had issues with him.

It wasn't the best way of finding a ship that would take them from Westeros, which was what others surmise his plan was. Rorge has a short temper and a face that is easy to recognise, so he might have lost it when he found there were no ships in the Saltpans and the place was crawling with Beric's men and Tarly had secured all the other ports.

Or maybe he didn't want to leave Westeros, didn't have a plan, was just going to plunder and raze until he died. When they showed up at the Orphan Inn, one of the men he was riding with tried to negotiate fresh horses and food, but Rorge was in charge so it was all fight, rape and raze to the end.

Ser Clayton Suggs: another cruel sadist, who threatens to rape and just wants to see things burn. Apart from the nose, the thing that distinguishes this hedge knight from Rorge is that he doesn't have friends to enjoy a laugh with. (But he does have a nose).

I can't give him credit for being braver than Rorge, who also flings himself into the fray when that is required. But loyalty is a point of difference. Rorge deserts Yoren then turns his Manticore cloak and joins the Brave Companions, then deserts Hoat and masks himself in the Hound's helm.  I would say that makes him more layered than Suggs, but we have known Rorge since A Clash of Kings, and Suggs has only appeared on the page as Stannis approached Winterfell in a Dance with Dragons. He hasn't had as much time to develop an arc. With his idiomatic sigil, it is clear he is going to.

His staunch loyalty comes from a deeper character attribute: choice. Rorge didn't have a lot of choice when it came to vows and such - he might have expressed a preference for the Wall over the King's Justice, or he might simply have been cleared out of the dungeons with the rest. Joining Lorch's men and the Weasel Soup was more probably Jacqen's idea, based more on Jacqen's need to preserve the two lives he won from the Red God after Weese and Chiswyck had taken their place, rather than any forward planning on the part of Rorge and Biter. But Suggs's career is not accidental. He has been knighted, by someone, somehow. He became a King's man for Stannis, and a Queen's man for R'hollr. These are conscious decisions motivated by ambition, not duress. Ambition adds another dimension to Suggs's character.

---

Ok, I know that Seams has not offered any one-dimensional characters, but rather, minor characters with huge symbolic significance.  I had written this part of the post before Seams had put the links in her post.

 Ser Vardis Egan: Wields the sword that Tobho Mott claims Lord Arryn didn't order (well, it was a gift from Lysa). That fearsome helm and fancy armour might have been Tobho's work, too. Was defeated as much by the statue of Alyssa/the weeping(or dancing) woman/goddess as by Bronn.

Ser Vardis has a son and heir, whom Lysa banished from the Eyrie because he was 'too rough' for SweetRobin. Ser Mandon Moore knew Vardis, might have loved him. They share a complete lack of humour and guarded the Hand together in King's Landing for fifteen years.

Vardis is someone Eddard Stark would love to have questioned, close confidant of Jon Arryn for years, and in the days and weeks leading up to his death, but Catelyn and Ser Rodrik had no questions for him.

Guyard Morrigen: I believe, if Renly was killed by a person rather than a shadow, it would be a person outside the green silk tent, wearing green, rendering them effectively invisible, or a shadow, depending on the angle of the light. This person would need to have a Valyrian sword (although Renly's gorget, coloured green by some sulphurous compound and tempered and beaten back into shape and polished after every tourney, could possibly be about as strong as cheesecloth, so castle steel might have been sharp enough.)

The most likely assassin of King Renly is an interesting dimension for Guyard to have, beyond being one of the Rainbow Guard. He sings and plays the harp, and he was passed over for leading Renly's van for Loras Tyrell.

Guyard went over to Stannis after Renly died, but he is no fan of Lady Melisandre, claiming she shouldn't carry a banner. He wanted to be the one to settle Storm's End by single combat. Still hankering after leading the van, his wish was granted on the Battle of Blackwater Rush, where he was promptly cut down by Renly's ghost. Which would be karma if he was Renly's assassin. Or maybe Renly's assassin just borrowed his armour.

Parmen Crane: Was on guard outside Renly's tent when he died. Loras killed Emmon Cuy (Yellow one) and Robar Royce (Red one) but didn't kill Parmen (Purple one). Perhaps because the Cranes are Tyrell bannermen. Or maybe because Parmen didn't rush in and try to kill Brienne, and therefore couldn't be mistaken for someone trying to kill Renly.

Parmen went over to Stannis so fast he had possibly left before Cuy and Royce attacked Brienne. Probably because he is a cousin or uncle of Queen Selyse. He and Erren Florent are currently in gaol in Highgarden, as the Tyrell forces captured them at Bitterbridge, when they returned on a mission to take over Renly's host and bring it to Stannis. Erren seems to have only one dimension - Selyse's brother, captive in Highgarden with Ser Parmen. His name in the story is misspelt 'Errol', as if he was confused with Lord Errol, Renly's bannerman that turned to Stannis.

I'd say Lord Errol was a one-dimensional character too, except the appendices of Clash record the head of Haystack Hall as Lady Shyra and Dance has it as Lord Sebastion, and the World of Ice and Fire has it that Shyra died and Sebastion inherited. And that the Errols of the Stormland go back to the days of Orys Baratheon which indicates GRRM has given them more thought after he finished Clash.

The Lord Errol Ser Courtney Penrose knew was Renly's man before he swore to Stannis, and apparently converted from the Seven to the Red God in the time it took to march from Bitterbridge to Storm's End. More remarkably, Ser Courtney knows this (even if he is tarring Lord Errol with the same brush as Alester Florence, it is still remarkable that Courtney knows about Alester's very recent conversion). In Erren and Errol's case it is hard to tell at the moment how much is a slip of the pen, and how much yet to be revealed/retrofitted. But I am sure that Parmen has been tucked away at Highgarden to be forgotten about for a solid reason.

Alysanne Bulwer: the Lady of Blackcrown and the head of House Bulwar since her father died of a summer fever. Her mother is a Tyrell. She might be related to Black Jack Bulwar the ranger at the wall. (Several of Margery's hens seem to be widowed or orphaned). Her maester, Normand, is a cousin of Mace, another example of the twining roses at work. She might have a brother who has been singled out as a suitable husband for Megga, or that might just be a lie that Tanea told Cersei. Bit of a mystery how she can have an eligible brother and still be the Lady of Blackcrown. Perhaps he is a step-brother, from her mother's first marriage? She loves animals and she reminds Sansa of Arya.

Alyce Graceford: is the head of Holyhall, and the ancient House Graceford of the Reach. The question is, who is the father of her unborn child? Is he alive or dead? How does she retain the apparently undivided headship of Holyhall, and her maiden name, if she has a living husband? Was he a cousin? Or was she a Tyrell before she married him? Did she get Cersei's permission to name a bastard child Tywin, if it was a boy? And why are so many of Margaery's ladies the heads of ancient houses with very few men in them?

Grenn: was slow and clumsy, thick of neck and red of face, but he shaped up and became a ranger, competent enough to be an outrider in the great ranging, and a good archer. He lost his virginity at Moles Town and has a dragonglass dagger. He is a conveniently stupid Captain Obvious for GRRM and a straight guy for Dolorous Edd. He took command of the Wall and held it honourably against Mance's wildling army when Jon went down to find out what happened to Donal Noye at the gate. He seems well liked, including by people like Rast and Albett who do not like Jon. He admires Dwyer's bushcraft. He has grown six inches in the last two years. Jon sent him to Eastwatch...yeah, I see what you mean, he is pretty one-dimensional. But he does have a story arc, going from a thick boy to a professional soldier, loyal to the bone.

He is also now at Eastwatch, where Glendon Hewett rules (cronie of Alliser Thorne, served in the Goldcloaks under Jonas Slynt), and has possibly has taken Slynt's role of Cersei's hidden anti-Stark dagger. So Grenn might become a pro-Stark hidden maul. Or not. Difficult to imagine him taking on a political or diplomatic role, or plotting an intrigue.

Leathers: Fights with a stone axe. Not an iron axe, like the wildlings we saw in the prologue of Game of Thrones. Which makes me think a dragonglass axe head is in his future. He can negotiate with Wun Wun when the bg boy is angry, which is a skill the Night's Watch could use right now. Also, there are a whole lot more giants outside of Eastwatch. He has sons and grandsons, 'the death of duty' according to the Night's Watch rubric, so he might have kin on both sides of the wall in the coming troubles, if GRRM finds that useful. He might plot or conspire with Tormund's son Torreg. Horse from Moletown doesn't trust him. Nor the Flint and the Norrey, nor Clydas, Septon Celador, et al. So he probably won't be Master of Arms at Castle Black very long if Bowen Marsh takes over.

Umfred: "Drearfort" servant. A white-haired ancient, but strong. Petyr Baelish's steward. While my mind boggles when I think of what that job could involve, I suspect he only manages the Drearfort, it's sheep and the tithes of it's smallfolk. From all I can see, it is a well-run outfit, and  GRRM hasn't explicitly noted a second dimension for him, and if one exists it has escaped me so far.

Collectively, the servants at the Drearfort show us an unexpected side to Petyr Baelish - every one of these servants have been here since his father's time, and it appears the place remains as it always has been. Petyr might dress himself in splendor and search the world for innovations like repeating crossbows and Myrish glasses for others, but he keeps his family home exactly as it always was, and neither hires nor fires the household staff.

Grisel, "Drearfort" servant, Formerly Petyr Baelish's wetnurse, currently his very competent housekeeper. Two dimensions right there.

Bryen, "Drearfort" servant. A white-haired hale octogenarian. Commander of the Guards (a brindled mastif, six sheep dogs. Possibly Lothar Brune.  Definitely also the old blind dog who provided honourable service to the Lady Sansa by alerting Lothar when she needed him.) Bryen has a second dimension in the form of a sword, possibly his sword of office, which he wears when he comes to take Sansa off the boat. It won't impress the dogs, it distinguishes him from Umfred.

Kella."Drearfort" servant. Shepherdess. Lady's maid for Sansa. Mother of bastards.

Horas Redwyne: Unhorsed by Jory at the Tourney of the Hand, defeated the knight of the silver griffins at the Tourney of Joffrey's thirteenth name day.

Hobber Redwyne: Unhorsed by Ser Meren Trant on the Tourney of Joffrey's thirteenth name day, and injured, after an impressive tilt. As alike to his brother as a pea in a pod. Attempted to escape King's Landing after Renly was crowned on the Pentoshi Moonrunner

Melara Hetherspoon: With a father like Tywin, all Cersei's childhood friends had to earn their place. No playing with the butchers boy for her. She is determined. It seems that it was her idea to get their fortunes told, and she was prepared to face monsters like Maggi and Cersei to find out if she would marry Jaime. Which seems like an ambition her landed-knight father might have shared.

The sister of the captain of the guard at Duskendale who repaints Brienne's shield: Unfair. She is not a named character, and you have given two dimensions describing her anyway. I think the painting on the door might be inspired by King Robert's death. Not saying that the Faith and the Florents are in league with BlackRaven, but he does come to people in their dreams.

Pate: How did Pate get his place at the Citidel? I mean, they say they take anyone, but most of the people we know at the Citidel come from highborn families, albiet as natural or second sons, cripples or delinquents. Was Pate's father a maester? The seventh son of some minor lord? Having his body occupied by someone else gives him an interesting second dimension, but had he lived, I think his knowledge of ravens and the contents of Maester Walgrave's chest gave him a second dimension.

We can tell from the other types of life that Pate considered starting upon, and the fact he did not start on them, that he wasn't really a thief, and the Citidel was the only option he really wanted (that, and Rosy). The 'alchemist' that took his life looks a bit like Osney Kettleblack, as well as a bit like the man that Jaqen H'ghar transformed into.

Crona: err, you mean Chella, daughter of Cheyk, of the Black Ears, @The_Lone_Wolf? She is a female clan chief, which shows us that the clans of the the Mountains of the Moon will accept female leaders, and joins other hints that suggest some clans might have matriarchal power structures . Her clan has alliances with the Moon Brothers, and not the Stone Crows or the Burnt Men.  Chella led the charge when Tywin's van met the Northern army on the Green Fork. Shagga followed in her dust, leaving the Burnt Men behind with Tyrion. Chella personally seems very social and inclined to enjoy a throaty chuckle with most people she meets.

When she turned up to the gates of King's Landing after Tywin took over, the red cloaks chased her away and threw dung at the Black Ears. Presumably she has returned to the Mountains of the Moon, but you have to wonder, is she is still a Lannister ally? If Tyrion returns to Westeros, would she be a friend or a foe? Would she take Tyrion's ear? How many bits can Tyrion lose? How many promises can he make before he pays up? The 46 men whose ears hang round her neck are still alive, or at least, she didn't kill them. So a brave warrior, but not a very effective assassin or soldier, with at least 46 enemies, that might include Mord. But she can guard and she can scout, and she can math (well, accurately estimate a force that is 20,000 strong.)

Sansa: @Widowmaker 811 concedes Sansa is not one-dimensional, just selfish. So I'll move on.

Edric Dayne: The current Lord of Starfell. Shared a wet-nurse with Jon Stark. Noticed that Loras Tyrell gave Sansa a rose and who knows what else about the Tourney of the Hand. Apparently thinks he was named after Eddard Stark. There was an Edric Stark that was Lord of Winterfell in the reign of Jahareys I, and another that was a younger son of Cregan Stark, around the time of Aegon IV and the Blackfyre rebellions, so maybe he was named after a Stark. Interesting they call him 'Ned', given what his family have told him of Aunt Ashara and Uncle Arthur and Ned Stark. He seems to have no hard feelings, but he is so polite, and so young.

Edric has purple eyes and ash blonde hair, so he is interesting for Targaryen lineage and spotting Dragon-rider reasons. And he is the squire of a several-times dead man, intended for another of his aunts. If all that had not placed him awkwardly enough, it is unclear what has happened to him since Beric passed away. Has he become a ward of Lady Stoneheart? Is he still with the Brotherhood Without Banners? Presumably his family has some interest in who he is squiring for - he's a Lord, not an orphan. Perhaps his family think he is safer in the Riverlands than at his home, while Darkstar is there.

Is Edric knighted? It would be hard on him if he had not been knighted by Beric, after all, Beric has knighted practically everyone else. It'd be a shame if Beric died before Ned was dubbed, leaving him to be knighted by the likes of Lem, or not knighted at all.  But then, has he really done anything that deserved spurs? Perhaps it will be enough to survive Darkstar and the next four years and just be Lord Dayne.

Podrick Payne: Ilyn Payne's only known relative. Honestly, he is one of those characters you can see, right from when he catches and cooks that trout with quiet competence, but especially from when he informs Tyrion that Lord Baelish awaits with tortured incompetence, that Pod is on a coming-of-age arc and has not only a back-story, but a future (as much as anyone in the Song can be said to have a future.)

No hastily cobbled together training montages here, he is in battles and studies the sigils of Dorne as the natural pace of the plot allows. He quietly observes Tyrion's plans and ploys as Hand, and he has an intimate knowledge of people like Shae and Bronn and Sansa, that Tyrion never could have.

He started the cheer of Halfman! Halfman! on the battlefield, and rescued Tyrion from the ministrations of Mandon Moore and Ballabar. His loyalty to Tyrion unabated, he manages to get some training in arms from Brienne. Meribald teaches him to talk, and learns he had a dog called Hero that died. But Pod still lives, and I doubt he will disappear like Syrio or Parmen.

Jeyne Poole: Mean girl. She was the one that gave Horas and Hobber and Arya those mocking nick-names, not Sansa (who I don't think ever utters them). She tells tales. It was Jeyne that told Sansa Beric Dondarrion would spike the Mountain's head over his own gate. It was Jeyne that told Arya that Mycah's father had at first mistaken his sons remains for a pig he had slaughtered, when they were returned to him in a butchers bag, and before they sat down to ribs for dinner.

She wasn't so thrilled to watch Ser Hugh's death, though. Her tendency to fall in love with the likes of Robb Stark and Beric Dondarrion might reflect a desire to marry above her station (just the friend for Sansa, obsessed with marrying the Crown Prince). But that desire is not backed up with any attempt to become better mannered or better educated (The only explanation I can find for her close relationship with Sansa is that Winterfell had no other girls her age, and Vayon Poole had ambitions for his daughter to become Sansa's Ladys-maid.) She isn't interested in politics like Sansa, and she isn't especially bright, but fear gives her an intuition of danger that Sansa lacks. She was sobbing for her dead father (chopped up by Cersei's butcher) while fearless Sansa was still pinning her hopes on Cersei.

As fArya, she is a toy for Ramsey, an exercise for his sadism. But that adds a dimension to Theon's character, so why should it not add a dimension to Jeyne Poole, who has been a sex slave of Petyr Baelish, too?

She is better behaved and less sure of herself as fArya, and her intuitive fear is sharper, too. She knows Ramsey hates her for not being rArya and she trusts Theon. At the moment she is only bait for Ramsey's fWroth (I don't think it is rWroth because really, his favourite thing to do with girls is hunt them, and he already has two dogs called Jeyne).

Jeyne Westerling: The pretty little nothing that King Robb lost the North for. Napoleon's last words were "France, the army, Josephine", Robb's were "Jeyne, Mother, Grey Wolf". Although, he had less time to think about them, and might have been attempting to tell his mother Grey Wolf disliked the way Jeyne smelled after drinking a posset full of wolfsbane.

Jeyne being not much is kind of the point of her. It makes us wonder what is in the water at the Craig when Robb starts wittering about how "The Crag is not strong. For love of me, Jeyne may lose all.” (although I personally think it was amortina in the candles rather than something in the water.)

Small as her part of the story is, we soon get to see that, politics aside, her brightness, beauty, kindness, and gentle heart don't make her a compatible match for Robb. She wonders why he is so angry and disconsolate at her after killing Rickard Karstark, and suggests to Catelyn that Robb should get a headsman rather than spoil his appetite for the evening meal she ordered for him. Catelyn diplomatically gives her a weak hint: when Jeyne tells her she is praying to the Mother above for an heir, Catelyn replies that she will pray to "the Old Gods and the New".

After the fact we learn that Jeyne's heart was true, she mourns Robb sincerely and won't surrender his crown. But she is going to be married to a Lord or heir attracted by a large pot of Lannister gold. (Lucky for her the Lord of Harrenhal was et before he surrendered.)

There is also the possibility that Robb's Will could have made her Regent of Winterfell, and her first child, the Lord or Lady of Winterfell.

Wylis Manderley:

 

Wynafryd Manderley

 

Wylla Manderley

 

Garlan the Gallant: Wore Renly's armour in the Battle of Blackwater Rush, making him part of the 'hollow knights' theme. More importantly, he got the barges from Highgarden to Tumblestone Falls, and from there to the mouth of the Blackwater. The plan might have been Mace's or Tywin's, but the execution of it was Garlan. (Obviously, Loras had the job of getting the great army of foot to the barges and onto them - a critical but much less stupendous feat).

Oberyn once said "Tell me who he has slain in battle, if you mean to frighten me".  Garlan has slain a number of men and put Stannis's force to rout for Lord Tywin, but Renly gets the credit. He has managed a Dunkirk-scale military operation, one that made the victory decisive, but Tywin gets the applause. And Garlan noticed and appreciated Tyrion's chain, and his wildlings, and even gave him full credit for the wildfire (that Cersei also had a hand in). All while Tyrion was bitterly interupting the song that was being sung to the honour of Renly's Ghost. The new Lord of Brightwater Keep is a graceful, courteous, and surprisingly humble man.

If there is any doubt of Garlan's gallantry, take note of the way he treated Sansa at her wedding. (ASoS, Ch.28 Sansa III). At Sansa's wedding and Joffrey's, Ser Garlan was attended by his wife, and spoke to her and of her in a way that indicates they are a happy couple, who act as a team, communicate well, and have affection for each other. Leonette might be a cousin of the Tyrells (if she is Janna's daughter.) and there were Fossoways on Stannis's side, that were killed by Lothar Brune.

As Lord of Brightwater Keep, he is situated at the headwaters of the Honeywine, between Oldtown and Highgarden which makes him strategically important. Also makes him someone Selyse objects to .

Mace Tyrell: Thanks to the likes of Tyrion and Stannis,  Mace Tyrell is deprecated as a commander, and Randyll Tarly perhaps given more credit than he deserves. Lord Tywin had very little to do but mop up what the Tyrells, led by Mace, had decided in the Battle on the Blackwater, but Stannis has no problem identifying Lord Tywin as the commander responsible for his defeat. At least he doesn't credit the Blackwater victory to the success of the flank of the van that Tarly commanded.

Mace managed to keep his army, his lands, and his wealth in Robert's Rebellion. He left the war with an impeccable record for faithful service to the Iron Throne, whomever sat it. Or almost whomever. Stannis can grind his teeth at the bloodless and honourable end to the siege at Storm's End, but Mace will never bow to him as the realm's lawful King.

Olenna might object, but Mace was quick to take the chance to make his daughter the Queen of Westeros, confident in his ability to then rule from the seat of the Hand in time, and to be an important adjutant to the Hand before then. I believe Petyr Baelish was the one who thought to bring Loras and Renly together, but I suspect it was Mace who had a miniature of his lovely daughter painted, and fully expected to have her wed to Robert when Loras left to attend the Tourney of the Hand.

He acted against his mother's counsel in this respect, but he managed to get Margaery married to one king after another, and came out of the War of the Five Kings with his daughter alive and wed to the winner, and his armies, lands, and wealth largely intact. Tyrion doesn't much care to be told to  "leave fighting to the fighters" in ASoS, Ch.19 Tyrion III, but Tyrion is a thin-skinned little imp, and in this instance inflamed by a personal grudge against Lysa. When he cools down, he would be forced to admit the truth of Mace's advice - his Mountain Clan alliance might have given his father's army safe passage through the Mountains of the Moon, but only to shatter themselves at the Bloody Gate of the impregnable Eyrie. And even if Tyrion found a way for them to win, for what? They want the men of the Vale to fight with them, and the lands of the Vale to supply them. Overrunning the vale with Mountain clans, killing their warriors and razing their crops, for what? Tyrion's revenge?

Mace's other input on this occasion, that Robb must turn North and pit his army against Moat Calin, is true. Although Robb is not such a fool as to commit all his forces to a full frontal attack, he decides to appear to, knowing that his enemies see he has no other choice. Mace's dismissive remarks on Lysa not entering the war are backed by all available evidence, but like his support for giving Balon the North (on the basis of that who else would want it?) his dismissive hand-waving should be viewed through the prisim of his secret plot to wed Sansa to Willas Tyrell, and the side-eye between Mace and Rowen when Lord Tywin reveals that Petyr Baelish was going to wed Lysa.

Mace could come up with no stronger objection to Tywin's plan than, if Petyr Baelish left on the morrow he would miss the King's wedding. Which would only sound like a pointed and serious objection to people who believed he wanted Littlefinger at the wedding to account for his part of the arrangements.

His jovial "best you do not linger" might be a masked threat ( Petyr's "drowning would definitely diminish my charms as a bridegroom" seems to have some Ironman foreshadowing to me). Mace clearly intended to control the North through Sansa as well as the East through Lysa, and had very probably thought of Petyr as an ally (at least since Bitterbridge, if not the Tourney of the Hand or earlier) right up until that moment.

His mistake. But he was absolutely sensible when he spoke about getting a massive Navy together (of Paxter's ships and Balon's) and laying siege to Dragonstone, getting rid of the most serious threat to the Iron Throne as their first priority. Like most of Mace's strategic counsel, it is basic, but not wrong.

Mace seems to take Pycelle's remark that three hundred Dornishmen were joining them for the wedding as a reminder that Lord Tywin had an alliance with his old enemies, and those allies had an army bristling on the border of the Marches of the Reach. Superficially, one might think from his reaction that Mace would have a fit if he knew the Red Viper was taking Doran's place on the Small Council, but we learn from Oberyn himself that Willas had reached out to Oberyn at about the time Myrcella was sent to Dorne. Coincidence?

I suspect the thing that was really make him choke was the knowledge Petyr Baelish had unsprung his Winterfell plot as well as his Eyrie one, with Lord Tywin and Petyr Baelish collecting the biggest prizes of the war.  And Petyr skedaddled before Joffrey was poisoned, able to point his clean finger at Mace if he desired. Perhaps Mace and the Tyrells had nothing to do with Joffrey's poisoning. Petyr agreed to arrange that marriage in return for their military support, and he did. Mace can't blame Petyr if the bridegroom died before the marriage was consumated, Petyr is miles away. Mace kept his composure and forced a chuckle when he bid Petyr farewell, in spite of seeing two of the three marriage deals collapse right there in front of him.  As Tywin notes "The greatest fools are oftimes more clever than the men who laugh at them".

Mace had the Merryweathers in his pocket and Loras watching over Cersei. He may well have Harys Swyft in his pocket as well (where else would Cersei's Master of Coin find the money?) It's pretty obvious Harys sent Mace the news of his daughter's arrest, (just as Pycelle told Kevan) and that Mace and Tarly had both been ready to march their armies back to King's Landing from the day they left. And either some carpenter in his artillery was carving him a Hand Throne on the march back to King's Landing, or it was sitting in Highgarden since Renly was crowned. Like a long siege, Mace is patient and he gets there in the end.

As Hand, what he tells Kevan of Storm's End passing from one pretender to another, and of Connington being rash and the Golden Company having always failed to take Westeros, are historical facts, although I think in his current flush of success Mace has forgotten that 'past results do not predict future performance' (as some of the less racy literature I read is apt to say). He is at least not as idiotic as Randyll, although when the wisest remarks at the table are coming from Pycelle, you know the Iron Throne is in deep trouble.

Fat fool or not, Mace Tyrell has a lot more going on than the Lannisters suspect.

Barbrey Dustin: Rooses good-sister, Brandon's lover, a Ryswell by birth, Lady of Barrowtown. She hates Eddard Stark, though he and his never knew it, in the twenty years she has held that grudge. Roose knows and does not overlook or underestimate her. She insisted on having fArya under her protection before the wedding to Ramsay, and Theon. She furnishes Ramsey's bedroom. Roose might know or suspect she still resents Domeric's death. I'm not entirely convinced it was Ramsey, though. These Boltons are very good at making it look like someone else did their killing.  

Barbrey is a big one for dead bones, though. She wants Eddard's, she wanted her husband's, she wanted to see the crypts. And she lives on the bones of the First King of Westeros, or a King of the Giants. And the main street of Barrowtown is lined by Elms (the grave-marker, the witches tree, a symbol of ill omen). The three Freys Lord Manderley saw off his lands were heading for Barrowtown. And they were riding three fine new horses, gifts of Lord Manderley, but where did he get them? Both the Dustins and the Ryswells were known for the horses they bred.

So most GRRM characters have at least two dimensions. He has a formula, where every name comes with at least two characteristics (think randy Cletus with his lazy eye, fearless Willem with his freckles) and every one comes from a family or a village or somewhere even if they are no-one. Especially if they are no-one.

He is particularly careful to give his "redshirt" soldiers a story that is not the event that killed them. Perhaps not every named character has a back-story, but I bet GRRM has made sure that every named character who died in battle does, even the ones he will never put in the books.

There are so many minor characters, it is simply not possible to inform the reader of every one of their stories. Among that multitude, there must be some that exist only because the inn is full or the castle too large to be cleaned by only two pairs of female hands. Still, the closer you look, the closer you have to look to find characters with a single dimension.

Even then, it is hard to tell if a character really is one-dimensional or if we have only seen them once. He is really clever at slipping characters like Harys Swyft, Grazdan mo Ullhor, or Jallabar Xho in. At first they seem to exist only to fill a room, but then they are seen a second time, mentioned offhand a third, and three or four books later we can see they have had their own moves, networks, motives, and have been playing the game in thier own fashion, with their own personalities and concerns, all carefully thought out from the start, or artfully retrofitted when the need arose.

Most of the unnamed grizzled oarsmen and lithe dancing girls must remain just that, for the sake of the book-binding, but when GRRM gives a character a name, he nearly always adds two attributes straight away. Even if it is only a couple of adjectives (Mully, with his greasy orange hair, Vinegar Vaellyn the stargazer)  it is easy enough to turn an adjective into a motivation, a weakness, a foreshadowing. Which makes it terribly easy for even one-dimensional characters  to acquire a second (or even a third) dimension. We really won't know for sure who the one-dimensional characters are, until the Song is sung.

[Aetta]

Drogo. He grunts, humps, and rides horses. Sometimes all at the same time.

And that's about it.

 

[Aetta]

On 7/2/2021 at 7:57 AM, Nathan Stark said:

Lol, says the guy who clearly skimmed the first couple Sansa chapters in AGoT and skipped the rest. It's pretty clear you have no clue what you're talking about.

So I'm not the only one?

[WhatAnArtist!]

6 hours ago, Aetta said:

Drogo. He grunts, humps, and rides horses. Sometimes all at the same time.

And that's about it.

 

Drogo is so one-dimensional that it always makes me chuckle whenever Dany looks back on him with so much adoration. Him, Daario and Hizdahr... gods, Dany has had some awful men. 

[WhatAnArtist!]

I would propose Balon Greyjoy as one of the more one-dimensional characters in the series; at least one that is actually important. Despite being one of the "five kings" and kickstarting one of the most important storylines of the series - the ironborn invasion of the North - the man himself is very one-dimensional and uninteresting. He shows up for only two chapters, early in Clash, and has exactly two personality traits - he hates everything non-ironborn, and wants to Make the Iron Islands Great Again. His relationship with Theon is already somewhat familiar - we already have Tywin's disapproval of Tyrion, and Randyll Tarly's disapproval of Sam. That specific relationship had already been covered.

All in all, Balon was barely even a character; mostly just a plot device to kickstart the ironborn involvement in the series. I don't necessarily have a problem with this. Not every character needs to be Shakespearean in their depth and tragedy. He embodied the spirit of the ironborn at that specific time in their history well enough. Still a more interesting character than Victarian (though that's not saying much).

[TheLastWolf]

On 10/14/2021 at 8:34 AM, Walda said:

Podrick Payne: Ilyn Payne's only known relative. Honestly, he is one of those characters you can see, right from when he catches and cooks that trout with quiet competence, but especially from when he informs Tyrion that Lord Baelish awaits with tortured incompetence, that Pod is on a coming-of-age arc and has not only a back-story, but a future (as much as anyone in the Song can be said to have a future.)

Conspiracy theories in my timeline

 

On 10/14/2021 at 8:34 AM, Walda said:

Crona: err, you mean Chella, daughter of Cheyk, of the Black Ears, @The_Lone_Wolf? She is a female clan chief, which shows us that the clans of the the Mountains of the Moon will accept female leaders, and joins other hints that suggest some clans might have matriarchal power structures . Her clan has alliances with the Moon Brothers, and not the Stone Crows or the Burnt Men.  Chella led the charge when Tywin's van met the Northern army on the Green Fork. Shagga followed in her dust, leaving the Burnt Men behind with Tyrion. Chella personally seems very social and inclined to enjoy a throaty chuckle with most people she meets.

no it was another series lol