The Oldest List

[LynnS]

Quote

 

A Feast for Crows - Samwell I

"Her and the boy. We will need to find another wet nurse for his milk brother."

"Goat's milk might serve, until you do. It's better for a babe than cow's milk." Sam had read that somewhere. He shifted in his seat. "My lord, when I was looking through the annals I came on another boy commander. Four hundred years before the Conquest. Osric Stark was ten when he was chosen, but he served for sixty years. That's four, my lord. You're not even close to being the youngest ever chosen. You're fifth youngest, so far."

"The younger four all being sons, brothers, or bastards of the King in the North. Tell me something useful. Tell me of our enemy."

"The Others." Sam licked his lips. "They are mentioned in the annals, though not as often as I would have thought. The annals I've found and looked at, that is. There's more I haven't found, I know. Some of the older books are falling to pieces. The pages crumble when I try and turn them. And the really old books . . . either they have crumbled all away or they are buried somewhere that I haven't looked yet or . . . well, it could be that there are no such books, and never were. The oldest histories we have were written after the Andals came to Westeros. The First Men only left us runes on rocks, so everything we think we know about the Age of Heroes and the Dawn Age and the Long Night comes from accounts set down by septons thousands of years later. There are archmaesters at the Citadel who question all of it. Those old histories are full of kings who reigned for hundreds of years, and knights riding around a thousand years before there were knights. You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night's King . . . we say that you're the nine hundred and ninety-eighth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but the oldest list I've found shows six hundred seventy-four commanders, which suggests that it was written during . . ."

"Long ago," Jon broke in. "What about the Others?"

 

This is puzzling.  What was Sam about to say? The oldest list that Sam finds suggests that it was written was during  --- what/when?

[Daeron the Daring]

23 minutes ago, LynnS said:

This is puzzling.  What was Sam about to say? The oldest list that Sam finds suggests that it was written was during  --- what/when?

I interpret it as Sam trying to guess the time when this was written with the help of how many LCs are listed, because to me it seems like it's the number is what suggests whatever he wanted to say, not some other info.

I even wonder how those people were able to name so many LC's considering the Andals came only 4000 years ago. But to be honest, it makes sense to be a thousand LCs total. That would mean the average timespan of a LC leading the watch is 8 years (which seems to be pretty accurate). I guess that list contains the most famous ones from the time of the First Men (I mean the ones who they remembered or had some records of on their runestones), and mostly all of them since the Andal invasion.

However, this way Sam wouldn't have to guess when was this written. But again, they surely know the names of the most recent ones, don't they? (Is this a paradox? It's pretty controversial, either way doesn't makes sense in the light of what we know so far, so I guess, yea) And it's already a wonder that so many names they know from the time of the First Men. 

[Megorova]

998 - 674 = 324

That list was written 324 LCs ago. Some LCs ruled for decades, but during epidemics, famines, serious conflicts with the wildlings, etc. they could have changed several times per year. Shivers in 59-60, Winter Fever in 132-133, Great Spring Sickness in 209-210. In those years the Night's Watch could have went thru a dozen of Lord Commanders per year.

So it seems likely that what Sam meant is that that list was written 324 LCs ago ~ 300 years ago = during Aegon's Conquest.

[LynnS]

46 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I interpret it as Sam trying to guess the time when this was written with the help of how many LCs are listed, because to me it seems like it's the number is what suggests whatever he wanted to say, not some other info.

I even wonder how those people were able to name so many LC's considering the Andals came only 4000 years ago. But to be honest, it makes sense to be a thousand LCs total. That would mean the average timespan of a LC leading the watch is 8 years (which seems to be pretty accurate). I guess that list contains the most famous ones from the time of the First Men (I mean the ones who they remembered or had some records of on their runestones), and mostly all of them since the Andal invasion.

However, this way Sam wouldn't have to guess when was this written. But again, they surely know the names of the most recent ones, don't they? (Is this a paradox? It's pretty controversial, either way doesn't makes sense in the light of what we know so far, so I guess, yea) And it's already a wonder that so many names they know from the time of the First Men. 

It's certainly very confusing.  I don't think it's a complete list.  Written record keeping came with the Andals and as you point out; the most recent names may be an accurate list of succession; the further back in time, the less reliable the list becomes.  Certain famous names may have been added from the oral history and Andalized to style them as knights and kings, then added to the list.  The list itself could contain gaps in time or holes in the actual succession.  I'm not even sure that the Night Watch was originally a military operation, but something more akin to a religious institution, serving the old gods.  The original oath of the NW was changed with the arrival of the Andals.  I'm not sure when this would have happened unless it was when Queen Nymeria sent 5 kings to the Wall.

42 minutes ago, Megorova said:

So it seems likely that what Sam meant is that that list was written 324 LCs ago ~ 300 years ago = during Aegon's Conquest

That could be.  Some maester at the Wall attempting to do what Sam is doing; compiling a list from old records with a line of succession that may be sketchy or contain gaps.   

[Megorova]

28 minutes ago, LynnS said:

compiling a list from old records with a line of succession that may be sketchy or contain gaps.   

Though maybe there is no gaps. Could be that the oldest written list of LCs that they have, the one that possibly was written after Aegon's Conquest, when the last King Stark gave his crown to Aegon, that's when maesters were allowed to join Night's Watch, and that's when based on lists made by Northmen/written on stones with runes, those maesters made the first list written on paper with Andal letters/Common Tongue. So that list is complete (was complete at the time it was written). And at that point in time, ~300 years ago, the latest LC was the 674th LC of NW. And that is the oldest/earliest list that NW has, because before that they were using either different system of recording their history, or they were passing down lists of all their previous LCs thru stories and legends, not thru written records. For example each new LC was supposed to learn the complete lists of his predecessors and then to pass down that information to his stewart and potential successor. So there may be no gaps in those lists, it's just that the list about which Sam was talking about, mentioned LCs from 1st to 674th. And that's the oldest list that they have. And also they have several other lists, written later than that first one, and in those lists there are LCs from 675th to 998th.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Though maybe there is no gaps.

I'm always wary of the unreliable narrator especially when something is being compiled by septons, from broken bits of history, written and otherwise.  For all I know, the septon came across the story of the 13th LC and nothing about the previous 12.  You'd think that the 1st LC would be remembered and named.   

[Megorova]

6 minutes ago, LynnS said:

You'd think that the 1st LC would be remembered and named.   

I think that he is remembered, it's just that GRRM hasn't revealed yet the entire history of Night's Watch founding and those first Starks, Bran the Builder and whoever of his relatives (or maybe even he himself) became the very first LC of NW.

The Last Hero - first Lord Commander of Night's Watch. It's a viable possibility.

[Bobity.]

 

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

The oldest histories we have were written after the Andals came to Westeros. The First Men only left us runes on rocks, so everything we think we know about the Age of Heroes and the Dawn Age and the Long Night comes from accounts set down by septons thousands of years later.

Love Sam's academic awareness on the unreliability of ancient historical sources. If names were only recorded after the Andal arrival, the 324 missing names would have predated the Andals, when the oral tradition of the Lord Commander count was preserved, but names were forgotten.

[TheLastWolf]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

This is puzzling.  What was Sam about to say? The oldest list that Sam finds suggests that it was written was during  --- what/when?

Or just simple interrupted sentence

[Seams]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

I'm always wary of the unreliable narrator

I think this goes directly to GRRM's purpose in "interrupting" Sam's recitation: he doesn't want to give us an exact historical timeline; he wants some ambiguity and contradiction in the story of the Night's Watch. This reflects the intertwined nature of legends and histories handed down from cultures such as the Celts.

We also know that some stories are lost over time: Rodrick the Reader is thrilled to obtain a few pages of a lost text. The Winterfell library burned (although not all contents were destroyed). Joffrey destroyed a rare volume of The Lives of Four Kings he received as a wedding gift. Sam was supposed to deliver books to the Citadel but he had to sell them to buy passage aboard a ship. 

Other stories appear to be made up: Lysa writes to Catelyn to say that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn. Littlefinger says the dragonbone dagger had been lost in a bet with King Robert. Ned Stark admits to committing treason. Tyrion claims to be a kingslayer after the death of Joffrey. 

We know that GRRM is showing us parallels between Old Nan's tales and other Westeros / Essos legends and the story arcs of the contemporary characters. Smudging the timeline between the historical record and the events of ASOIAF gives the reader a hint about connecting the "old" tales with the contemporary tales.

I think the temporal ambiguity may be particularly relevant to the Night's Watch. In my never-ending hunt for wordplay clues, I think the "watch" in Night's Watch can allude to a clock worn on one's wrist. I don't understand all of the subtleties of the chapter, but I have a strong suspicion that Lord Commander Mormont felt an urgent need to get Jon Snow to the Fist while he comet was visible on the day of a full moon. The timing was very important. Once they arrived, Mormont essentially drinks a potion he has taught Jon Snow to make (spiced wine), tells Jon to, "Sleep well," and then goes to sleep. (Edit: It's actually Jon telling Mormont to sleep well in Clash, Jon IV, which makes more sense if he is symbolically handing over command to his steward.) I think this is one symbolic moment in the transition from Mormont to Jon Snow as Lord Commander. He also gave Long Claw to Jon and, later, Donal Noye gives Jon the Wall:

Quote

"Jon, you have the Wall till I return."

For a moment Jon thought he had misheard. It had sounded as if Noye were leaving him in command. "My lord?" (Storm, Jon VIII)

It's interesting and perhaps relevant to this discussion of Night's Watch history that Donal Noye expects to return, in spite of the suicide mission he is about to undertake. Maybe he is aware of the cycle of rebirth that seems to keep key characters coming back into the story under new identities. 

In Jon's scene at the Fist, he leaves Mormont, touches base with Grenn and his other pals, and then slips out with Ghost to find the obsidian cache. I suspect a close reading of this scene would closely parallel the rewinding of a watch (an accessory worn around the base of a fist, just as Jon and Ghost walk around the base of the Fist) or perhaps the resetting of a watch. 

The direwolf Ghost's role may be a big clue here. 

Quote

Theon Greyjoy said, "There's not been a direwolf sighted south of the Wall in two hundred years."

"I see one now," Jon replied. (AGoT, Bran I)

There may have been a turning back of the clock when the direwolves appeared south of the Wall. The name "Ghost" may allude to the interaction of dead ancestors with living humans. At the end of AGoT, Mormont tells Jon Snow that he wants Jon's blood and his direwolf to go Beyond the Wall on the Great Ranging. Ghost is inexplicably friendly toward Melisandre, who hints that she is much older than she looks. I have a hunch that her shadow baby weapons involve both shadow and time, somehow. 

As for wordplay clues, at one point I took a look at uses of the words "pale cold" and wondered whether they are linked to the words "old place." These words could also offer a hint that the time on the symbolic watch is being reset. I suspect also that the thrice-repeated phrase in the pink letter,  "I want my bride back," is an anagram for "by backward in time." (The letters "by" don't make sense and may be leftovers, but the rest of the phrase would be relevant if the night's "watch" theory is correct.)

More wordplay speculation: "well" and "wall" may be opposites in ASOIAF. With the help of Sam Tarly, a Night's Watch man, Bran and his traveling companions pass through a well under the Wall to continue their journey to Bloodraven's cave. It's an important detail that Jon Snow gets past the guard at the stone ring fort on top of the Fist by telling him that he is going to fetch some water - as if he were going to a well. Aside from Mormont telling Jon to "sleep well," there was an earlier strange conversation between Sam Tarly and Jon Snow:

Quote

"Jon?" Samwell Tarly called up. "I thought it looked like you. Are you well?"

"Well enough." Jon hopped down. "How did you fare today?"

"Well. I fared well. Truly."

Jon was not about to share his disquiet with his friend, not when Samwell Tarly was at last beginning to find his courage. "The Old Bear means to wait here for Qhorin Halfhand and the men from the Shadow Tower."

Sam is calling up and Jon is hopping down. It's almost as if SamWELL is in a well and Jon is on a Wall. And then they symbolically say "farewell" to each other. And then we get the explanation of waiting for men from the Shadow Tower which I suspect might be the Night's Watch equivalent of Valhalla, where dead Night's Watch brothers hang out until they are needed again. Mormont came to the Fist because he knew they could reunite with dead guys at this time and place. 

Septon Chayle, who is thrown in a well and then seems to turn up at Castle Black may be another clue about the connection between resetting time and wells. 

[Julia H.]

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

This is puzzling.  What was Sam about to say? The oldest list that Sam finds suggests that it was written was during  --- what/when?

Whatever Sam was going to say must be important, in my opinion. Interrupted sentences seem to be like huge flags signalling that there is something important hidden there if anyone wants to start digging. 

One thing that bothers me is Sam's use of the word but:

we say that you're the nine hundred and ninety-eighth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but the oldest list I've found shows six hundred seventy-four commanders, which suggests that it was written during . . ."

If he wanted to say simply that the present LC is the 998th one, and the oldest list contains 674 names, so the oldest list was written at whatever time period the difference in numbers suggests, why would he use but as a conjunction? There is no contradiction in this train of thought. Could it be that he wants to say the list should have been written 324 LC's ago but in fact the document has a date and it clearly cannot be 324 LC's ago, so the numbers do not match? That would explain the use of but. He also says which suggests... instead of which means, and it may also indicate that there is a difference between what is suggested and the date that is actually known.

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

it may only go so far back because the nights watch existed before the andles and their writing system, meaning the pre andle names would have to be recorded on runes or not recorded at all.

alternatively maybe it only goes so far back because (tin foil on) the wall was once a place of kings not subject to any rule. we assume nights king was a baddy because we are told that, but there were hundreds of first men kingdoms. in legends the nights king ruled for 13 years which may be inccorect, but if it is true it is a long time for him to rule. im also skeptical on him bewitching all ~10000 of his men

[StarksInTheNorth]

5 hours ago, LynnS said:

It's certainly very confusing.  I don't think it's a complete list.  Written record keeping came with the Andals and as you point out; the most recent names may be an accurate list of succession; the further back in time, the less reliable the list becomes.  Certain famous names may have been added from the oral history and Andalized to style them as knights and kings, then added to the list.  The list itself could contain gaps in time or holes in the actual succession.  I'm not even sure that the Night Watch was originally a military operation, but something more akin to a religious institution, serving the old gods.  The original oath of the NW was changed with the arrival of the Andals.  I'm not sure when this would have happened unless it was when Queen Nymeria sent 5 kings to the Wall.

That could be.  Some maester at the Wall attempting to do what Sam is doing; compiling a list from old records with a line of succession that may be sketchy or contain gaps.   

I think this hits it on the head. There's one POV (Sansa?) that calls Serwyn of the Mirror Shield a kingsguard knight. But Serwyn is most famous for slaying a dragon, which suggests that he wouldn't be on the kingsguard after slaying his king's dragon, and is also known to be a mythical figure from 1000s of years ago.

So even if it was a somewhat accurate list, I doubt it would be that correct.

There's two historical king lists that this reminds me of, though, which would suggest that ~1000 lord commanders isn't actually enough for all the 1000s of years since the last Long Night, but is too many since the advent of writing.

• There's the Turin Kings List of Ancient Egyptian Pharaohs, which lists around 200 pharaohs across approximately 1500 years. That's about the average of 7.5-8 years hypothesized here by @Daeron the Daring.
• The other list that it reminds me of the Irish Kings List, which is significantly longer and also definitely dates into a mythological realm whereas the Egyptian one has lots of accounted-for kings. If you have the time and willpower, clicking through the list and wikipedia quickly shows that many of the labeled mythological High Kings of Ireland are descended from gods or spirits or, in one case, an alleged Egyptian princess.

So even if it does show all these hundreds of lords, it most definitely has at least a few mythical ones.

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

I think that he is remembered, it's just that GRRM hasn't revealed yet the entire history of Night's Watch founding and those first Starks, Bran the Builder and whoever of his relatives (or maybe even he himself) became the very first LC of NW.

The Last Hero - first Lord Commander of Night's Watch. It's a viable possibility.

I question whether the Night Watch started out as a military operation with one fort.  It's possible it was a religious brotherhood serving the old gods and it's original purpose was changed along with the oath to reflect Andal beliefs and replace any practices that were of a religion that they were determined to eliminate.  I suspect the story of the Night King reflects that takeover and the Night King was the last priest of the brotherhood but counted among the first Lord Commanders.   I do think he was another Bran and someone with greenseer/3rd eye abilities.

3 hours ago, Seams said:

We know that GRRM is showing us parallels between Old Nan's tales and other Westeros / Essos legends and the story arcs of the contemporary characters. Smudging the timeline between the historical record and the events of ASOIAF gives the reader a hint about connecting the "old" tales with the contemporary tales.

Exactly so.  The tales of the Night King (of Winter?) appear to have some parallels with Bran, Jon and Arya.  The tale of three' prentice boys who dream of someone who appears as someone different to each of them; sounds very much like the god of many faces/faceless man come to test greenseers. They die shortly after perhaps from a fall and a dream of flying.  The fourth goes mad and we have tales of Mad Axe who seems the counterpart to Euron. These sound like sacrifices made to the old gods. 

The parallels between Bran (the one whose name cannot be spoken) and the Night King whose name is erased from history - a name that cannot be spoken, is one similarity.   The Night King knew no fear and and neither does Bran.  Old Nan's stories are meant to instruct Bran on his own recklessness.

 

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Julia H. said:

If he wanted to say simply that the present LC is the 998th one, and the oldest list contains 674 names, so the oldest list was written at whatever time period the difference in numbers suggests, why would he use but as a conjunction? There is no contradiction in this train of thought. Could it be that he wants to say the list should have been written 324 LC's ago but in fact the document has a date and it clearly cannot be 324 LC's ago, so the numbers do not match? That would explain the use of but. He also says which suggests... instead of which means, and it may also indicate that there is a difference between what is suggested and the date that is actually known.

This is a very good explanation.

[Julia H.]

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

This is a very good explanation.

Thanks, but now I'm wondering what could possibly be the significance of Jon not being LC #998 but (for example) LC #1225. Or is it only another detail to highlight how much the Watch has forgotten? In that case, what's the interrupted sentence for? Sam could just as well have finished it. 

[Seams]

15 minutes ago, Julia H. said:

Thanks, but now I'm wondering what could possibly be the significance of Jon not being LC #998 but (for example) LC #1225. Or is it only another detail to highlight how much the Watch has forgotten? In that case, what's the interrupted sentence for? Sam could just as well have finished it. 

It's also interesting that Jon is specifically requesting information about The Others and Sam turns the subject back to the history of the Night's Watch and the number of Lord Commanders. Are the two histories intertwined?

The oath says that the sworn brothers will father no sons but many of them travel to Mole's Town for sex with prostitutes. Maybe there is a Craster-like "underground" pipeline of Night's Watch babies going from Mole's Town beyond the Wall to the Others.

[Impbread]

12 hours ago, Seams said:

I think this goes directly to GRRM's purpose in "interrupting" Sam's recitation: he doesn't want to give us an exact historical timeline; he wants some ambiguity and contradiction in the story of the Night's Watch. This reflects the intertwined nature of legends and histories handed down from cultures such as the Celts.

We also know that some stories are lost over time: Rodrick the Reader is thrilled to obtain a few pages of a lost text. The Winterfell library burned (although not all contents were destroyed). Joffrey destroyed a rare volume of The Lives of Four Kings he received as a wedding gift. Sam was supposed to deliver books to the Citadel but he had to sell them to buy passage aboard a ship. 

Other stories appear to be made up: Lysa writes to Catelyn to say that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn. Littlefinger says the dragonbone dagger had been lost in a bet with King Robert. Ned Stark admits to committing treason. Tyrion claims to be a kingslayer after the death of Joffrey. 

We know that GRRM is showing us parallels between Old Nan's tales and other Westeros / Essos legends and the story arcs of the contemporary characters. Smudging the timeline between the historical record and the events of ASOIAF gives the reader a hint about connecting the "old" tales with the contemporary tales.

I think the temporal ambiguity may be particularly relevant to the Night's Watch. In my never-ending hunt for wordplay clues, I think the "watch" in Night's Watch can allude to a clock worn on one's wrist. I don't understand all of the subtleties of the chapter, but I have a strong suspicion that Lord Commander Mormont felt an urgent need to get Jon Snow to the Fist while he comet was visible on the day of a full moon. The timing was very important. Once they arrived, Mormont essentially drinks a potion he has taught Jon Snow to make (spiced wine), tells Jon to, "Sleep well," and then goes to sleep. (Edit: It's actually Jon telling Mormont to sleep well in Clash, Jon IV, which makes more sense if he is symbolically handing over command to his steward.) I think this is one symbolic moment in the transition from Mormont to Jon Snow as Lord Commander. He also gave Long Claw to Jon and, later, Donal Noye gives Jon the Wall:

It's interesting and perhaps relevant to this discussion of Night's Watch history that Donal Noye expects to return, in spite of the suicide mission he is about to undertake. Maybe he is aware of the cycle of rebirth that seems to keep key characters coming back into the story under new identities. 

In Jon's scene at the Fist, he leaves Mormont, touches base with Grenn and his other pals, and then slips out with Ghost to find the obsidian cache. I suspect a close reading of this scene would closely parallel the rewinding of a watch (an accessory worn around the base of a fist, just as Jon and Ghost walk around the base of the Fist) or perhaps the resetting of a watch. 

The direwolf Ghost's role may be a big clue here. 

There may have been a turning back of the clock when the direwolves appeared south of the Wall. The name "Ghost" may allude to the interaction of dead ancestors with living humans. At the end of AGoT, Mormont tells Jon Snow that he wants Jon's blood and his direwolf to go Beyond the Wall on the Great Ranging. Ghost is inexplicably friendly toward Melisandre, who hints that she is much older than she looks. I have a hunch that her shadow baby weapons involve both shadow and time, somehow. 

As for wordplay clues, at one point I took a look at uses of the words "pale cold" and wondered whether they are linked to the words "old place." These words could also offer a hint that the time on the symbolic watch is being reset. I suspect also that the thrice-repeated phrase in the pink letter,  "I want my bride back," is an anagram for "by backward in time." (The letters "by" don't make sense and may be leftovers, but the rest of the phrase would be relevant if the night's "watch" theory is correct.)

More wordplay speculation: "well" and "wall" may be opposites in ASOIAF. With the help of Sam Tarly, a Night's Watch man, Bran and his traveling companions pass through a well under the Wall to continue their journey to Bloodraven's cave. It's an important detail that Jon Snow gets past the guard at the stone ring fort on top of the Fist by telling him that he is going to fetch some water - as if he were going to a well. Aside from Mormont telling Jon to "sleep well," there was an earlier strange conversation between Sam Tarly and Jon Snow:

Sam is calling up and Jon is hopping down. It's almost as if SamWELL is in a well and Jon is on a Wall. And then they symbolically say "farewell" to each other. And then we get the explanation of waiting for men from the Shadow Tower which I suspect might be the Night's Watch equivalent of Valhalla, where dead Night's Watch brothers hang out until they are needed again. Mormont came to the Fist because he knew they could reunite with dead guys at this time and place. 

Septon Chayle, who is thrown in a well and then seems to turn up at Castle Black may be another clue about the connection between resetting time and wells. 

I like where you suggest the arrival of the Dire wolves is like resetting a watch. In a sense they are bringing the old ways back with them. Their arrival is the first bit of magic in the story. Even if they aren't being warged yet. John sensed the quiet wolf and direwolves south of the wall is magical in itself. I can't recall how long its been since they were spotted before they arrived. I'd be willing to bet it coincides with the dragons dying out.

[Impbread]

10 hours ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

it may only go so far back because the nights watch existed before the andles and their writing system, meaning the pre andle names would have to be recorded on runes or not recorded at all.

alternatively maybe it only goes so far back because (tin foil on) the wall was once a place of kings not subject to any rule. we assume nights king was a baddy because we are told that, but there were hundreds of first men kingdoms. in legends the nights king ruled for 13 years which may be inccorect, but if it is true it is a long time for him to rule. im also skeptical on him bewitching all ~10000 of his men

I'm not sure he literally bewitched his men. I think he was merely sacrificing to the cold gods undetected. To wash the stain away they claimed they were spell bound to excuse the fact they didn't know what he was up to. 

[Impbread]

12 hours ago, Julia H. said:

Whatever Sam was going to say must be important, in my opinion. Interrupted sentences seem to be like huge flags signalling that there is something important hidden there if anyone wants to start digging. 

One thing that bothers me is Sam's use of the word but:

we say that you're the nine hundred and ninety-eighth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but the oldest list I've found shows six hundred seventy-four commanders, which suggests that it was written during . . ."

If he wanted to say simply that the present LC is the 998th one, and the oldest list contains 674 names, so the oldest list was written at whatever time period the difference in numbers suggests, why would he use but as a conjunction? There is no contradiction in this train of thought. Could it be that he wants to say the list should have been written 324 LC's ago but in fact the document has a date and it clearly cannot be 324 LC's ago, so the numbers do not match? That would explain the use of but. He also says which suggests... instead of which means, and it may also indicate that there is a difference between what is suggested and the date that is actually known.

I think he was just going to state a time period. Jon knows this that is why he cut him off and said what Sam was going to say. If it were that important Sam would have informed someone. Every other significant find he alerts someone. Like the lethality of the dragon glass against others.