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Falcon2909

Why is Marwyn making the long journey to meet Dany?

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2 hours ago, Falcon2909 said:

what sort of advice does marwyn for her?

Well ... he could explain to her how to use blood magic to wake stone dragons.  But she already has 3 dragons.  That's part of what makes me suspect he's not really going to Dany.

The Second Dance of the Dragons is not going to be much like the First Dance of the Dragons, if their are not dragons on more than one side.

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On 7/6/2021 at 4:46 AM, Falcon2909 said:

Marwyn is currently travelling by ship to meet Dany. But why make the journey? 

To serve and to protect the ruler of the seven kingdoms.  I don't mean Tommen, Stannis, or another pretender.  Daenerys is the heir of Aerys Targaryen, the last monarch to sit on the iron throne.  Marwyn will be her Maester. 

Since he has managed to light a glass candle he should be able to use it to talk to Dany like Quaithe does. He doesn't need to make He he lengthy, risky voyage to meet her. He can advise her though his glass candle.

Marwyn is used to travel. He's not frightened of the journey.

 

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20 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Well ... he could explain to her how to use blood magic to wake stone dragons.  But she already has 3 dragons.  That's part of what makes me suspect he's not really going to Dany.

The Second Dance of the Dragons is not going to be much like the First Dance of the Dragons, if their are not dragons on more than one side.

Even 3 dragons on 1 side each seems a little anemic. 

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I mean, if cannibal is still alive on skagos or sheepstealer in the mountains of the vale... they could be the stone dragons, but I don't think it will be dany to wake them.

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19 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Even 3 dragons on 1 side each seems a little anemic. 

By contrast, the 1st Dance of the Dragons involved at least 14 dragons, unless I missed someone.  And that does not even count Grey Ghost or 3 dragons whose only involvement was to be slain in the storming of the dragonpit.

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18 hours ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

I mean, if cannibal is still alive on skagos or sheepstealer in the mountains of the vale... they could be the stone dragons, but I don't think it will be dany to wake them.

Potential dragons (other than Dany's 3).:

- The mysterious stone dragons of Dragonstone that are too realistic to be real statues; possibly the same as ....:

- The stone beast breathing shadow fire, from I forget what prophesy or vision; 

- Sheepstealer (and/or any potential hatchling, if Sheepstealer was pregnant when she disappeared; likely connected to

 - The rumored dragon at the Mountains of the Moon.

- Cannibal (and/or any potential hatchling), who may or may not be one and the same as ....

- The Skagos Dragon (some fans theorize that the prophesy of the stone dragon really refers to a Skagosi dragon, since Skagos means "stone"; possibly the same as:

- The (theorized) dragon who devoured the inhabitants of Skane)

- The (theorized) dragon who caused the Hardhome disaster;

- Silverwing (and/or any potential hatchlings, and specifically the clutch of dragon eggs rumored to be left at the Wall).

- The dragon seen by Summer leaving Winterfell in ASOS; possibly the same as:

- The (theorized) dragon of the crypts of Winterfell who frightened Hodor; possibly the same as:

- The rumored dragon that heats the hot springs of Winterfell according to smallfolk

- The (theorized) Sea Dragon that will hatch from the egg that Euron threw into the sea.

 

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1 hour ago, Mister Smikes said:

Potential dragons (other than Dany's 3).:

- The mysterious stone dragons of Dragonstone that are too realistic to be real statues; possibly the same as ....:

- The stone beast breathing shadow fire, from I forget what prophesy or vision; 

- Sheepstealer (and/or any potential hatchling, if Sheepstealer was pregnant when she disappeared; likely connected to

 - The rumored dragon at the Mountains of the Moon.

- Cannibal (and/or any potential hatchling), who may or may not be one and the same as ....

- The Skagos Dragon (some fans theorize that the prophesy of the stone dragon really refers to a Skagosi dragon, since Skagos means "stone"; possibly the same as:

- The (theorized) dragon who devoured the inhabitants of Skane)

- The (theorized) dragon who caused the Hardhome disaster;

- Silverwing (and/or any potential hatchlings, and specifically the clutch of dragon eggs rumored to be left at the Wall).

- The dragon seen by Summer leaving Winterfell in ASOS; possibly the same as:

- The (theorized) dragon of the crypts of Winterfell who frightened Hodor; possibly the same as:

- The rumored dragon that heats the hot springs of Winterfell according to smallfolk

- The (theorized) Sea Dragon that will hatch from the egg that Euron threw into the sea.

 

How many of these are you confident in?  You have 13 entries, do you think we'll get 3 dragons from this list? I think at this point someone's going to have to crack the moon open or something to find more, but I may discount all of these a little too quickly.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Potential dragons (other than Dany's 3).:

- The mysterious stone dragons of Dragonstone that are too realistic to be real statues; possibly the same as ....:

- The stone beast breathing shadow fire, from I forget what prophesy or vision; 

- Sheepstealer (and/or any potential hatchling, if Sheepstealer was pregnant when she disappeared; likely connected to

 - The rumored dragon at the Mountains of the Moon.

- Cannibal (and/or any potential hatchling), who may or may not be one and the same as ....

- The Skagos Dragon (some fans theorize that the prophesy of the stone dragon really refers to a Skagosi dragon, since Skagos means "stone"; possibly the same as:

- The (theorized) dragon who devoured the inhabitants of Skane)

- The (theorized) dragon who caused the Hardhome disaster;

- Silverwing (and/or any potential hatchlings, and specifically the clutch of dragon eggs rumored to be left at the Wall).

- The dragon seen by Summer leaving Winterfell in ASOS; possibly the same as:

- The (theorized) dragon of the crypts of Winterfell who frightened Hodor; possibly the same as:

- The rumored dragon that heats the hot springs of Winterfell according to smallfolk

- The (theorized) Sea Dragon that will hatch from the egg that Euron threw into the sea.

 

this is such a handy list.

okay so im pretty sure the dragon on skagos is Cannibal (an island known for cannibalism/ get it), and I think sheepsteeler is the dragon on the mountains of the moon, located near the burned men, because that is where it and nettles were last seen. Silverwing was last seen at red lake in the vale but has not been mentioned since but it was the dragon of the good queen, which is why sam wonders if it left an egg at winterfell. so that's at least 3-4 in the north, far north, and vale.

the stone dragons are a bit trickier, because they could be a reference to concrete which was known by the Romans but as a tech was lost for hundreds of years after the fall, or they could be dragons effected by greyscale, or like dragon eggs, they may turn to stone if there is no magic to keep them awake. so im less sure about those ones. 

and a naga would change everything

Edited by Targaryeninkingslanding

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On 7/31/2021 at 6:34 PM, KingintheNorth4 said:

Marwyn probably doesn't know how to speak through it or wasn't able to properly master it during his travels out east.

He wants to talk directly instead of sending crude visions and dreams. Glass candles won’t do.  He needs to be where he can protect his Queen and help answer questions.  He can advise Daenerys in the manner that Spock advises Kirk. 

On 8/21/2021 at 12:11 PM, Son of Man said:

Archmaester Marwyn is George Martin written in.  He will be the wise adviser to Daenerys.  He's Martin and Merlin combined to serve and advise the heroine who resurrected dragons from stone eggs.  He has to be there inperson. 
 

 

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On 8/27/2021 at 11:21 AM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

How many of these are you confident in?  You have 13 entries, do you think we'll get 3 dragons from this list? I think at this point someone's going to have to crack the moon open or something to find more, but I may discount all of these a little too quickly.

Well, it is hard to be confident on anything when one is not sure the next book will ever be released.

But I do believe that GRRM, in his mind, was planning a second dance of the dragons somewhat on the scale of the first, which involved at least 14 dragons.  I think this might explain why he has planted so many seeds.

But now that he has already published a book-length account of the first dance of the dragons, maybe he has changed and modified his ambitions for the second.  Maybe some of these threads or clues will be dropped.

But I'm fairly confident, at least in terms of GRRM's original intent, that what Summer saw outside Winterfell was a live dragon.

I can think of no point to this expedition to Skagos subplot, except that there are one or more dragons there.  But feel free to suggest alternatives.

And if kings blood can awake stone dragons, we have a huge number of king's blood specimens running around: Edric Storm, Shireen, Monster, Aemon's Pickled Corpse, Asha (subject of a chapter mysteriously called "the Sacrifice"), Robb's (theorized) unborn baby. Gendry, Mya Stone, Aeron and Falia Flowers unborn child (both currently being used in a mysterious blood magic ritual by Euron),   And more and more.  If 3 victims can awake 3 stone dragons, we've got plenty specimens to spare.

 

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On 7/6/2021 at 4:46 AM, Falcon2909 said:

Marwyn is currently travelling by ship to meet Dany. But why make the journey? 

Since he has managed to light a glass candle he should be able to use it to talk to Dany like Quaithe does. He doesn't need to make the lengthy, risky voyage to meet her. He can advise her though his glass candle.

  • He had no way to know if Dany had one in her possession.  He doesn't want to send a one way message.  He wants a conversation. 
  • Dany is the Prince(ss) promised to come into House Targaryen.  Many know this person by another name, Azor Ahai. 
  • He wants to be her maester.
  • Prophecy is easily misinterpreted.  Rhaegar and Egg badly messed up because they read it wrong.  Dany is much smarter and has so far handled prophecy wisely.  Marwyn wants to be at her side to help with the reading and interpretation of prophecies.
  • He knows the far east and can help Dany with the people of the bay. 

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On 8/1/2021 at 5:49 AM, Only 89 selfies today said:

Daenerys is the princess who was promised.  Marwyn would have realized from what he heard.  He has more than vague prophecies to work with because of the dragons.  She is the real deal. 

The rebirth, the killing of Khal Drogo, the dragons, etc.  All are proof of who she is. 

On 8/20/2021 at 8:34 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Dany is a big deal.  Marwyn can serve her better by going to her. 

It's better to serve Her Grace in person. 

The archmaester is not an online tech support dude.  He wants to be at her side and be part of her court. 

On 8/25/2021 at 5:48 PM, Falcon2909 said:

what sort of advice does marwyn for her?

Watch out for the maesters.  Point out the evil maesters among the order.

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55 minutes ago, Texas Hold Em said:

Watch out for the maesters.  Point out the evil maesters among the order.

Marwyn is himself a maester; not only a maester but archmaester. Dany would find that suspicious unless marwyn gives her some evidence that maesters cannot be trusted

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1 hour ago, Texas Hold Em said:
  • He had no way to know if Dany had one in her possession.  He doesn't want to send a one way message.  He wants a conversation. 
  • Dany is the Prince(ss) promised to come into House Targaryen.  Many know this person by another name, Azor Ahai. 
  • He wants to be her maester.
  • Prophecy is easily misinterpreted.  Rhaegar and Egg badly messed up because they read it wrong.  Dany is much smarter and has so far handled prophecy wisely.  Marwyn wants to be at her side to help with the reading and interpretation of prophecies.
  • He knows the far east and can help Dany with the people of the bay. 

1) he can conversate with her through the glass candle like quaithe does when danys bathing in the pyramid

3) why?

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Posted (edited)

 

Quote

"My mother was godswife before me, and taught me all the songs and spells most pleasing to the Great Shepherd, and how to make the sacred smokes and ointments from leaf and root and berry. When I was younger and more fair, I went in caravan to Asshai by the Shadow, to learn from their mages. Ships from many lands come to Asshai, so I lingered long to study the healing ways of distant peoples. A moonsinger of the Jogos Nhai gifted me with her birthing songs, a woman of your own riding people taught me the magics of grass and corn and horse, and a maester from the Sunset Lands opened a body for me and showed me all the secrets that hide beneath the skin."

Ser Jorah Mormont spoke up. "A maester?"

"Marwyn, he named himself," the woman replied in the Common Tongue. "From the sea. Beyond the sea. The Seven Lands, he said. Sunset Lands. Where men are iron and dragons rule. He taught me this speech."

"A maester in Asshai," Ser Jorah mused. "Tell me, Godswife, what did this Marwyn wear about his neck?"

"A chain so tight it was like to choke him, Iron Lord, with links of many metals." (AGoT, Daenerys VII)

Mirri Maz Duur and Marwyn are linked - she studied with him in Asshai to learn about the human body. 

Burning Mirri was part of the literal dragon-hatching recipe or ritual that Dany intuitively assembled and implemented in Khal Drogo's funeral pyre. 

I suspect Marwyn will be part of a new symbolic "hatching" recipe or ritual, allowing Dany (as the symbolic dragon) to break the shell of Essos and fly back to Westeros. 

We saw a second hatching when Quentyn liberated the two dragons that had been chained in the pit beneath the great pyramid. Quentyn (or someone from his group of companions) was burned in the process of liberating Rhaegal and Viserion. 

Quote

The Dornish prince was three days dying.

He took his last shuddering breath in the bleak black dawn, as cold rain hissed from a dark sky to turn the brick streets of the old city into rivers. The rain had drowned the worst of the fires, but wisps of smoke still rose from the smoldering ruin that had been the pyramid of Hazkar, and the great black pyramid of Yherizan where Rhaegal had made his lair hulked in the gloom like a fat woman bedecked with glowing orange jewels. (ADwD, The Queen's Hand)

This description of the lair of the dragon Rhaegal could represent Mirri Maaz Duur with hot coals as her jewels - representative of her death in the funeral pyre fire. It would not surprise me if Marwyn became the rider of Rhaegal. 

P.S. It's also interesting that Mirri Maaz Duur says that Marwyn taught her the "secrets that hide beneath the skin" of bodies. This seems like a Bolton allusion and could give us a hint about the Bolton flaying symbolism - is it intended to reveal secrets?

Edited by Seams

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On 8/28/2021 at 1:45 PM, Mister Smikes said:

And if kings blood can awake stone dragons, we have a huge number of king's blood specimens running around: Edric Storm, Shireen, Monster, Aemon's Pickled Corpse, Asha (subject of a chapter mysteriously called "the Sacrifice"), Robb's (theorized) unborn baby. Gendry, Mya Stone, Aeron and Falia Flowers unborn child (both currently being used in a mysterious blood magic ritual by Euron),   And more and more.  If 3 victims can awake 3 stone dragons, we've got plenty specimens to spare.

Hey, Mr Martin makes a point of calling every ironborn captain a king on his own ship on a couple of occasions throughout the series. I wonder if these kings and their offspring have the power to wake stone dragons too.

Either way, I guess there's room for a few more dragons than we have already.

 

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4 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Hey, Mr Martin makes a point of calling every ironborn captain a king on his own ship on a couple of occasions throughout the series. I wonder if these kings and their offspring have the power to wake stone dragons too.

Either way, I guess there's room for a few more dragons than we have already.

Yes, the qualifications for "king's blood" sure is fuzzy.  Targ or Valyrian heritage is apparently not required.

What 3 kingsblood specimens woke Dany's three dragons from Stone?  Is it Mirri, Drogo and Rhaego?  Or Mirri, Drogo, and Viserys?  Or is it (as the names of the 3 dragons imply), Drogo, Rhaego, and Viserys?  Or is the 3 for 3 idea a false assumption?

Mirri's mother was a "godswife", which could, for all I know, imply she was the wife of a sort of deified king.  The qualifications of the others are more obvious.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mister Smikes said:

Yes, the qualifications for "king's blood" sure is fuzzy.  Targ or Valyrian heritage is apparently not required.

What 3 kingsblood specimens woke Dany's three dragons from Stone?  Is it Mirri, Drogo and Rhaego?  Or Mirri, Drogo, and Viserys?  Or is it (as the names of the 3 dragons imply), Drogo, Rhaego, and Viserys?  Or is the 3 for 3 idea a false assumption?

Mirri's mother was a "godswife", which could, for all I know, imply she was the wife of a sort of deified king.  The qualifications of the others are more obvious.

Your mileage may vary...

I think the whole king's blood thing is a sham. 

At what point does a person's blood become infused with the kingness of it? Robb never saw his seat as King, does he have King's blood - is his blood more potent in magical applications? What about the hypothesized child Jeyne's carrying?  Does it have king's blood - does Jeyne get it from sharing blood with the fetus?

Do the remaining descendants of Aerys II still have king's blood or did his overthrow undo whatever magical effect took place when Aegon I made himself King?

Do the Lannisters', Arryns' and Starks' erythrocytes remember being kings before the Conquest?

I think that the red priests talk about the power of king's blood because the people they're talking to (with specific exceptions) aren't kings or their relations and aren't threatened by the notion that they might be more useful as a sacrifice than as a living breathing person, but the blood doesn't know what the body it's draining out of did for a day job. Mel uses it for the opposite reason when she's dealing with Stannis because she tries to manipulate him into burning people that are close to him, but I think it's most valuable to the priests as a means of coercion and mollification.

It would be nice to do some empirical studies with a group of kings, a group of peasants and a pile of sticks. Won't happen, but if we could pull it off I suspect that you'd get the same amount of good winds (the only tangible effect to a burning that we've seen and of course it could be coincidental) from candidates from each group.

What this all means for kings blood waking stone dragons I couldn't say. Either a lot more people could do it - or that wasn't something that was ever supposed to be taken quite as literally as it's been taken. Or of course I could be completely off and there is some sort of cosmic ledger that is marked when a person is acclaimed king (queens too?), but I just can't see it in what we've been given so far.

Edited by Aejohn the Conqueroo
meh

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3 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Your mileage may vary...

I think the whole king's blood thing is a sham. 

Well sure.   Of course.   Don't perform human sacrifice before demon gods.  Don't feed the plants!

But just because nothing good will happen, does not mean that nothing at all will happen:

DON'T FEED THE PLANTS FINALE- LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS - YouTube

3 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

At what point does a person's blood become infused with the kingness of it? Robb never saw his seat as King, does he have King's blood - is his blood more potent in magical applications? What about the hypothesized child Jeyne's carrying?  Does it have king's blood

The hints we have suggest that the occultists believe it applies, at the very least, to children sired by a king during his kingship.  Anything beyond that is guessing.  But I'm guessing that children sired before kingship, and even brother's, also count (to the occultists, anyhow).  I don't think the Many-Faced God of Death cares much, so long as he tricks as many humans as possible into slaughtering each other.  And when power-hungry aristocrats murder each other for power and revenge, naturally lots of smallfolk die as well.

3 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

- does Jeyne get it from sharing blood with the fetus?

Doesn't matter.  I doubt 9 months have happened since the Red Wedding, so mother and (hypothetical) child are probably going to have to die together, much as Euron seems to be preparing to do with Falia Flowers.

3 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Do the remaining descendants of Aerys II still have king's blood or did his overthrow undo whatever magical effect took place when Aegon I made himself King?

Mel does not think Robert's overthrow makes a difference to Edric Storm

3 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

It would be nice to do some empirical studies with a group of kings, a group of peasants and a pile of sticks.

Nah.  Don't feed the plants.

 

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