Harrenhal: Stronghold of the Faith

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

Bonifer Hasty of the Holy Hundred aka Baelor Butthole: Castellan of Harrenhal. A man who loved a queen he could never have and so became pious. This is the man who holds one of the greatest castles in the Riverlands. (albeit partially ruined)

Now given the truculent relationship between between Queen Regent Cersei Lannister and the Faith of Seven, it is not a wild claim to say that something is going to go down. One side will hurt the other and when that happens it may mean open war between the crown and the faith.

So what if the Swords and Stars of the Faith militant are driven from the city? If something happens to the sept of Baelor, where will they go? Why too Harrenhal of course. this castle that can barely support itself will get all the hands it needs, not to mention support from the common folk, and from this castle the faith will wage its war against the crown in the name of the faith of the Seven who are one.

But maybe the faith won't have the strength it had if they are forced from KingsLanding. who knows if even the high Septon will get out alive. In a war against the crown, the faith may be but a single faction. But if it is the faith against the crown, it think Bonifer will side with the faith.

well, the Targaryens were always careful in considering the faith. who's to say that Bonifer won't cooperate with fAegon. And Daenerys is the daughter of the queen that he loved. who knows what he may do for her.

[Seams]

Interesting topic. 

I wonder whether Lancel's story can provide some clues about the future of the Faith Militant and the Warrior's Sons? 

Like Ser Bonifer, he had an affair with a queen who was out of his league. Both men turned to religion after the disappointing outcome of their affairs.

The unique twist in Lancel's arc is that he was married to Amerei Frey, known as Gatehouse Ami, before dissolving the unconsummated union and dedicating his life to the faith. What kinds of things happen when ASOIAF characters screw up their Frey betrothals and marriages? Nothing good, I'm thinking.

It doesn't seem as if Ami cares much about the loss of her feckless husband: she has possession of House Darry and is already flirting with her cousin Strongboar, manipulating and persuading him to hunt down and kill The Hound. The important symbolism for Ami, though, is the "gatehouse" nickname: like Lord Walder Frey, she (symbolically) controls a portal that Tywin wanted to keep under Lannister control. As Cersei has now put herself in the position that Tywin held, the loss of this Frey "gatehouse" may be a handicap for team Lannister. It will be interesting to see whether it is also a handicap for team Faith, as embodied by the High Sparrow and/or the Warrior's Sons. 

Of course, Cersei's seduction of Lancel ultimately led to him turning his back on his father's betrothal arrangement and, essentially, switching from Team Lannister to Team Faith. If he is one of the "kingmaker" game pieces (as I suspect Bonifer Hasty may be) this is a serious loss for Cersei's game. 

I agree that Ser Bonifer is likely to pick a Targaryen heir (or perceived Targaryen heir) over the current regime. 

Another line of symbolism that might help to predict the future of the Faith is the "sparrow" and "little bird" motif. Varys was associated with little birds as the master of whispers. Littlefinger told Catelyn and Ned that Varys would not want the birds to sing:

Quote

Littlefinger smiled. "Leave Lord Varys to me, sweet lady. If you will permit me a small obscenity—and where better for it than here—I hold the man's balls in the palm of my hand." He cupped his fingers, smiling. "Or would, if he were a man, or had any balls. You see, if the pie is opened, the birds begin to sing, and Varys would not like that. Were I you, I would worry more about the Lannisters and less about the eunuch." (AGoT, Eddard IV)

The reemergence of the Faith Militant and the Warrior's Sons may represent the opening of a pie and the singing of the birds. We know that Cersei made all of the arrangements for Joffrey's wedding feast, and that the opening of the pigeon pie was the moment when Joffrey began to choke and die. Could the High Sparrow and the sparrows who follow him represent another "birds begin to sing" moment for Cersei?

[Jon Fossoway]

I like the superficial simplicity, although subtly deep, of both Lancel and Bonifer stories. They switch love for faith. 

Cases of former drug addicts (like me) switching to something equally addictive, yet a bit more healthy, be it eating a lot or becoming a long distance runner (like me), are common. Lancel's had more than an infatuation with Cersei: the dude was absolutely taken by her. Cersei was his drug. His love for her was a drug addict crave for dope when dopesick. When he gave up that big feeling he had for her, he went over to an equally absorbing scheme: the Faith. I reckon Bonifer Hasty had a more than infatuation with Rhaella, and when she went to marry Aerys, the dude made the same as Lancel: not taking refuge, but embracing with the same brazenness a strong faith, that now serves as a life scheme. But make no mistake: both dudes were the obsesive kind from the start.

But what I am aiming with this is, given that Hasty's faith is relentless and boulder-like strong, he will NOT stop at anything from defending it. So yeah, a potential military confrontation with the Crown, incarnated by Cersei, is quite a possibility.

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

5 hours ago, Seams said:

I wonder whether Lancel's story can provide some clues about the future of the Faith Militant and the Warrior's Sons? 

Like Ser Bonifer, he had an affair with a queen who was out of his league. Both men turned to religion after the disappointing outcome of their affairs.

The unique twist in Lancel's arc is that he was married to Amerei Frey, known as Gatehouse Ami, before dissolving the unconsummated union and dedicating his life to the faith. What kinds of things happen when ASOIAF characters screw up their Frey betrothals and marriages? Nothing good, I'm thinking.

Lancel is definitely an interesting connection that i hadn't as much considered here. depending on his disposition and the status of his house after the red wedding part 2, he's in a interesting position to deal with the brotherhood without banners. both them and the faith may end up situated in the riverlands with fundamentally conflicting beliefs regarding gods. its an interesting set up either way. and if they freys are framed fro the red wedding part 2 then we have our riverlands situated stronghold for warring against eachother. sorry my tin foil hat is showing.

2 hours ago, Jon Fossoway said:

I like the superficial simplicity, although subtly deep, of both Lancel and Bonifer stories. They switch love for faith. 

Cases of former drug addicts (like me) switching to something equally addictive, yet a bit more healthy, be it eating a lot or becoming a long distance runner (like me), are common. Lancel's had more than an infatuation with Cersei: the dude was absolutely taken by her. Cersei was his drug. His love for her was a drug addict crave for dope when dopesick. When he gave up that big feeling he had for her, he went over to an equally absorbing scheme: the Faith. I reckon Bonifer Hasty had a more than infatuation with Rhaella, and when she went to marry Aerys, the dude made the same as Lancel: not taking refuge, but embracing with the same brazenness a strong faith, that now serves as a life scheme. But make no mistake: both dudes were the obsesive kind from the start.

But what I am aiming with this is, given that Hasty's faith is relentless and boulder-like strong, he will NOT stop at anything from defending it. So yeah, a potential military confrontation with the Crown, incarnated by Cersei, is quite a possibility.

this is a very interesting analysis on Lancels character and his relationship to Cersei, and possible expectations regarding Bonifer. Its a comparison based on personal experiences that i think not a lot of people on this forum are able or willing to share, so I just want to thank you for this unique perspective.

[Leonardo]

100% will be a rallying point for the faithful, good thinking. I dunno how many it gets from KL, I think it more likely to have people pouring in from the riverlands, and westerlands and vale to rally behind one of the orders of the faith.

 

There will likely be other pockets as well, but outside of KL will def be the biggest one and fits with the last contest with the faith militant. The odds of him and the high sparrow picking fAegon are way bigger than them picking anyone else. Can't pick anyone in King's Landing, they're all rife with sin and have no claim outside Tommen; can't pick Stannis cuz lol fire god; fAegon is their only place to turn, and he's far preferable to Daenerys.

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

11 hours ago, Leonardo said:

100% will be a rallying point for the faithful, good thinking. I dunno how many it gets from KL, I think it more likely to have people pouring in from the riverlands, and westerlands and vale to rally behind one of the orders of the faith.

 

There will likely be other pockets as well, but outside of KL will def be the biggest one and fits with the last contest with the faith militant. The odds of him and the high sparrow picking fAegon are way bigger than them picking anyone else. Can't pick anyone in King's Landing, they're all rife with sin and have no claim outside Tommen; can't pick Stannis cuz lol fire god; fAegon is their only place to turn, and he's far preferable to Daenerys.

yeah you said it. I think we'll see more refuges in the river lands than anywhere else though, because it is the one place that has endured the primary heat of the war. we'll see more damage in the Reach and Stormlands soon, but if there is fighting in the south, I feel it makes sense to flee north. or maybe not.

With the Isle of Faces at the center of the God's Eye, I wonder if conflict with the old gods will escalate. I mean I can totally imagine fundamentalist bringing down the weirwoods there

[Mister Smikes]

I don't expect any confrontations with Cersei.  His assignment to Harrenhall puts him away from the center of things.  And his mission - to bring peace to the region for the benefit of those who live there - is a worthy one regardless of who sits on the Iron Throne.  King Tommen will be dead before he hears from him again; and Cersei will be not far behind.

He is now, however, closer to (1) the God's Eye, along the frozen shore of which the girl in grey on a dying horse will flee from the marriage they have made for her; (2)  Nymeria's wolf pack; (3) his old acquaintance the Ghost of High Heart - fellow survivor of Summerhall; (4) Lady Stoneheart, a revenant who, he says, is powerless against a man who arms himself in his faith; (5) the secrets of Harrenhall and the Isle of Faces.

[The Commentator]

The Faith, Lannisters, North, Ironborn, and the Dornish will be fighting when the White Walkers cross the wall. The fight will be for power (Lannisters), revenge (Starks), religion (Faith vs OG vs Rhllor vs Drowned God). The Faith is only a player in the game.