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Mario Seddy

Why didn't Robert denounce House Lannister for their crimes in King's Landing?

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Why didn't Robert denounce House Lannister for their crimes in King's Landing?  

Atleast why didn't he order an investigation into the deaths of Elia Martell and her children to appease the Dornish? 

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Yup. Tywin's army is still pretty much intact in King's Landing while the rebels are battered and bloody and exhausted from the Trident and then the fast march to the capital. An investigation would plunge the new dynasty into a political crisis that it cannot afford right now.

Plus, I'm sure Jon Arryn, at least, would note that Tywin has the only daughter to make a viable queen at this point.

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And to add to the above, he’s a testosterone heavy young male who blames them for taking away (and possibly sexually abusing) the girl he was obsessed with. I don’t think he gave a dang.

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On 7/2/2021 at 12:19 PM, Mario Seddy said:

Why didn't Robert denounce House Lannister for their crimes in King's Landing?  

Atleast why didn't he order an investigation into the deaths of Elia Martell and her children to appease the Dornish? 

1) Does Westeros recognize war crimes?

2) Robert wanted them dead. He was both grateful and happy that Tywin did that. IF Tywin did not do it he would have done it.

3) Appeasing the Westerlands is more important than the Dornish

4) It was never officially revealed that Tywin was behind it, people ITK were aware of it, but it was never the stated result. There is no need for Robert to make it official, it sullys his name in the history books

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Because screw those Targaryen dragonspawn. They deserved everything the Lannisters did to them. According to Robert.

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13 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

1) Does Westeros recognize war crimes?

Aegon V, send Brynden Rivers to the Wall because he killed that Blackfyre. 

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2 hours ago, Eddard's said:

Aegon V, send Brynden Rivers to the Wall because he killed that Blackfyre. 

But that was because Bloodraven(as the HotK) tainted the throne's reputation with betrayal

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  • Robert hated Rhaegar, so why would he care what happened to his kids. Tywin just helped him win Kings Landing on top of all that. We all know what happened to Robb when he killed Rickard Karstark, for killing two children, who were also his enemies

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6 hours ago, Eddard's said:

Aegon V, send Brynden Rivers to the Wall because he killed that Blackfyre. 

 

Bloodaven offered him the Crown's guarantee that he would have safe conduct at Kings Landing. He then had him executed when he turned up at the city under the guise of peace. Aegon had cause to angry.

Egg is not Robert. Tywin's actions were not done in the Crown's name.

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On 7/2/2021 at 12:19 PM, Mario Seddy said:

Why didn't Robert denounce House Lannister for their crimes in King's Landing?  

Atleast why didn't he order an investigation into the deaths of Elia Martell and her children to appease the Dornish? 

Tywin was untouchable.  He has an army of 12,000 men, and rules millions.

Ser Amory and Ser Gregor, were almost certainly not untouchable.  Tywin is not going to go to war to protect them.  It would be very easy for him to profess himself shocked, shocked I tell you! at the way they exceeded orders.

The answer lies with Robert.  He was delighted by the deaths of Elia and her children, for he hated all Targaryens for depriving him of Lyanna. And,  he rewarded the Lannisters accordingly, by marrying Cersei.

A more canny ruler would have seen that punishing the murderers of Elia and her children would have been an excellent piece of PR.

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1 hour ago, SeanF said:

And,  he rewarded the Lannisters accordingly, by marrying Cersei.

You mean, Jon Arryn?? 

To OP's question, Robert hated Rhaegar and anything he represented. He simply didn't care enough to exact justice. 

 

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

A more canny ruler would have seen that punishing the murderers of Elia and her children would have been an excellent piece of PR.

It would have given him nothing however, well he would not have argued with Ned, so there's that.

Without punishing Tywin, there was no appeasement possible with Dorne and it's not like bar Ned, people dwell in it much. They all knew that Tywin's hand was behind it... So, who would have just accept the sham??

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Robert had a burning hatred for all Targaryen. By killing Elia Martel and her children, Tywin did all the dirty work. It would be a black mark on the beginning of Robert's reign if the scandal was made widely known.

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13 hours ago, SeanF said:

A more canny ruler would have seen that punishing the murderers of Elia and her children would have been an excellent piece of PR.

Good PR with who? Forcing a confrontation with the only one of the great lords to come out of the rebellion unscathed and arguably the most influential lord is only going to keep the civil war going. There's plenty of Targaryen loyalists that Robert and company just subdued, the Tyrells certainly come to mind, that might think backing the lion is suddenly the way to go. There wouldn't be any guarantee of victory for Robert either, even if that does firmly win Dorne over to his cause. Tywin wouldn't have the weaknesses that Rhaegar and Aerys displayed during the rebellion. Robert touching off another rebellion for "PR" when he hasn't even consolidated his authority is only going to lend credence to his title as Usurper. 

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How would Tywin react if robert had sentenced amoy lorch and gregor clegane to death or the nights watch or prison time?

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1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Good PR with who?

No one imo. 

 

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Forcing a confrontation with the only one of the great lords to come out of the rebellion unscathed and arguably the most influential lord is only going to keep the civil war going.

Tywin isn't going to war over those two brutes- He would happily pay the price if he has to, The thing is that no matter how prevalent the notion of "Tywin did it", "Gregor did it". There's no evidence relating them to the murder.

 

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

There's plenty of Targaryen loyalists that Robert and company just subdued, the Tyrells certainly come to mind, that might think backing the lion is suddenly the way to go.

They were as good as subdued after the Trident. 

Regardless, claims do matter, the lions have none to hold anything that isn't Casterly Rock, divisions help Viserys's cause, who at this point is alone in Dragonsyone. Given that Tywin had just presented the rebel leaders the children's bodies, he would not be particularly friendly with the loyalists.

 

 

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Tywin wouldn't have the weaknesses that Rhaegar and Aerys displayed during the rebellion.

What strenghts would he have?? He is a child killer. He would be reviled by both loyalist and rebels alike-

 

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Robert touching off another rebellion for "PR" when he hasn't even consolidated his authority is only going to lend credence to his title as Usurper. 

I mean. not really?? It would be dispensing Justice. 

It's massively stupid and risky to lose Tywin to the potential chance of patching things up with Dorne.

Regardless @SeanF point was that only Gregor and Lorch are punished, so this apocalyptic scenario doesn't realy happen, unless Tywin is unusually attached to those two.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/25/2021 at 10:43 PM, Lord Lannister said:

Good PR with who? Forcing a confrontation with the only one of the great lords to come out of the rebellion unscathed and arguably the most influential lord is only going to keep the civil war going. There's plenty of Targaryen loyalists that Robert and company just subdued, the Tyrells certainly come to mind, that might think backing the lion is suddenly the way to go. There wouldn't be any guarantee of victory for Robert either, even if that does firmly win Dorne over to his cause. Tywin wouldn't have the weaknesses that Rhaegar and Aerys displayed during the rebellion. Robert touching off another rebellion for "PR" when he hasn't even consolidated his authority is only going to lend credence to his title as Usurper. 

Good PR with the political class of the Seven Kingdoms generally.  No one would care if Elia of Flea Bottom were killed with her children.  It's the fact that Elia of Dorne and her children were murdered that causes the stink.  It's a constant embarrassment to the new regime.

Tywin to Robert was like Walder Frey to Tywin.  He had nowhere else to go, after his betrayal.

Tywin had no more chance of mending fences with Targaryen loyalists than the Freys have of mending them with the North after the Red Wedding.   Tywin needs Robert far more than the latter needs him.  

Sadly, Tommen and Myrcella will die because of what was done to Elia and her infants, because the cycle of atrocity and revenge perpetuates itself.

Edited by SeanF

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On 7/2/2021 at 7:19 AM, Mario Seddy said:

Why didn't Robert denounce House Lannister for their crimes in King's Landing?  

Atleast why didn't he order an investigation into the deaths of Elia Martell and her children to appease the Dornish? 

Would Robert and Stannis restrain their men from doing the same thing? I don’t believe it would have turned out differently. Loot is part of a soldier’s compensation. The lord shows his generosity without spending a coin.

This is why The Unsullied are important to the story. They will fight as professionals and only do the amount of damage needed for the task.  If you’re going to be attacked and conquered, you hope it’s by The Unsullied. 

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50 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Good PR with the political class of the Seven Kingdoms generally.  No one would care if Elia of Flea Bottom were killed with her children.  It's the fact that Elia of Dorne and her children were murdered that causes the stink.  It's a constant embarrassment to the new regime.

Is it, though?

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1 hour ago, mormont said:

Is it, though?

IMHO, it is.  It's not something anyone brags about,  or just shrugs off as "It's war, shit happens."  Even Tywin has to go through the motions, at least, of trying to provide justice to the Dornish.

Yandel invents a ridiculous story about Elia killing her own children in her grief, a bit of propaganda that fools no one.  Barristan, Jaime, Ned, in their POV's all reveal a lot of unhappiness about it.  In fact, fear that Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella will face the same end is what brings about Ned's downfall, when he tries to persuade Cersei to flee.  Jon Con and the Sands want Tommen (and perhaps Myrcella) to die brutally in revenge.  

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