Why is Marwyn making the long journey to meet Dany?

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

Worth noting that it sure sounds like Marwyn has Targaryen blood too...

3 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

"If I tell you, they may need to kill you too." Marywn smiled a ghastly smile, the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth. "Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. "The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can."

A Feast for Crows - Samwell V

This is interesting.  I'm not sure who Urrathon Nightwalker is at this point.  The only glass candles we know are burning are at Citadel, Marwyn's 'house'.  While Quaithe warns about those travelling to her; she also warns about the glass candles.  Could Marwyn be Ironborn?  He seems to have an unusual relationship the Reader; sending him books etc.

 

[Seams]

On 7/6/2021 at 4:46 AM, Falcon2909 said:

Marwyn is currently travelling by ship to meet Dany. But why make the journey? 

Some tinfoil for your consideration.

I mentioned in a recent thread that I think GRRM may want us to compare The Others to Dany and her armies, all of which have invasion inentions for taking over Westeros. 

What if we are supposed to compare Marwyn to Waymar? The wordplay between the two names is not quite exact but I have the feeling that this kind of minor tweak (changing one letter "n" to a letter "a") is within his rules for anagrams. 

My most recent re-read of the AGoT prologue led me to suspect that Ser Waymar had a very determined agenda that told him to seek out The Others. The people around him thought he was a young, ambitious fool but they didn't know what was going on inside his mind. 

Similarly, we don't quite understand what secret motive Marwyn has for making a beeline to Dany. 

If the two are parallel characters, the glass candle could be like Ser Waymar's sword, which shatters after clashing against the sword of one of the wights. 

Marwyn's connection to Mirri Maz Duur leads me to look for a woman in Ser Waymar's arc who could be a parallel. My mind falls upon Myranda, known as Randa, Royce. (Ser Waymar's brother and the heir to House Royce is named Andar, just to make the connection more clear.) Watch out, Sansa! Or should Randa be the one to watch out: MMD burned in the pyre, after all. If the parallel is consistent, Myranda Royce may have an icy death in store. 

[SocratesSnow]

On 7/6/2021 at 9:57 PM, Falcon2909 said:

Will he arrive during the battle in mereen? and those dragons will be in the air with no one to tame them until dany returns months later.

Maybe he will?  He'll still get to see them, no?   

 

Months later?  That is at best, conjecture. We don't know when Dany will return.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 7/6/2021 at 4:46 AM, Falcon2909 said:

Marwyn is currently travelling by ship to meet Dany. But why make the journey? 

Since he has managed to light a glass candle he should be able to use it to talk to Dany like Quaithe does. He doesn't need to make the lengthy, risky voyage to meet her. He can advise her though his glass candle.

The glass candles are not precise.  The information which he needs to convey is too important and should be handled in person. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 7/7/2021 at 2:15 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Daenerys Targaryen is the most important person in the story.  If you notice, a lot of very importance characters are making their way to Essos to meet Her Grace.  It's almost as if Marwyn was waiting for her all these years.  Transferring information is not his only objective.  He wants to protect Daenerys. 

Dany is the Prince Who Was Promised because Valyrian is gender neutral.  She is also the reborn Azor Ahai.  There is no better place for Marwyn to be than at her side as her advisor. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 7/8/2021 at 12:48 PM, Serddar said:

Dragons, magic surrounding her, her bloodline... there are many interesting and important things happening around Dany.

Marwyn wants to help her. He can't do that while surrounded by enemies at the Citadel. He's changing sides.

[Darth Sidious]

The archmaester is a man of action. He looks forward to the trip. The Citadel has nothing to offer him. There’s nothing to hold him back. Serving Daenerys Targaryen is the best use of his life and it is an honor. 

[sifth]

Doesn't he believe Dany is destined to save the world from The Others? He's going to Dany, to be her maester and advise her of the threat on The Wall.

[Lord Lannister]

21 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Marwyn wants to help her. He can't do that while surrounded by enemies at the Citadel. He's changing sides.

I think it's as simple as this. There doesn't always have to be some grand complicated conspiracy behind every character's actions.

[The Commentator]

On 7/6/2021 at 11:38 AM, SocratesSnow said:

One word. Dragons. He wants to see them for himself. 

 

On 7/6/2021 at 3:46 PM, Orion2 said:

he doesnt want to get shanked by the maesters

 

Both are reasons enough.  

[Mourning Star]

5 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

There doesn't always have to be some grand complicated conspiracy behind every character's actions.

There doesn't HAVE to be... but since we are here, and this post got me thinking about Marwyn...

First, GRRM takes great care with his names, so what's in this one? Mar-Wyn

Mar- means "the sea" in Latin 

-Wyn is a suffix meaning "friend" in welsh, or possibly "wine", or from gwyn which means "white" or "blessed".

So Marwyn then could mean something like, friend of the sea.

And the first time he is mentioned:

"Marwyn, he named himself," the woman replied in the Common Tongue. "From the sea. Beyond the sea. The Seven Lands, he said. Sunset Lands. Where men are iron and dragons rule. He taught me this speech."
"A maester in Asshai," Ser Jorah mused. "Tell me, Godswife, what did this Marwyn wear about his neck?"
"A chain so tight it was like to choke him, Iron Lord, with links of many metals."

The other detail we can glean here is that Marwyn met Miri Maz Dur before Robert's Rebellion, since dragons still ruled the Sunset Kingdoms, and this makes sense since Marwyn's chain was so tight, he must have been relatively young.

"Do you believe in ghosts, Maester?" he asked Qyburn.
The man's face grew strange. "Once, at the Citadel, I came into an empty room and saw an empty chair. Yet I knew a woman had been there, only a moment before. The cushion was dented where she'd sat, the cloth was still warm, and her scent lingered in the air. If we leave our smells behind us when we leave a room, surely something of our souls must remain when we leave this life?" Qyburn spread his hands. "The archmaesters did not like my thinking, though. Well, Marwyn did, but he was the only one."

Then we get Qyburn mentioning Marwyn above, and these are the only two mentions of Marwyn until Feast for Crows, when he appears on page.

While the line, "the menagerie hates the mastiff", is absolutely fantastic. I keep getting stuck on this one passage:

"If I tell you, they may need to kill you too." Marywn smiled a ghastly smile, the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth. "Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. "The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can."

Because while this is a great potential insight into the designs of the archmaesters, except we heard a different explanation from Mormont as to why Aemon came to the Wall.

Jon was not entirely innocent of the history of the realm; his own maester had seen to that. "That was the year of the Great Council," he said. "The lords passed over Prince Aerion's infant son and Prince Daeron's daughter and gave the crown to Aegon."
"Yes and no. First they offered it, quietly, to Aemon. And quietly he refused. The gods meant for him to serve, not to rule, he told them. He had sworn a vow and would not break it, though the High Septon himself offered to absolve him. Well, no sane man wanted any blood of Aerion's on the throne, and Daeron's girl was a lackwit besides being female, so they had no choice but to turn to Aemon's younger brother—Aegon, the Fifth of His Name. Aegon the Unlikely, they called him, born the fourth son of a fourth son. Aemon knew, and rightly, that if he remained at court those who disliked his brother's rule would seek to use him, so he came to the Wall. And here he has remained, while his brother and his brother's son and his son each reigned and died in turn, until Jaime Lannister put an end to the line of the Dragonkings."

Aemon's blood was literally why he choose to go to the Wall, so it doesn't seem to make much sense blaming the archmaesters.

So what is with what Marwyn said to Sam? Can the citadel make an Archmaester of a brother of the Night's Watch? Does this mean they can leave the wall? Is Marwyn just making wild accusations? Who is Marwyn that his blood makes him untrustworthy?

So many questions...

[Aebram]

On 7/13/2021 at 2:41 PM, Mourning Star said:

So many questions...

I'll take a stab at some answers.

First, replying to an earlier point: Mirri said she went to Asshai a long time ago, "when I was younger and more fair." So even if Dany does remember Marwyn's name from a brief mention 25,000 pages ago, she has no reason to think that Marwyn had anything to do with Mirri's behavior in AGOT. 

I haven't read all the SSMs. I know that GRRM coniders character names to be important, but are they so important that he would take a word from Latin, and a suffix from Welsh with four pssible meanings, to make a name?  How many languages is he known to borrow from?

At the time of AGOT, the dragons had been extinct in Westeros for more than a century.  I doubt that either Mirri or Marwyn is old enough to remember living dragons.  When Mirri referred to the land "where dragons rule," she must have been referring to Targeryens, not actual dragons.

Aemon chose to become a maester instead of a king.  But the decision to send him to the Wall was probably made by the Archmaesters, not by him personally. 

The oath of the Night's Watch doesn't require the brothers to spend the rest of their lives at the Wall.  Men like Yoren traveled throughout Westeros seeking men and supplies. Benjen Stark was allowed to visit Winterfell when King Robert was there. We don't know of any reason why a black brother can't go to the Citadel and earn a chain, if his lord commander orders him to do so.

I think some readers have misniterpreted that line, "he could not be trusted ... no more than I can." Marwyn was not giving a hint about his own blood/family.  He was just saying that he's another person that the archmaesters didn't trust, because of his expertise and interest in the higher mysteries.

[Mourning Star]

21 hours ago, Aebram said:

I haven't read all the SSMs. I know that GRRM coniders character names to be important, but are they so important that he would take a word from Latin, and a suffix from Welsh with four pssible meanings, to make a name?  How many languages is he known to borrow from?

It is without a doubt possible, he certainly uses plenty of greek, Latin, and welsh roots for naming, and honestly it’s mind blowing how meaningful the names he chooses are.

Lots of them are plays on how they sound, like Aerys (eris - strife) or  Aemon (Amon, the hidden one) and there are biblical references like Jaime (derived from Jacob, who came into the world holding his twin’s heel, just like Jaime), or straight translations like Orell (Orel - eagle in Russian). Frankly the list goes on and on.

However, especially when trying to interpret the names in parts, obviously it’s possible I’m making too much of a stretch. However, I think there are other examples to support this kind of theory. Take Moqorro for example (mock - oro, or false gold) or Luwin (lupine - wolf, and wyn - friend; wolf friend) or Jaqen H’ghar (Jaken - wise, Hagar - stranger).

Some of the meanings we see in the name choices were certainly intended and others are likely us just finding unintended connections, but it’s fun to consider.

Quote

At the time of AGOT, the dragons had been extinct in Westeros for more than a century.  I doubt that either Mirri or Marwyn is old enough to remember living dragons.  When Mirri referred to the land "where dragons rule," she must have been referring to Targeryens, not actual dragons.

Sorry if there was confusion, I thought it was clear I meant Targaryens, which means it was at least 16 years before the events of Game.

Quote

Aemon chose to become a maester instead of a king.  But the decision to send him to the Wall was probably made by the Archmaesters, not by him personally. 

I do not understand what the archmaesters had to do with it, that is what I’m saying. There is certainly no indication they ordered Aemon to the Wall, or even have ever ordered someone to the Wall. Aemon was offered the crown and turned it down because of his blood. 

Quote

The oath of the Night's Watch doesn't require the brothers to spend the rest of their lives at the Wall.  Men like Yoren traveled throughout Westeros seeking men and supplies. Benjen Stark was allowed to visit Winterfell when King Robert was there. We don't know of any reason why a black brother can't go to the Citadel and earn a chain, if his lord commander orders him to do so.

Going south for a task with the intent of returning is not the same as a permanent post in the south, and as we see in the series ancient archmaesters don’t retire.

It is just very hard to see how the Citadel was involved with what appears to be Aemon’s choice to go to the wall, and his choosing to stay there, a choosing who’s difficulty is highlighted by him on the page in his conversations with Jon.

Quote

I think some readers have misniterpreted that line, "he could not be trusted ... no more than I can." Marwyn was not giving a hint about his own blood/family.  He was just saying that he's another person that the archmaesters didn't trust, because of his expertise and interest in the higher mysteries.

I don’t think you can ignore the preceding sentence.

His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can.

It’s possible, I guess, that Marwyn didn’t mean his blood was why… but that is really not how it reads and if so it’s a very peculiar way to say that, especially for someone who’s name sounds Valyrian and who’s family/parentage are not clear to us.

[The Commentator]

On 7/6/2021 at 11:38 AM, SocratesSnow said:

One word. Dragons. He wants to see them for himself. 

Yes. And to assist his rightful monarch and ruler, Queen Daenerys.

 

 

[The Commentator]

Is Marwyn a Targaryen?  It is possible but why not say “because our blood could not be trusted.”  He could come from a loyal house.  Darry.  

[SocratesSnow]

2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Yes. And to assist his rightful monarch and ruler, Queen Daenerys.

 

 

Maesters serve a location, not a particular house. 

[Mister Smikes]

On 7/6/2021 at 1:46 AM, Falcon2909 said:

Marwyn is currently travelling by ship to meet Dany.

Is that what he was doing?  Or merely what he told Sam he was doing?  He might be just placating Sam.  "Don't worry, Sam.  Don't mind Maester Aemon's instructions.  You can forget all about that.  Because I now have this covered."  Meanwhile, off he goes to the Cinnamon Wind to take possession of Maester Aemon's kingsblood corpse, Mance's kingsblood baby, and Maester Aemon's books of dragon lore

[James West]

Marwyn has a duty to go to Dany.  He was the maester who delivered her on Dragonstone?  He needed proof and the dragons is it.  Now he knows where to go. 

[Loose Bolt]

14 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Is Marwyn a Targaryen?  It is possible but why not say “because our blood could not be trusted.”  He could come from a loyal house.  Darry.  

"Marwyn has a thick neck and a strong jaw. He is short and squat with enormous hands, a thick chest and a hard ale-belly. " https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Marwyn

Marwyn looks more like Ibbenese than Valyrian. So one reason why other maesters do not trust to Marwyn could be that he has some "alien" blood in his veins.

[Mourning Star]

5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

"Marwyn has a thick neck and a strong jaw. He is short and squat with enormous hands, a thick chest and a hard ale-belly. " https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Marwyn

Marwyn looks more like Ibbenese than Valyrian. So one reason why other maesters do not trust to Marwyn could be that he has some "alien" blood in his veins.

I actually think these characteristics fit with the Targaryen family. In particular the strong jaw, thickly build, and seemingly broken nose. We see these traits in the descriptions of the brothers Maekar and Baelor:

Thickly built and powerful, the prince—he was surely a prince— wore a leather brigandine covered with silver studs beneath a heavy black cloak trimmed with ermine. Pox scars marked his cheeks, only partly concealed by his silvery beard

His short-cropped hair was dark and peppered with grey, his strong jaw clean-shaven. His nose looked as though it had been broken more than once.