Why is Marwyn making the long journey to meet Dany?

[Loose Bolt]

16 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

I actually think these characteristics fit with the Targaryen family. In particular the strong jaw, thickly build, and seemingly broken nose. We see these traits in the descriptions of the brothers Maekar and Baelor:

Thickly built and powerful, the prince—he was surely a prince— wore a leather brigandine covered with silver studs beneath a heavy black cloak trimmed with ermine. Pox scars marked his cheeks, only partly concealed by his silvery beard

His short-cropped hair was dark and peppered with grey, his strong jaw clean-shaven. His nose looked as though it had been broken more than once.

 

In my head canon Targs are elves (tall and beautiful) but Marwyn looks like classical dwarf (short and ugly but VERY strong). But I assume that it is possible that some Valyrian slept with Ibbenese and somehow M survived when most children of that kind pedigree would not have had even a chance of survival.

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

On 7/6/2021 at 4:46 AM, Falcon2909 said:

Marwyn is currently travelling by ship to meet Dany. But why make the journey? 

Since he has managed to light a glass candle he should be able to use it to talk to Dany like Quaithe does. He doesn't need to make the lengthy, risky voyage to meet her. He can advise her though his glass candle.

Why? He just found out that his monarch is alive and has hatched three dragons.  Daenerys is the heir to the Targaryen throne.  Westeros is suffering because of the Lannisters, Starks, Baratheons, and Greyjoys.  Westeros had it much better under Targaryen rule. He wants to convince his queen to come home and bring discipline back to Westeros. 

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

A lot of people have small amounts of Targaryen blood.  But that has never kept a Baratheon from betraying them.  Blood alone would not make someone loyal.  Marwyn's loyalty must run deeper than blood. Something he learned overseas led him to sympathize with the Targaryens.  If not sympathize, at least take their side against the maesters. 

[Roswell]

I get the feeling that he (Marwyn) has chosen his team years ago.  He doesn't have the tunnel vision of the other maesters.  He's a Targaryen supporter who may have done something in the past to cause the citadel to doubt his loyalty to their order.  Ser Willem Darry and his few loyal men could not have escaped in time without help.  Marwyn or somebody sent a warning. 

[Damsel in Distress]

On 7/16/2021 at 6:06 AM, Loose Bolt said:

"Marwyn has a thick neck and a strong jaw. He is short and squat with enormous hands, a thick chest and a hard ale-belly. " https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Marwyn

Marwyn looks more like Ibbenese than Valyrian. So one reason why other maesters do not trust to Marwyn could be that he has some "alien" blood in his veins.

He's the Friar Tuck on Dany's team.       He's an academic with rough edges. 

 

[Damsel in Distress]

Why is Marwyn making the long journey to meet Dany?

1. To offer his knowledge as a maester. 
2. To show fealty to Empress Daenerys Targaryen.
3. He's a scholar who thirsts for information.  It's the field trip of a lifetime. 
4. His life won't be long when the news of a rising Targaryen reaches The Citadel.  The rats will murder a Targaryen supporter out of fear.  He is known to support the Targaryen family. 
5. He wants to see dragons with his own eyes.  Second-hand tales won't do. 

[StarksInTheNorth]

The context of his decision is fairly important. Aemon told Sam that the maesters must send someone to Daenerys to bring her home and to guide her. The maesters will likely get it in their hand to send someone soon enough, but there's no for sure chance that they get someone who actually will help her. He leaves immediately so that he can be the first maester to her and can take the role over someone who is a Citadel-appointee.

[The Commentator]

On 7/15/2021 at 5:23 PM, SocratesSnow said:

Maesters serve a location, not a particular house. 

Marwyn is not the typical maester.   Daenerys is not your average noblewoman. She’s the heir to Westeros and the Targaryen who brought back the mighty dragons. It’s natural for Marwyn to want to be in her council.

 

 

[SocratesSnow]

On 7/22/2021 at 12:10 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

Marwyn is not the typical maester.   Daenerys is not your average noblewoman. She’s the heir to Westeros and the Targaryen who brought back the mighty dragons. It’s natural for Marwyn to want to be in her council.

 

 

It is natural for him to be curious, as far as wanting to be "in her council", that's an assumption you are making.  

 

She's only the heir to anything if she can take it and keep it. 

[Mister Smikes]

On 7/21/2021 at 8:06 AM, StarksInTheNorth said:

The context of his decision is fairly important. Aemon told Sam that the maesters must send someone to Daenerys to bring her home and to guide her. The maesters will likely get it in their hand to send someone soon enough, but there's no for sure chance that they get someone who actually will help her.

Marwyn is not on Sam's side, not on Aemon's side, nor on Dany's side.  He pretends to be, so he can keep Sam calm until Sarella and the Alchemist, can put Sam to bed (permanently) after luring him to a deserted tower overlooking the river on the Isle of Ravens.

On 7/21/2021 at 8:06 AM, StarksInTheNorth said:

He leaves immediately so that he can be the first maester to her and can take the role over someone who is a Citadel-appointee.

He leaves immediately so he can collect Aemon's books of occult lore, Aemon's kingsblood corpse, and Mance's kingsblood baby, for use in blood magic rituals.  Probably the goal is to "wake dragons out of stone" and create a rival dragon power to that of Dany, on behalf of whatever faction (not Dany) that Marwyn actually serves.

[StarksInTheNorth]

1 hour ago, Mister Smikes said:

Marwyn is not on Sam's side, not on Aemon's side, nor on Dany's side.  He pretends to be, so he can keep Sam calm until Sarella and the Alchemist, can put Sam to bed (permanently) after luring him to a deserted tower overlooking the river on the Isle of Ravens.

He leaves immediately so he can collect Aemon's books of occult lore, Aemon's kingsblood corpse, and Mance's kingsblood baby, for use in blood magic rituals.  Probably the goal is to "wake dragons out of stone" and create a rival dragon power to that of Dany, on behalf of whatever faction (not Dany) that Marwyn actually serves.

um . . . what?

[StarksInTheNorth]

 

2 hours ago, SocratesSnow said:

It is natural for him to be curious, as far as wanting to be "in her council", that's an assumption you are making.  

 

She's only the heir to anything if she can take it and keep it. 

It's not an assumption, it's literally what Marwyn tells Sam:

 

Alleras stepped up next to Sam. "Aemon would have gone to her if he had the strength. He wanted us to send a maester to her, to counsel her and protect her and fetch her safely home."

. . .

"Get myself to Slaver's Bay, in Aemon's place. The swan ship that delivered Slayer should serve my needs well enough. The grey sheep will send their man on a galley, I don't doubt. With fair winds I should reach her first." Marwyn glanced at Sam again, and frowned. "You . . . you should stay and forge your chain. If I were you, I would do it quickly. A time will come when you'll be needed on the Wall." He turned to the pasty-faced novice. "Find Slayer a dry cell. He'll sleep here, and help you tend the ravens."

[Mister Smikes]

2 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

um . . . what?

Explain the question.  Marwyn is in league with Pate's murderer, and practices blood magic, which is the darkest form of sorcery.  Surely the thought occurred to you that he was not a nice guy and that Sam should not be trusting him?  Surely that thought occurred to you?  Right?

[Springwatch]

46 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Marwyn is in league with Pate's murderer, and practices blood magic

um . . . what?

Is this more from those blasted semi-canon sources? It's new to me.

[Mister Smikes]

5 hours ago, Springwatch said:

um . . . what?

Is this more from those blasted semi-canon sources? It's new to me.

Which do you challenge?  

Marwyn allowed a faceless assassin to be present during his long interview with Sam, even though he obviously means to keep the things said in this interview secret.  The faceless assassin was impersonating Pate at the time.  It is ridiculous so suppose that Marwyn would have permitted the half-witted Pate to be present at such a meeting.  So Marwyn obviously knows the faceless assassin is not Pate.  Marwyn ordered Sam to be put to bed, and it now appears that a faceless assassin is about to carry out those orders.  So yes, Marwyn is obviously in league with the faceless assassin who murdered Pate.

Mirri and Qyburn each practice blood magic and/or dark sorcery of the worst kind.  Both are former students and/or associates of Marwyn.  Qyburn is a depraved mad scientist, necromancer, sadistic vivisectionist. and frankensorcerer, who was rightly expelled from the citadel.  Qyburn considers his less-depraved colleagues at the citadel to be "sheep" with one notable exception, Marwyn.  Only Marwyn had any understanding or appreciation of Qyburn's ways of thinking.  Marwyn has been to Asshai, and studied under warlocks and shadowbinders.   A "warlock" is generally defined as a practitioner of evil magic, and a "shadowbinder" is evidently some sort of necromancer who binds the shadows of dead people.  Marwyn sacrifices to strange gods.  I guess, if you prefer not to take all these heavy hints, you can imagine that the only thing he sacrifices to these queer gods are pommegranites and melons.  Moreover, Marwyn and his cabal (a sand snake and a faceless assassin) intercepted Sam before he could report in to the Citadel, pumped him for information, and are now off to his ship, where are located Aemon's books, Aemon's kingsbood corpse, and Mance's kingsblood baby.  So yes, Marwyn is not a nice guy, and is interested in blood magic and/or other kinds of dark sorcery.

[StarksInTheNorth]

1 hour ago, Mister Smikes said:

Which do you challenge?  

Marwyn allowed a faceless assassin to be present during his long interview with Sam, even though he obviously means to keep the things said in this interview secret.  The faceless assassin was impersonating Pate at the time.  It is ridiculous so suppose that Marwyn would have permitted the half-witted Pate to be present at such a meeting.  So Marwyn obviously knows the faceless assassin is not Pate.  Marwyn ordered Sam to be put to bed, and it now appears that a faceless assassin is about to carry out those orders.  So yes, Marwyn is obviously in league with the faceless assassin who murdered Pate.

Mirri and Qyburn each practice blood magic and/or dark sorcery of the worst kind.  Both are former students and/or associates of Marwyn.  Qyburn is a depraved mad scientist, necromancer, sadistic vivisectionist. and frankensorcerer, who was rightly expelled from the citadel.  Qyburn considers his less-depraved colleagues at the citadel to be "sheep" with one notable exception, Marwyn.  Only Marwyn had any understanding or appreciation of Qyburn's ways of thinking.  Marwyn has been to Asshai, and studied under warlocks and shadowbinders.   A "warlock" is generally defined as a practitioner of evil magic, and a "shadowbinder" is evidently some sort of necromancer who binds the shadows of dead people.  Marwyn sacrifices to strange gods.  I guess, if you prefer not to take all these heavy hints, you can imagine that the only thing he sacrifices to these queer gods are pommegranites and melons.  Moreover, Marwyn and his cabal (a sand snake and a faceless assassin) intercepted Sam before he could report in to the Citadel, pumped him for information, and are now off to his ship, where are located Aemon's books, Aemon's kingsbood corpse, and Mance's kingsblood baby.  So yes, Marwyn is not a nice guy, and is interested in blood magic and/or other kinds of dark sorcery.

Claims here that have no textual evidence:

• Marwyn thinks Pate is Pate. The reader only knows Pate isn't Pate because of the prologue.  There is no indication that Marwyn has knowledge otherwise and it is not "obvious."
• It isn't "ridiculous" that Marwyn would have Pate around for the conversation. Of Marwyn, "People said that he kept company with whores and hedge wizards, talked with hairy Ibbenese and pitch-black Summer Islanders in their own tongues, and sacrificed to queer gods at the little sailors' temples down by the wharves. Men spoke of seeing him down in the undercity, in rat pits and black brothels, consorting with mummers, singers, sellswords, even beggars." This indicates that he would be willing to spend company with a smallfolk boy like Pate. Further, Pate isn't necessarily half-witted. Actual Pate knew folk knowledge from the smallfolk, which can be important, and is the type of company that Marwyn would keep.
• Further, if they were "in league," then the Faceless Man would not have needed to hire Pate to steal Walgrave's key and sneak into the Citadel. Every Archmaester has a key, which means Marwyn would as well. There's no need to steal Walgrave's if they can just use Marwyn's for their supposedly-mutual plots.
• Actually, it isn't Qyburn who considered the rest to be sheep. It's Marwyn who he is quoting. From AFFC, Cersei II: "The archmaesters are all craven at heart. The grey sheep, Marwyn calls them." But just because Marwyn thinks they're craven, again, does not immediately apply that he was partaking in the same dark arts as Qyburn.
• Your comment about queer gods is taken out of context. It's stated in Pate's Prologue that "People said that [Marwyn] kept company with whores and hedge wizards, talked with hairy Ibbenese and pitch-black Summer Islanders in their own tongues, and sacrificed to queer gods at the little sailors' temples down by the wharves." While rumors can frequently be true, there are also rumors spread throughout FeastDance that we know are not, from Daenerys bathing in the blood of children to Viserys Plumm's six-foot penis. You can only put so much credence in rumors. Oldtown is the former center of the Faith of the Seven, home to the Starry Sept. It's beyond unlikely that they would allow human sacrifice to go on under their noses. In Braavos, they keep temples to all the gods and we learn about the gods beyond the old and new. But there's no indication that whatever gods Marwyn is worshipping accept human sacrifice, just because they're considered "queer" to Pate and the other "People" of the Seven's greatest city.
• Everytime warlocks are referred to in ASOIAF, it's the warlocks of Qarth. It's not indicated that their magic is evil, just different from what is expected. And it seldom works, like when they were used to try and make Sam less a craven at Horn Hill. There's no indication that the shadows bound by Melisandre have anything to do with dead people or necromancy. In fact, the shadow assassins are implied by Melisandre to be born of sexual intercourse, not necromancy.
• All that said, yes, Marwyn is interested in dark magic, but there is little to no textual support for you to make these claims as if they are fact as @Springwatch has said.

[Mister Smikes]

2 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

Claims here that have no textual evidence:

• Marwyn thinks Pate is Pate. The reader only knows Pate isn't Pate because of the prologue.  There is no indication that Marwyn has knowledge otherwise and it is not "obvious."
• It isn't "ridiculous" that Marwyn would have Pate around for the conversation. Of Marwyn, "People said that he kept company with whores and hedge wizards, talked with hairy Ibbenese and pitch-black Summer Islanders in their own tongues, and sacrificed to queer gods at the little sailors' temples down by the wharves. Men spoke of seeing him down in the undercity, in rat pits and black brothels, consorting with mummers, singers, sellswords, even beggars." This indicates that he would be willing to spend company with a smallfolk boy like Pate. Further, Pate isn't necessarily half-witted. Actual Pate knew folk knowledge from the smallfolk, which can be important, and is the type of company that Marwyn would keep.

This response attacks a straw man.  The problem is not that Marwyn associates with Pate, talks to Pate, or even had Pate present in the room when Sam first entered.  The problem is that he did not send Pate out of the room before having a conversation about matters Marwyn regards as secret and confidential.  He let Pate stay there and listen to the whole thing, while Sam spilled his guts on the floor and told Marwyn absolutely everything he knew (except that he was a coward).  This must have taken a while, but it never occurred to Marwyn to send Pate out of the room.

Quote

• Further, if they were "in league," then the Faceless Man would not have needed to hire Pate to steal Walgrave's key and sneak into the Citadel. Every Archmaester has a key, which means Marwyn would as well. There's no need to steal Walgrave's if they can just use Marwyn's for their supposedly-mutual plots.

I'm not sure why he would need to do that anyway, since it is obvious the Alchemist's real goal was to kill Pate and to become Pate.  In any event, the issue is not whether Marwyn and the Alchemist were in league at that time, but whether they are in league now.  They are evidently in league now, else Marywn would have sent Pate out of the room and lot allowed Fake Pate to listen to matters he considers secret.

Quote

• Actually, it isn't Qyburn who considered the rest to be sheep. It's Marwyn who he is quoting. From AFFC, Cersei II: "The archmaesters are all craven at heart. The grey sheep, Marwyn calls them." But just because Marwyn thinks they're craven, again, does not immediately apply that he was partaking in the same dark arts as Qyburn.

Obviously, they both consider the rest to be sheep, since Qyburn quotes Marwyn with approval, and shares his attitude.  My point being, of course, that a recommendation for the likes of Qyburn is not a good sign.  We've seen enough of Qyburn's methods and morals to guess that he was expelled from the Citadel for excellent reasons, and it is  not a good sign either that Qyburn considers Marwyn more understanding of his ways of thinking.

Quote

• Your comment about queer gods is taken out of context. It's stated in Pate's Prologue that "People said that [Marwyn] kept company with whores and hedge wizards, talked with hairy Ibbenese and pitch-black Summer Islanders in their own tongues, and sacrificed to queer gods at the little sailors' temples down by the wharves." While rumors can frequently be true, there are also rumors spread throughout FeastDance that we know are not, from Daenerys bathing in the blood of children to Viserys Plumm's six-foot penis. You can only put so much credence in rumors.

I'm just citing the textual evidence.  Your response is that the textual evidence might possibly be wrong.  Ok.  Fair enough.  But that goes both ways.  Take, for instance, Marwyn's claim that he is off to see Dany for the purposes of helping Dany.  Everyone in this thread seems to assume that Marwyn is telling the truth, whereas I have tried to point out the possibility (likely in my view) that he is lying.  

Nonetheless, I would never tell anyone in this thread that their theory that Marwyn is off to visit Dany has no textual evidence.  Obviously there is textual evidence, in the form of Marwyn's own statements.  

Quote

• Oldtown is the former center of the Faith of the Seven, home to the Starry Sept. It's beyond unlikely that they would allow human sacrifice to go on under their noses. In Braavos, they keep temples to all the gods and we learn about the gods beyond the old and new.

Blood magic as practiced by Mirri did not, in any direct obvious or overt way, involve human sacrifice.  Human sacrifice was apparently one of the effects, but Mirri's actual ritual seemed to only make direct use of animal sacrifice.

Quote

• But there's no indication that whatever gods Marwyn is worshipping accept human sacrifice, just because they're considered "queer" to Pate and the other "People" of the Seven's greatest city.

Okay.  There's "no indication" if we ignore the indications, such as Marwyn's connection to Mirri and Qyburn.

Quote

• Everytime warlocks are referred to in ASOIAF, it's the warlocks of Qarth.

Not true.  There are also warlocks in Asshai.   Warlocks are from Qarth when the context indicates that they are from Qarth.

Quote

• It's not indicated that their magic is evil, just different from what is expected.

They seem pretty evil to me.  But you could say that about anything, and probably would.  If I were, for instance, to read you "The Shadow over Innsmouth" by H.P. Lovecraft, you would probably say "There is no indication that the Deep Ones are evil, just different from what we expected."  Or if I were to read you his "Pickman's Model", you would say "There is no indication the ghouls are evil, just different from what we expected." 

And if I were to read you "Herbert West: Reanimator", you could say "There is no indication Herbert West was evil, just different from what we expected.".  Herbert West, BTW, is a pretty close model for the likes of Qyburn and (probably) Marwyn, a deranged mad scientist scoffing at the narrow-minded limitations, and ethical concerns, of his more-conventional colleagues.  Such mad scientists are almost a trope in many an old weird tale, and their scoffing at the limitations of colleagues is another common pattern.  The only question is whether GRRM is old-school enough that all the traditional danger-signs of the evil mad scientist and mad sorcerer will lead to the same conclusion, or if he intends to be hyper-modern and "subvert expectations" or something, and have Marwyn turn out to be an upstanding guy.

Quote

• And it seldom works, like when they were used to try and make Sam less a craven at Horn Hill.

Oh, well, if an upstanding guy like Randyll Tarly associates with warlocks, they must be okay.   And if their methods cause more harm than good, well, that's another point in their favor.  LOL.   

In all seriousness, the power of the Qartheen warlocks is evidently waxes and wanes over time.  But the effectiveness of their methods has nothing to  do with whether they are good or evil.

Quote

• All that said, yes, Marwyn is interested in dark magic, but there is little to no textual support for you to make these claims as if they are fact as @Springwatch has said.

If there is no textual evidence, then why did you just concede the point? 

Dunno what you mean by your "... as if they are fact ..." qualification, but, as I indicated above, every piece of textual evidence can be questioned as to reliability, and Marwyn himself need not be necessarily taken at his word, when he has an arguable motive to lie.  But, again, I would never tell others that there is "no textual evidence" that Marwyn is going to Dany, because obviously there is textual evidence.

[Springwatch]

4 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Which do you challenge?  

Marwyn allowed a faceless assassin to be present during his long interview with Sam, even though he obviously means to keep the things said in this interview secret.  The faceless assassin was impersonating Pate at the time.  It is ridiculous so suppose that Marwyn would have permitted the half-witted Pate to be present at such a meeting.  So Marwyn obviously knows the faceless assassin is not Pate.  Marwyn ordered Sam to be put to bed, and it now appears that a faceless assassin is about to carry out those orders.  So yes, Marwyn is obviously in league with the faceless assassin who murdered Pate.

Mirri and Qyburn each practice blood magic and/or dark sorcery of the worst kind.  Both are former students and/or associates of Marwyn.  Qyburn is a depraved mad scientist, necromancer, sadistic vivisectionist. and frankensorcerer, who was rightly expelled from the citadel.  Qyburn considers his less-depraved colleagues at the citadel to be "sheep" with one notable exception, Marwyn.  Only Marwyn had any understanding or appreciation of Qyburn's ways of thinking.  Marwyn has been to Asshai, and studied under warlocks and shadowbinders.   A "warlock" is generally defined as a practitioner of evil magic, and a "shadowbinder" is evidently some sort of necromancer who binds the shadows of dead people.  Marwyn sacrifices to strange gods.  I guess, if you prefer not to take all these heavy hints, you can imagine that the only thing he sacrifices to these queer gods are pommegranites and melons. 

The many faced god is queer enough, and he takes sacrifices of all kinds.

Deep down I'd rather Marwyn turned out to be evil than a saviour mentor figure for Dany, but this interpretation is not the only one, clever though it is -  @StarksInTheNorth's version is more probable, I feel.

The thing is, studying is not necessarily practising. MIrri learned blood magic, but chose instead to be a healer and priestess to the Great Shepherd, which all sounds good. Similarly, Marwyn has to study everything, because he has the Valyrian Steel mask and that's his department. Qyburn probably didn't learn much necromancy at the citadel because he would be instantly thrown out, if not put to death. I think what all three wanted to study was dissection of corpses to learn surgery, which it sounds like the Citadel doesn't like either.

4 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Moreover, Marwyn and his cabal (a sand snake and a faceless assassin) intercepted Sam before he could report in to the Citadel, pumped him for information, and are now off to his ship, where are located Aemon's books, Aemon's kingsbood corpse, and Mance's kingsblood baby. 

Interesting thought...

[Mister Smikes]

11 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

The many faced god is queer enough, and he takes sacrifices of all kinds.

Not sure what your point is here.  The many-faced god is not merely a god of death (which sounds sinister enough) but also a god of murder and assassination, if we can judge him by his worshippers.  What?  Is that not evil, now?

11 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Deep down I'd rather Marwyn turned out to be evil than a saviour mentor figure for Dany, but this interpretation is not the only one, clever though it is -  @StarksInTheNorth's version is more probable, I feel.

Well we are all free to disagree with each other.  I'm just presenting an alternate perspective to the one everyone seems to be assuming.   But again, I would not claim that @StarksInTheNorth's theory is not supported by textual evidence.   Nor do I think that you or he should deny that I have presented textual evidence as well.

11 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

The thing is, studying is not necessarily practising. MIrri learned blood magic, but chose instead to be a healer and priestess to the Great Shepherd, which all sounds good.

I'll leave it to the Seven Gods to pass judgment on her soul.  But she died practicing blood magic for purposes of revenge, by her own admission.

As for Marwyn, I guess you are free to speculate that he is a nice guy who studies blood magic for purely benevolent purposes.  I'd say the indications are otherwise.  So make your bets, in case Winds of Winter is every released.

  

[Springwatch]

52 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Not sure what your point is here.  The many-faced god is not merely a god of death (which sounds sinister enough) but also a god of murder and assassination, if we can judge him by his worshippers.  What?  Is that not evil, now?I

The point being that even sinister gods don't always demand a blood sacrifice. (I'm not going to start on whether the FM religion is evil, because that depends on the author - I mean, the gods may be sort of real, and death is a very essential part of life.)

52 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Well we are all free to disagree with each other.  I'm just presenting an alternate perspective to the one everyone seems to be assuming.   But again, I would not claim that @StarksInTheNorth's theory is not supported by textual evidence.   Nor do I think that you or he should deny that I have presented textual evidence as well.

I think we're all fine with that.

52 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

I'll leave it to the Seven Gods to pass judgment on her soul.  But she died practicing blood magic for purposes of revenge, by her own admission.

She'll have to square it with the Great Shepherd, but her stated justification is that the world has been saved from the Dothraki Stallion.

52 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

As for Marwyn, I guess you are free to speculate that he is a nice guy who studies blood magic for purely benevolent purposes.  I'd say the indications are otherwise.  So make your bets, in case Winds of Winter is every released.

I am interested in an evil Marwyn, just not really seeing it yet. I'm certain he has studied both blood magic and necromancy (he is professor of magic after all) - but that is scholarship, not necessarily practical. He's almost certainly studied dragonlore as well, and there's no practical for that.