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Best Father

Darth Sidious

By Darth Sidious,
in General (ASoIaF)

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Mystical Council Member

Mystical

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IMO the best fathers aren't even on the OP list. I'd probably pick Wyman on that list but I would need to know a little more first before making a definitive statement. The rest on that list sucked. Ned failed his children except he at least isn't outright abusive like a lot on that list.

But my top 3 would probably be (in no particular order):

Oberyn Martell

Selwyn Tarth

Mace Tyrell

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TheLastWolf Council Member

TheLastWolf

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17 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Bonifer Hasty

 

13 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Who is Bonifer's son? Rhaegar?

Ser Bonifer Hasty and Rhaella Targaryen could have had a daughter who might’ve been passed off as a stillbirth to the Mad King. She could have been given to that chandler and could have married that lesser Payne and had Pod. She might not have run away, but could be one of the women whose identity is still a mystery till ADWD.

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Julia H. Council Member

Julia H.

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A precise ranking of all these fathers would be difficult, so here is my opinion of them instead: 

The two best ones are Ned and Wyman. They both love their children deeply, make sacrifices for them, and have brought them up to be good people. I know more about Ned than about Wyman, but that perhaps shouldn't be the basis of ranking the two. (As a person, I like Ned more.)

Hoster: He seems to be a decent enough medieval father. Cat has fond memories of him from her childhood. Lysa, on the other hand, was deeply traumatized by him, however, there are things in his defence. Although his decisions regarding his daughters' fate were based on political considerations, he may well have thought that what he was doing was also for Lysa's own good, the lesser evil. Not wanting to marry one of his daughters to Petyr seems, in retrospect, a wise decision, even if his motivations were primarily political. Still, I think at that point, he may have seen something of Petyr's character as well. First, the boy asked for the hand of one of the sisters, and, when refused, he made the other sister pregnant. That sounds much more like a fortune hunter than a devoted admirer, so if Hoster had reason to refuse Petyr for the first time, he had more reason to reject him now. Then he couldn't let Lysa become an unmarried mother, nor did he want to marry her to one of his guardsmen - both situations would adversely affect Lysa's life and status, as well as the political position of House Tully. Also, as a man, he may not have realized what exactly induced abortion means to a woman. I seem to remember that he was remorseful about Lysa on his deathbed, and, if it is so, he may have secretly suffered also when his daughter was suffering, without being able to help her. Then he probably never was able to discuss it with her, psychology not being one of his strong points. 

Oberyn seems to be loved by his daughters, which obviously means something, and his daughters are also well-placed in society, able to pursue their interests, and love each other (which is also an important point).

I would include Jeor Mormont among the good, loving fathers. He gave up his lordship and took the black in order to give his son everything he owned, which is a rather serious sacrifice. He also kept loving his son even in his disgrace and forgave him for his crimes.  

Robert was not a good father. He had no bond with his supposed legitimate children - though it may have been partly Cersei's fault - but he at least tried to secure the right kind of in-laws for his heir. He is also worried about the negative traits in Joffrey, which is a plus. He neglected his numerous bastards, apparently, as the years passed, more and more. Points in his favour: He may have given the original order to Varys (and others) to look after his bastards at least, and I think he wanted to take Edric to court once, but Cersei warned him it wouldn't be good for Edric (Cersei again!). He did not abuse his children, which is not much to say for a father, but in Westeros even that seems to count for something.  

Walder as a father... While he keeps his sons and daughters, legitimate and illegitimate, around in his castle, and they get food, shelter and clothes, I think most of them are probably as neglected as Robert's children - or were when they were kids. He seems to regard his numerous familiy members as assets rather than actual living human beings. But he is clearly not the worst on the list, about the same as Robert. Walder is marginally better due to keeping his bastards in his castle, but then he never had to put up with the objections of a wife like Cersei. On the other hand, his cavalier attitude towards Jinglebell when Jinglebell is threatened by Cat does not speak well of him (even if Jinglebell is only  a grandson) - but that falls into the category of viewing them as assets rather than individuals.

Roose, Tywin, Aerys II: They are bad fathers. Roose may have been decent enough towards Domeric, but we don't really know about it. What we see is that he first pretty much neglects his bastard, then makes him his heir even though he is almost sure that Ramsay killed Domeric. What is more, he knows Ramsey will probably kill Walda's children, and he does not care. (Well, apparently.) Based on his own words, he is mostly concerned with keeping his genetic material and name alive, and does not care what sort of person his children are or even what happens to his individual children as long as one of them carries on his genes. Tywin is not as crude as Roose, but at the end of the day, what matters to him is the power and influence of his family, and he does not care what happens to his children individually while he is pursuing this goal. Aerys is mad and unpredictable, and I wouldn't entrust him with the fate of a dog, let alone children.  

Randyll Tarly is definitely at the bottom of my list, together with Craster - we shouldn't leave out Craster, should we?

Let me finish with questions: Where would you all put Jaime on this list? Or is it fair to include him at all?

How about Balon Greyjoy? 

 

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TheLastWolf Council Member

TheLastWolf

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6 minutes ago, Julia H. said:

Randyll Tarly is definitely at the bottom of my list, together with Craster - we shouldn't leave out Craster, should we?

Sargasm from me earlier. And the climax pun intended 

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Mystical Council Member

Mystical

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2 hours ago, Julia H. said:

Let me finish with questions: Where would you all put Jaime on this list? Or is it fair to include him at all?

To whom has Jamie ever been a father? And no, biology does not make one a father. Jamie is a glorified sperm donor.

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Julia H. Council Member

Julia H.

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12 minutes ago, Mystical said:

To whom has Jamie ever been a father? And no, biology does not make one a father. Jamie is a glorified sperm donor.

You may be right. Still, he was well aware that he had children, he knew them personally, he knew that their legal father never knowingly adopted them, and all that gave him some sort of responsibility, on the basis of which his parenting could be judged. Ignoring your duties does not mean you don't have duties. 

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Angel Eyes Council Member

Angel Eyes

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1 hour ago, Julia H. said:

You may be right. Still, he was well aware that he had children, he knew them personally, he knew that their legal father never knowingly adopted them, and all that gave him some sort of responsibility, on the basis of which his parenting could be judged. Ignoring your duties does not mean you don't have duties. 

Would Cersei have allowed him to act as their father? From what I recall she discouraged it out of fear that Robert would be suspicious.

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Julia H. Council Member

Julia H.

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2 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Would Cersei have allowed him to act as their father? From what I recall she discouraged it out of fear that Robert would be suspicious.

Yes, I also think it was so. She probably helped prevent both "fathers" from developing a bond with her children.

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Lord of Brewtown Hedge Knight

Lord of Brewtown

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I'm a little surprised that everyone has Aerys II and Roose so far down the list.  Being a madman or murderous cold-blooded killer may not be helpful attributes to being a good father; but, they are not mutually exclusive.  

For those who ranked Roose as poor, I assume that because you believe he should have recognized Ramsey prior to Domeric's death?  I think that partially applies modern 'norms' to the Westeros universe that don't apply, as it wasn't necessarily common to recognize bastards, especially to common mothers.   By all accounts, Roose seemed to be a good father to Domeric.  

Likewise, Aerys went mad.  He is difficult to judge, as we really don't know much about him/how he raised Rhaegar or Viserys.  Viserys was also mad, making it difficult to judge what impact Aerys had; but, by most accounts Rhaegar was OK (depending on your thoughts on if he raped Lyanna or not).   

I'd put Hoster much lower than others have him.  Edmure strikes me as somewhat spoiled, and yet, acts as if Hoster never really gave him love/respect, and what he did to Lysa is a major negative/showed lack of empathy.  

 

For as many kids as he had Walder probably has to be ranked up there with Ned.  

 

 

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