Watch Watched Watching: The Rambunctious Cinema of Terrence Malick

[polishgenius]

I'm just gonna take this opportunity to bring up JME's twitter review of Jurassic World. Much better than the film itself.

[RhaenysBee]

7 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I'm just gonna take this opportunity to bring up JME's twitter review of Jurassic World. Much better than the film itself.

 my morning’s better already. 

[Veltigar]

Went to see Fast 9 yesterday. Interesting experiment as I haven't seen the 4th, 6th, 7th or 8th film in the series. I'm not entirely sure, but I guess that it probably made it more enjoyable to me. I still knew all the characters pretty much and not having witnessed their earlier insanity probably made the outrageous plot devices feel like less of an issue.

I was expecting to dislike it, but  not being able to go to the cinema for so long has made me less critical. Don't get me wrong, this was mediocre all the way through, but it really straddled the line between mediocre, bad and so bad that it's good again. Most of the time it stayed in the bad or mediocre lane, but I'd really like to see how these films would look like if any of the cast would get it in their head to direct it. Justin Lin is far from my favorite director but he usually makes the best out of his block busters. I can only imagine how insane these films would be if Vin Diesel himself were to direct them.

I could see him use like one camera angle to film the entire thing. After all, he's only using one facial expression as an actor so why would he be different as a director? I still can't fathom that he is the anchor point of the most successful "original" franchise out there. He looks like he's on benzos throughout the film.

The story itself is insane and the balls on the people writing it must be gigantic. They really don't give a shit and I feel like they were just flipping me off the entire time. At one point near the end of the film, one of the characters says that they should just trust "the laws of physics" even though all of them have been breaking every single law of physics over the course of the runtime of the film  

I really just imagine the screenwriter thinking to himself

Quote

What are they going to do? Not pay us next time when we secret F10 your seat belts? I always wanted to pen the next Danish Girl of King's Speech now I'm stuck here so the audience can suffer as well.

8 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I'm just gonna take this opportunity to bring up JME's twitter review of Jurassic World. Much better than the film itself.

This one floored me:

Quote

How can a cinema charge man for the glasses like man wants them?

 

12 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think Dark Knight deserves to be in, but it can go in the latter half. And like with considering special effects and impact on film making, I think the Dark Knight, even more than the first Spiderman, proved that you could make comic book movies on a grand scale and now they dominate the industry.

I'd be curious to see just how much overlap there would be when picking older films and how they're ranked compared to more modern choices.

I know it's later than the first Batman, but if that is the main reason to include the film on the list than I think the first Iron Man fits the bill better (despite being a worse film). It isthe MCU superhero that has gained dominance, not any of the other strains.

14 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I suspect there is the ‘Goonies effect’ with JP for some people, where there is connection to a sense of nostalgia that bumps up just how good they think the movie is. 

Definitely!

 

 

 

[Heartofice]

Yeah Dark Knight isn’t really the reason comic book movies dominate the industry. I think all the wrong lessons were taken from that movie. Rather than thinking ‘how can we create a really great genre movie that just so happens to feature people in silly costumes’ the main reaction was ‘oh people want dark and gritty and serious.. let’s do that’

Well from DC anyway. 

[polishgenius]

 

The more time goes on, the more I think TDK is an overall just-above-average movie lifted by an absolutely incredible villain. Which isn't to say just the performance - most of the writing, directing, editing around the Joker is great too, it's not All-Ledger-No-Nolan - but none of what's in it that isn't Joker stuff has aged very well for me, and even with him, the ship scene was unnecessary. 

Which isn't to say that I don't like it coz I do but it used to be difficult to imagine it not being top 2 superhero film and now I'm not sure it separates from the best couple MCU films (Winter Soldier and Ragnarok) and is definitely below what is a fairly clear top 4 of Kick-Ass, Incredibles, Logan and obviously Spider-Verse. 

(I know not that many people would agree with Kick-Ass and in some ways that's aged poorly too. But still)


I think some of it is that the gritty-grounded approach to superheroes, which was like HOI says fairly unique on-screen at the time, has since been duplicated quite well, not by DC but by Marvel Netflix and Logan. And frankly Nolan's lack of facility with hand-to-hand action is really obvious once you've seen Daredevil. 

[Heartofice]

Yeah also on rewatch I’ve found DK to be a little patchy and uneven where I loved it first time round. It’s been a while but I recall the last third of the movie being a bit of a mess, two face really being a completely unnecessary part of the movie ( I get the duality of him and how he reflects Bruces choices but could have been saved for another movie) and really the movie ends on a flat note. 
 

It’s got some amazing moments though, that opening  is still used as an example for how to start a movie 

[Isis]

I recall watching TDK in a really hot sweaty cinema in Leicester Square (no air con lol even though it was 30 C+ outside). Two poor Australian women next to me had come to the cinema hoping it was cool inside, but it's London - you aren't guaranteed air con anywhere. Anyway, even though I thought it was a great film I thought it was too long (partly due to being stuck in a sweaty cinema). That fade to black at 2/3 through - I felt kind of let down that it came back after that point.

Yesterday I watched A Bigger Splash - Tilda Swinton is amazing (and looks amazing!!) in this. Even more so considering she has hardly any dialogue. Ralph Fiennes is equally good. That's really all there is to say about it. Two great performances from two great actors. The rest of it is inconsequential.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I know it's later than the first Batman, but if that is the main reason to include the film on the list than I think the first Iron Man fits the bill better (despite being a worse film). It isthe MCU superhero that has gained dominance, not any of the other strains.

Iron Man and TDK came out in the same summer, so I'm not sure that's correct. Yes it jump started the MCU, but didn't it take a handful of movies to really get its footing? Meanwhile TDK is considered one of the best, if not the best, comic book films ever made. Imo it's in a class of its own. 

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

Which isn't to say that I don't like it coz I do but it used to be difficult to imagine it not being top 2 superhero film and now I'm not sure it separates from the best couple MCU films (Winter Soldier and Ragnarok) and is definitely below what is a fairly clear top 4 of Kick-Ass, Incredibles, Logan and obviously Spider-Verse. 

Now that's a hot take. 

I recently watched Winter Soldier, and while it was entertaining, I don't get why people hold it up as highly as they do, but maybe my lack of interest in Capt plays a role in that. Ragnarok is insanely fun, but I don't think it ever achieved the cultural significance of TDK.

[Heartofice]

Winter Soldier for me is probably the best MCU movie of the bunch. It works firstly because I think Evans is a great Cap and his relationships with Falcon and Black Widow as well as with Bucky are what keep the movie together. There are a lot of different relationships between characters in the MCU but I think those are the strongest, outside of maybe Thor and Loki. 

Plus the action in the movie is top class. The Russo bros just make superhero fights feel like they are actually happening, they give weight to their punches and are generally really inventive. The lift scene in WS is a total classic of tight space violence, but from the very opening scene on the boat you notice that something is different about this movie, you really understand that characters have superhuman strength and it feels real.

 

[Veltigar]

50 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Iron Man and TDK came out in the same summer, so I'm not sure that's correct. Yes it jump started the MCU, but didn't it take a handful of movies to really get its footing? Meanwhile TDK is considered one of the best, if not the best, comic book films ever made. Imo it's in a class of its own. 

Not really if I recall correctly. Iron Man was incredibly successful at the box office for its budget and I think the critics were quite positive as well. Marvel has since been using that film as a template for pretty much all their pictures, with the exception of perhaps The Hulk solo film which was probably already too far in development while Iron Man came out. 

2 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

The more time goes on, the more I think TDK is an overall just-above-average movie lifted by an absolutely incredible villain.

Yeah, I agree here. Not sure about your other picks though. Logan is definitely a great film but I struggle with the others.

I think a lot of this also indicates how difficult it is to define the comic book genre. Does The Rocketeer count even though it's an oldie? Does Unbreakable count as it is a

Spoiler

superhero film (and one I would definitely place in the top three)

but based on an original story? 

[polishgenius]

42 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I recently watched Winter Soldier, and while it was entertaining, I don't get why people hold it up as highly as they do,

In this case, I'm more saying that TDK has slid in my estimation more than that I think Winter Soldier is that good. 


 

 

10 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Does Unbreakable count

For me the tricky thing with Unbreakable is less whether it's an original story- Incredibles is obviously a superhero film- and more that although it has a superhero in it, it's genre trappings are almost all more detective film stuff, bit of neo-noir. 
Also I didn't like it that much but that's a separate argument. 


 

 

11 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Not sure about your other picks though. Logan is definitely a great film but I struggle with the others.

I think there's far less argument about Spider-Verse than Logan tbh.  

[Kalbear]

Spider Verse definitely deserves that top billing. It is incredibly rewatchable, captures Spider Man better than anything that has been done before in terms of humor and grit, has an actually reasonable set of villains, manages to be nostalgic and new at the same time, has humor that absolutely works and is one of the most visually stunning pieces of work in the genre ever. 

I found Logan interesting but mostly because of Xavier and Logan being R-rated. The actual plot and villany is pretty stupid and the set of young mutant kids are very, very dumb. 

[Heartofice]

I can’t think of a single super hero movie that doesn’t have a crappy last third. Even the best ones, TDK , Winter Soldier and Spiderverse ( even spidey 2), especially Logan  have dull or anti climatic last sections. It might be a genre problem

[Maithanet]

51 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I can’t think of a single super hero movie that doesn’t have a crappy last third. Even the best ones, TDK , Winter Soldier and Spiderverse ( even spidey 2), especially Logan  have dull or anti climatic last sections. It might be a genre problem

You are right that a lot of them have this problem.  The best examples I can think of are Incredibles, Avengers: Infinity War, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990).

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

You are right that a lot of them have this problem.  The best examples I can think of are Incredibles, Avengers: Infinity War, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990).

Think even those movies ( can’t remember turtles at all) have issues with final third. Incredibles is still fighting a big bad.

IW only works because it’s not trying to wrap it all up. Which is maybe why something like Empire Strikes back works so well.

[Maithanet]

8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Think even those movies ( can’t remember turtles at all) have issues with final third. Incredibles is still fighting a big bad.

IW only works because it’s not trying to wrap it all up. Which is maybe why something like Empire Strikes back works so well.

I wouldn't say the problem is they're fighting the big bad, it's that they usually have already done so once in the movie on a smaller scale.  Now they're doing it again, but BIGGER, and that kinda sucks because it means more CGI or crappy effects, less of a grounded story and (almost always) less humor and enjoyable character moments that made the first hour so good. 

EDIT: That's also why IMO the ending of Incredibles works well - they still have some humor with Frozone even at the end, and the characters are still having interesting interactions (complaining about directions, discovering powers, etc). 

[Iskaral Pust]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who rates Spiderverse so highly (aside from the pig character, which was the only big mis-step).

TDK had a truly great antagonist and conflict (and a bloated final third), but it also lived within a really high quality trilogy that completely redeemed the previously campy Batman and established comic books as the new Westerns: the vehicles to tell universal (if simplistic) mythological tales.  Unfortunately DC’s main takeaway was that dark + gritty = success, and they labored pointlessly under that delusion until WW arrived, and then somehow reverted to campy again in WW84.  Nolan deserves a lot of credit for that trilogy, even if I’ll always prefer The Prestige and Memento.  In fact, I think The Prestige (which I realize was released a year after Batman Begins) was the origin from which he extrapolated a lot that was in the Batman trilogy.

Ironman was good movie but not a great one.  But it was a great template for a movie.  It was the box office hit that launched a thousand serviceable but repetitive clones.  The first Avengers film also deserves some credit for the first successful ensemble in this space.  Ragnorak was IMO the best Marvel by some distance (but does anyone else see slight echoes of Flash Gordon there?), followed by GotG.  Most of the others blurred together but were reasonably entertaining and ridiculous in almost equal measure. Marvel’s greatest weakness was their unexamined life — why does unearned physical power necessarily bestow moral authority?  The whole ethos of comic books is bizarrely almost monarchical considering they are marketed toward nebbish males.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

Not really if I recall correctly. Iron Man was incredibly successful at the box office for its budget and I think the critics were quite positive as well. Marvel has since been using that film as a template for pretty much all their pictures, with the exception of perhaps The Hulk solo film which was probably already too far in development while Iron Man came out. 

I thought there were some misses between Iron Man and Avengers, but after that pretty much everything has been a giant hit except for Iron Man 3.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

48 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

You are right that a lot of them have this problem.  The best examples I can think of are Incredibles, Avengers: Infinity War, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990).

Are the Ninja Turtles superheroes?

[polishgenius]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Are the Ninja Turtles superheroes?

Created by the same accident that gave Daredevil his powers. So definitely.