The Young Wolf and the Hound

[Canon Claude]

It’s one of the most interesting what-ifs in ASOS. The Hound captures Arya and plans to take her to the Twins and bring her back to her brother, Robb. He claims that if Robb is smart, he’ll reward Sandor with a lordship, and in return, Sandor will fight for the Starks. Arya denies that Robb would ever take the Hound into his service, in which case Sandor retorts that he’ll just demand a ransom instead. 
 

I’m neither a Stark fanboy or a Stark hater, but this scenario has always intrigued me. Assuming that the Freys didn’t carry out the Red Wedding, and Sandor strolls in with Arya in tow, how would the Starks have rewarded him?

I could easily see Robb or Catelyn being too proud to take up Sandor on his offer of service, given his history with the Lannisters. But on the other hand, Robb would look like a pretty big hypocrite for turning Sandor away after he married Jeyne Westerling. Plus, it would be a big blow to the Lannisters’ reputation if one of their best warriors joined the Starks. And moreover, I could imagine that Robb would be smart enough to know that he needs all the help he can get. Why not give Sandor a minor lordship? Why not put him on the front lines when battle hits? And it’s not like we’re talking about whether or not Arya would be returned or not, Sandor would have taken a cash reward instead, and Catelyn would have been desperate enough to beg Robb for Arya’s return. The question is whether the Hound would have been welcomed under the Young Wolf’s banner.

Any thoughts?

[Springwatch]

I don't know... I suppose it depends on how bad the Hound's reputation is (he really works hard at being obnoxious). Robb won't like him because the Hound embarrassed him about duelling with live steel... but Robb's been to war now, and he's not quite the young idealist he was. He must realise that some of his own troops behave as badly as the Lannisters. So, maybe?

[The Hoare]

There's no way he would be taken into service, he's a oathbreaker with a recently earned fame of cowardice. I suppose the Hound would receive a lot of gold either way

[Floki of the Ironborn]

One of the tragedies of Robb's character is his inability to trust the right people. He puts his faith in Theon Greyjoy, Roose Bolton, Rickard Karstark, Rolph Spicer, Lady Westerling, and they all betray that trust. While I would have loved nothing more than see Sandor Clegane become Robb's most feared warrior, Robb wouldn't have appreciated or liked Sandor enough to trust him. Robb wouldn't have understood Sandor's anguish, his insecurities, his memories of being tortured by his brother, his eyes weren't open wide enough. He would have judged him like Ned would have judged him (perhaps rightly so, given what Sandor did to Mycah), and sent him on his way while he laughed at the boy king. 

[chrisdaw]

It's foreshadowing for when Sandor turns cloak from the Lannisters (Sansa/Tyrion) to Stark (Jon/Arya), and it will be a bigger blow than it would have been then because Sandor will be Kingsguard to Tyrion when he turns cloak for Jon's invading forces.

When Sandor says Robb needs him, he just doesn't know it yet, that is foreshadowing for Jon needing Sandor for a reason he won't know until Sandor reveals it. Like every northern army invading the south crossing the Trident will be a situation, but Sandor knows the secret way through the QI, and when Jon trusts Sandor to lead him and his force(s) through there, the QI will have received their seventh Rhaegar ruby.

The things Sandor says about Stannis/Robert are also foreshadowing for Jon/Robb.

Quote

"Lord Stannis is no coward."

"He's not the man his brother was either. Robert never let a little thing like a river stop him."

 

[TheLastWolf]

The time we ponder on what might have been... 

Sigh 

[Impbread]

12 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

It’s one of the most interesting what-ifs in ASOS. The Hound captures Arya and plans to take her to the Twins and bring her back to her brother, Robb. He claims that if Robb is smart, he’ll reward Sandor with a lordship, and in return, Sandor will fight for the Starks. Arya denies that Robb would ever take the Hound into his service, in which case Sandor retorts that he’ll just demand a ransom instead. 
 

I’m neither a Stark fanboy or a Stark hater, but this scenario has always intrigued me. Assuming that the Freys didn’t carry out the Red Wedding, and Sandor strolls in with Arya in tow, how would the Starks have rewarded him?

I could easily see Robb or Catelyn being too proud to take up Sandor on his offer of service, given his history with the Lannisters. But on the other hand, Robb would look like a pretty big hypocrite for turning Sandor away after he married Jeyne Westerling. Plus, it would be a big blow to the Lannisters’ reputation if one of their best warriors joined the Starks. And moreover, I could imagine that Robb would be smart enough to know that he needs all the help he can get. Why not give Sandor a minor lordship? Why not put him on the front lines when battle hits? And it’s not like we’re talking about whether or not Arya would be returned or not, Sandor would have taken a cash reward instead, and Catelyn would have been desperate enough to beg Robb for Arya’s return. The question is whether the Hound would have been welcomed under the Young Wolf’s banner.

Any thoughts?

I definitely think they would reward him handsomely. At that particular time Catelyn isnt sure Arya is even still alive. The fact Sandor returned her unharmed. You know she would give him anything within reason. Rob would also be just as happy. Leaves him another heir and it will get his mother out of his business now that she has another child to care for. I was extremely intrigued with the thought of the Hound joining the Stark army after rescuing both Stark girls. Perhaps facing his own brother sooner rather than later. I think The Starks would reward him but I'm not sure Rob would except him after bailing on his last king he swore to protect until one if their deaths. I guess he would welcome a warrior like that and find him a spot far away from himself if that is what he prefers.

[Impbread]

11 hours ago, The Hoare said:

There's no way he would be taken into service, he's a oathbreaker with a recently earned fame of cowardice. I suppose the Hound would receive a lot of gold either way

Of course he would at that point he lost the Karstark army. Still hasn't regained the Frey army he lost. Most river lords returned home. He was in need of soldiers. Soldiers  like the Hound are almost impossible to just stumble upon as a free agent. He would definitely accept him. Camp followers and hedge knights ride with him. No way he turns down the service of the man that returns Arya to her grieving mother. Starks always do the honorable thing. The Hound never wronged house Stark. He saves Sansa from being raped and possibly killed. Helps her keep Joffrey from sticking the kingsguard on her. He also helped Arya return to her family. They don't know the BWOB was going to do the same thing. The Starks have no reason to say no. And every reason t6be grateful 

[The Commentator]

15 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

It’s one of the most interesting what-ifs in ASOS. The Hound captures Arya and plans to take her to the Twins and bring her back to her brother, Robb. He claims that if Robb is smart, he’ll reward Sandor with a lordship, and in return, Sandor will fight for the Starks. Arya denies that Robb would ever take the Hound into his service, in which case Sandor retorts that he’ll just demand a ransom instead. 
 

I’m neither a Stark fanboy or a Stark hater, but this scenario has always intrigued me. Assuming that the Freys didn’t carry out the Red Wedding, and Sandor strolls in with Arya in tow, how would the Starks have rewarded him?

I could easily see Robb or Catelyn being too proud to take up Sandor on his offer of service, given his history with the Lannisters. But on the other hand, Robb would look like a pretty big hypocrite for turning Sandor away after he married Jeyne Westerling. Plus, it would be a big blow to the Lannisters’ reputation if one of their best warriors joined the Starks. And moreover, I could imagine that Robb would be smart enough to know that he needs all the help he can get. Why not give Sandor a minor lordship? Why not put him on the front lines when battle hits? And it’s not like we’re talking about whether or not Arya would be returned or not, Sandor would have taken a cash reward instead, and Catelyn would have been desperate enough to beg Robb for Arya’s return. The question is whether the Hound would have been welcomed under the Young Wolf’s banner.

Any thoughts?

We can’t assume that the Starks would give Sandy a generous reward. He murdered Micah. Though they might do something under the table but it will be less than what Sandor can hope for.  Robb is a Stark. And the Starks are hypocrites.  Wolf boy could just as easily punish Sandor.  

[Springwatch]

Might make a difference if he turned up with Arya saying kill him, he murdered Mycah - or with Sansa saying he saved my life.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

The hound abandoned his white cloak.  Ned wouldn't have hired/ ennobled him on that basis alone (see Jamie Lannister), and I suspect that Robb would try to emulate the old man's example whenever making lordly or kingly decisions.  It'd be a little sticky and I'm sure Robb would find a way to justify not executing him and giving him some sort of ransom for his troubles, but taking him into his household or anything greater would likely be out of the question.

[James Steller]

It's debatable what Robb might think about the Hound offering his services, given what a fearsome killer he is.

But what most are forgetting to factor in is the fact that Arya would not vouch for the Hound. She would have urged Robb and Catelyn that he was a monster who killed her friend, and while he did bring her safely to the Twins, and he had earned himself a reward, he would have been sent away. And the Hound would have walked off laughing. Maybe he would have gone to Essos instead?

[Julia H.]

I imagine Robb would reward Sandor somehow, if not exactly with a lordship, and Catelyn would secretly hire him to go and find Sansa (for the promise of a lordship, if he could bring her home safe), and Sandor would be happy to oblige, while Arya would loudly be demanding that Sandor be punished.

[Springwatch]

I read this recently (it's Tyrion):

Lord Eddard is a proud, honorable, and honest man, and his lady wife is worse. Oh, no doubt she would have found a coin or two for you when this was all over, and pressed it into your hand with a polite word and a look of distaste, but that's the most you could have hoped for. The Starks look for courage and loyalty and honor in the men they choose to serve them [...]

[John Suburbs]

On 6/28/2021 at 5:02 PM, Canon Claude said:

It’s one of the most interesting what-ifs in ASOS. The Hound captures Arya and plans to take her to the Twins and bring her back to her brother, Robb. He claims that if Robb is smart, he’ll reward Sandor with a lordship, and in return, Sandor will fight for the Starks. Arya denies that Robb would ever take the Hound into his service, in which case Sandor retorts that he’ll just demand a ransom instead. 
 

I’m neither a Stark fanboy or a Stark hater, but this scenario has always intrigued me. Assuming that the Freys didn’t carry out the Red Wedding, and Sandor strolls in with Arya in tow, how would the Starks have rewarded him?

I could easily see Robb or Catelyn being too proud to take up Sandor on his offer of service, given his history with the Lannisters. But on the other hand, Robb would look like a pretty big hypocrite for turning Sandor away after he married Jeyne Westerling. Plus, it would be a big blow to the Lannisters’ reputation if one of their best warriors joined the Starks. And moreover, I could imagine that Robb would be smart enough to know that he needs all the help he can get. Why not give Sandor a minor lordship? Why not put him on the front lines when battle hits? And it’s not like we’re talking about whether or not Arya would be returned or not, Sandor would have taken a cash reward instead, and Catelyn would have been desperate enough to beg Robb for Arya’s return. The question is whether the Hound would have been welcomed under the Young Wolf’s banner.

Any thoughts?

A full lordship probably wouldn't happen unless Robb's bannermen agreed to it, since it involves lands, castles, incomes, etc. So maybe something honorary, like LF and Varys. Or maybe something like becoming Arya's sworn shield? How ironic.

[Seams]

On 6/28/2021 at 5:02 PM, Canon Claude said:

It’s one of the most interesting what-ifs in ASOS. The Hound captures Arya and plans to take her to the Twins and bring her back to her brother, Robb. He claims that if Robb is smart, he’ll reward Sandor with a lordship, and in return, Sandor will fight for the Starks. Arya denies that Robb would ever take the Hound into his service, in which case Sandor retorts that he’ll just demand a ransom instead. 

This is a fascinating question! I usually stay away from "what if" discussions but this is a good one and could be foreshadowing of some kind. 

I see Sandor as a potential "kingmaker," like Criston Cole and Quentyn Ball. The three of them all have complicated Kingsguard connections and all undergo a change of loyalties. Sandor and Quentyn are associated with fire. (Criston may have that association, too, if you see him as a spark provoking the dragon vs. dragon civil war.) Sandor and Criston both have important tourney victories that seem to foreshadow specifics of their kingmaker roles. 

Some salient events in the Sandor / Stark relationship:

• Sandor killed Mycah. He proved his innocence in a trial by combat, however, by "killing" Beric Dondarrion (a symbolic Ned / Robert combo figure, imho). Ser Beric is the one who "kisses" Catelyn to awaken her as Lady Stoneheart.
• Sandor "won" the Hand's Tourney by acclaim and concession after saving Ser Loras from the rage of Ser Gregor and after King Robert intervenes to stop the fight. The characters in the Hand's Tourney all seem to play symbolic or literal roles in the story arc of Ned Stark that continues after his death. 
• Sandor seems to have an unrequited love for Sansa. He demonstrates this by saving her during the bread riot, when Joffrey humiliated Sansa after Robb's military victory (at the Whispering Woods?) and when he went to her after deserting at the Battle of the Blackwater. Granted, it was Tyrion who ordered a stop to the attack by Joffrey and the Kingsguard on Sansa:

Quote

"Someone give the girl something to cover herself with," the Imp said. Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. The coarse weave was scratchy against her skin, but no velvet had ever felt so fine. (Clash, Sansa III)

In Westeros, giving a woman a cloak is he equivalent of marriage. I believe this is the first time Sansa accepts a cloak in the series. Does this make Sandor the symbolic "good brother" of Robb? Is the ambiguous "unkiss" between Sandor and Sansa like the ambiguous breaking of the friendship between Criston Cole and Princess Rhaenyra? 

The Starks would have probably excused the killing of Mycah after learning that Sandor "won" his trial by combat. They also would have admired his intervention in keeping Ser Gregor from killing Ser Loras. Deserting Joffrey would be considered a good thing (although not proof of loyalty) and delivering Arya the most important action in his interactions with the Starks. 

I agree with Julie H. that, if he had joined the Stark side of the war, Sandor probably would have been given a special mercenary mission to rescue Sansa. I bet Robb would have given him the assignment before Catelyn even had a chance to hire him. Sandor also would have been debriefed on a lot of key information about goings-on inside the Red Keep. 

If he succeeded in that mission, I bet Robb would have given him a lordship. Maybe he would have been the new Lord Hornwood! 

Although the fates of Criston Cole and Quentyn Ball do not provide good indications that there would be a long and happy retirement for Sandor Clegane. It may be a form of foreshadowing that Criston Cole died at the Butcher's Ball: symbolically bringing together the "ball" symbolism from Quentyn and the butcher symbolism from the death of the butcher's boy, Mycah. Quentyn Ball died while stopping for a drink of water on the eve of the battle known as the Redgrass Field. According to the Elder Brother, the Hound symbolically (??) died soon after Arya brought him a drink of water in his helmet.