How split was the Riverlands military strength during Robert rebellion

[Mrstrategy]

How split was the Riverlands military strength during Robert rebellion since several house supported Aerys/Rhaegar over house Tully order of neutrality?

[The hairy bear]

They were very split. Perhaps it was close to be evenly split.

• Among the loyalist there where the Whents, the Darrys, the Mootons, the Goodbrooks, and the Rygers. The status of some of those houses has gone low after the Rebellion, but at time they were very powerful. The Whents where the richest lords of the Riverlands, and the Mootons controlled it's most important town and port. Also, geographically it seems as if the loyalists controlled the entire south-eastern half of the Riverlands.
• We know that the Freys remained neutral until a winner had emerged, and the Lychesters divided their forces between the two belligerents.
• Meanwhile, the only bannerman that we are sure that supported the Tullys are the Mallisters.

That would leave the Blackwoods, the Brackens, the two Vances and the Pipers as the major Riverland houses that we don't know who they fighted for. Most of them likely declared for the Tullys, but given historical precedent, it wouldn't be surprising that Blackwoods and Brackens choose different sides (perhaps the Blackwoods were loyalists, given that Aerys II was 1/4th Targaryen).

[Canon Claude]

8 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

They were very split. Perhaps it was close to be evenly split.

• Among the loyalist there where the Whents, the Darrys, the Mootons, the Goodbrooks, and the Rygers. The status of some of those houses has gone low after the Rebellion, but at time they were very powerful. The Whents where the richest lords of the Riverlands, and the Mootons controlled it's most important town and port. Also, geographically it seems as if the loyalists controlled the entire south-eastern half of the Riverlands.
• We know that the Freys remained neutral until a winner had emerged, and the Lychesters divided their forces between the two belligerents.
• Meanwhile, the only bannerman that we are sure that supported the Tullys are the Mallisters.

That would leave the Blackwoods, the Brackens, the two Vances and the Pipers as the major Riverland houses that we don't know who they fighted for. Most of them likely declared for the Tullys, but given historical precedent, it wouldn't be surprising that Blackwoods and Brackens choose different sides (perhaps the Blackwoods were loyalists, given that Aerys II was 1/4th Targaryen).

I think if the Blackwoods were loyalists, we would have heard about it by now. Just because the Blackwoods and Brackens have a feud, doesn’t mean they can’t work together. They both fought for Robb Stark, after all.

[The hairy bear]

Canon Claude,

I'm not saying they couldn't both support the same side. In fact, I believe that it's probably more likely that they both followed Hoster's commands. But we shouldn't discard the possibility that they didn't.

7 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

I think if the Blackwoods were loyalists, we would have heard about it by now.

When do you think it should have been mentioned? I may missremember, but I can't think of any particular moment when this should have been brought up naturally.

7 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

They both fought for Robb Stark, after all.

Both the Brackens and the Blackwoods had been treacherously attacked by the Lannisters without warning. By the time Robb was crowned, the Lannisters had taken Raventree Hall while Gregor Clegane had slaughtered Jonos's smallfolk and had left Stone Hedge "a smoking ruin". It's not that they chose a side in the war: they had no other option than to join Robb.

There's a pattern in past wars of them choosing different sides (Dance, Blackfyre Rebellion,...), and using the conflict as an excuse to attack their neighbours. For this reason, I think that there's some likelyhood of them joining different sides in the Rebellion.

[Canon Claude]

4 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

 

When do you think it should have been mentioned? I may missremember, but I can't think of any particular moment when this should have been brought up naturally.

 

Much of the Riverlands’ plot is told from Cat’s POV, and she isn’t one to forget past events. If one of her father’s bannermen had fought for the Targaryens and were now sitting on her son’s war councils, she’d have already thrown shade at them.

Plus we have that Jaime chapter in ADWD where he delves deep into the Blackwood and Bracken feud. I agree with you that they’ve definitely drawn lines in past wars, but if they had used Robert’s Rebellion as an excuse to reopen the feud, Jaime or Jonos or Tytos or even Hos would have brought  it up. All of them do plenty of exposition in that chapter, so why stay mum about such an important event as the Rebellion?

4 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

Canon Claude,

I'm not saying they couldn't both support the same side. In fact, I believe that it's probably more likely that they both followed Hoster's commands. But we shouldn't discard the possibility that they didn't.

It’s always a possibility, agreed, but I doubt it strongly for the reasons I gave above. 

[Impbread]

On 6/27/2021 at 2:03 AM, The hairy bear said:

They were very split. Perhaps it was close to be evenly split.

• Among the loyalist there where the Whents, the Darrys, the Mootons, the Goodbrooks, and the Rygers. The status of some of those houses has gone low after the Rebellion, but at time they were very powerful. The Whents where the richest lords of the Riverlands, and the Mootons controlled it's most important town and port. Also, geographically it seems as if the loyalists controlled the entire south-eastern half of the Riverlands.
• We know that the Freys remained neutral until a winner had emerged, and the Lychesters divided their forces between the two belligerents.
• Meanwhile, the only bannerman that we are sure that supported the Tullys are the Mallisters.

That would leave the Blackwoods, the Brackens, the two Vances and the Pipers as the major Riverland houses that we don't know who they fighted for. Most of them likely declared for the Tullys, but given historical precedent, it wouldn't be surprising that Blackwoods and Brackens choose different sides (perhaps the Blackwoods were loyalists, given that Aerys II was 1/4th Targaryen).

I feel like its implied that the Blackwoods and Brackens backed the Tullys. We get in depth to an extent when Jaime is there. Neither house mention they lost anything after the rebellion. Also Jaime doesn't mention them backing the crown where as every other house that did lost lands and titles. I feel like Hoss would have mentioned it being the history buff he is. Also the Tullys not any other character speak poorly of either house which leads me to believe the Tullys trusted them which would support them backing the Tullys and the rebellion. Also they don't have any men in the nights watch. Many of the losing side joined the watch but we don't hear of any river lander's for the most part being in the watch. I obviously don't have proof I just feel catelyn would have thought about their disloyalty or stripping them of lands. When Jaine is deciding what land to give the Brackens from the Blackwoods for their rebellion with Rob it would have been the perfect point for lord Blackwood to say 'take it east we have already  lost so much from the first rebellion. Also lord Brackencan' to say since we lost so much following Aerys we are going to need more from the Blackwoods.Its all but guaranteed that the Blackwoods road with Tullys especially if this rebellion gives us any insight to the previous. Their house was the last in open rebellion in the river lands. That says quite a bit about how they felt about the Tullys and their own loyalty  I can't imagine they would be so die hard if they were on separate sides in the previous rebellion. Same with Brackens they seem to be in the Tullys good graces as the Tullys are in theirs.Not going to lie dont know anything about the Pipers or the Vances. As for loyalists it is mentioned that the Darrys lost lands as well as the Goodbrooks. The Whents house was extinguished. Not sure if the Mootons just paid a fine or what. Obviously we don't know for sure but I think you are correct about who fought for who. 

 

[Impbread]

Not related but which houses in each kingdom were loyalists? This thread has me wondering now. 

Known loyalists:

Martell and Dorn

Mooton

Goodbrook

Darry

Whent 

Grafton 

Fell

Rowan 

Tarly 

Redwhine

Tyrells 

Velyron

Celtiger

Rosby 

Connington 

I don't know who Tarth fought for or the sisters..or if they even  fought. 

[Impbread]

On 6/27/2021 at 10:32 AM, Canon Claude said:

I think if the Blackwoods were loyalists, we would have heard about it by now. Just because the Blackwoods and Brackens have a feud, doesn’t mean they can’t work together. They both fought for Robb Stark, after all.

 

Completely agree. The Blackwoods were the last house still fighting on behalf of Rob and the Tullys. No way they became that staunch of an ally since the last rebellion. The Brackens would have been mentioned by Catelyn as of dubious loyalty if they abandoned them last time. She definitely would have had thoughts about the Brackens if she had suspicions. That was literally all she did was worry about Rob and his safety towards the end. If she thought Brackens or any other house was questionable she would have thought it  and we would have read that or she would have went to Rob with her suspicions. 

 

 

 

 

[Ser Leftwich]

Is Dorn a Klingon?

[Universal Sword Donor]

19 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Is Dorn a Klingon?

He's an American actor