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Daenerys Should Sack Volantis, or require its Triarchs to do her Homage and bend the knee.


House Selmy

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Throughout most of DwD and towards its end we see how the Volantenes celebrate at the expected down fall of the “Silver queen in the East”. Volantis, who prides itself as being the first daughter of Valyria, is surprisingly egger to see the downfall of the last true daughter of Valyria due to her disrupter to delicate global market that’s tied to slavery. If any of the released chapters in Selmy, and Tyrians POV say anything about the Volanten fleet heading for slavers bay. Its that they will likely lose at the hand of Victorian Greyjoy and the rest of Dani’s allies.

I make the case that whenever Dani marches west, she will likely need to stop in Volantis. For the transgressions of this city and its continued instance on the evil institution known as slavery, Dani should sack Volantis. She should burn down the old city as Valeria once did to the Rhynor, service fire and steel the old blood that refuse to bend the knee, and finally take all her wealth and power to aid in her Westerosi campaign. If this proves to difficult of a task due to time, troops and other pre cautions, she should at least end slavery, gain the wealth of the old blood behind the Black walls and take Volantis ship to transport her Dothraki khalasar she means to take west.

Obviously taking Volantis won’t be an easy thing like that of the Astapor, Yunkai and Marine, even with full grown dragons. The Triarchs of Volantis rule the live of million from there city to the towns of Volon Therys, Sar Mell and others up river. They can pull together a strong host from these large populations and give battle on multiple fronts. There is also the high walls and wealth of the older city of Volantis. The old blood can hire more sells word companies, use the mighty fleets of Volantis to attack Dani before she lands her hosts. But all these could be Matched with her dragons alone. Dani can also formant a huge slave uprising before she even gets there as she did with Merine. Like the other free cities, the slave population of Volantis outnumbers the freeborn and nobility 5/1. This doesn’t even speak of the Red priestess of Valor who are already preaching to the thousands about Asor Ahi and the doom that could befall Volantis if they don’t aid Dani instead of fighting her. Besides these, there exists powerful but discontent players within Volantis itself that would welcome a new ruler like Dani, least of all the widow of the water front aka “Vogarros Whore”. All her influence and connections could have the gates of the city open when Dani’s armies are the door.

Even with the downsides and cost of such a thing, there is so much Dany could gain from such a conquest that this almost seems like a no brainer. For starters, what a better way to Flex your might before ever getting to Westeros. Such a feet would also be a stern warning to the other free cities of her wrath if they choose to oppose her or help her enemies. This could also convince them to free their slaves before she even arrives, catching the attention and further assistance of the mighty city of Bravos. The only other major power in the world that’s as dedicated to the eradication of slavery as Dani is. The wealth of the Iron banks and the Vast fleet of the Sealord could go along way in fighting both the Lannister’s and Tyrells. I do believe the Iron bank errored in aiding Stannis instead of Dani in their hopes of regaining the money Robert spent as Dany is much more likely to take the Iron throne then Stannis. So what do yall think? I think it’s something Dani should and will probably do as Martin has hinted at. Obviously its no easy thing, but our Dragon queen has never had it easy.

 

 

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On 7/13/2021 at 9:49 PM, Eltharion21 said:

Nah Braavos would never support Daenerys, because of dragons, their long life span and possibility of rebuilt Valyrian empire. Despite they might sympathize with Daenerys anti slavery attitude. 

I think its more complicated then that. The Braavosi are smart and politically shrewed, first they would consider how to best regain there money. Second they can research enough into Dani to see that she would have no interest in conquering or even attempting to attacking Bravos. Its not like they haven't had any interaction with House targaryen in the past. Plus the Sealord of Bravos was a witness to the marriage contract that was originally signed between Dorne and on behalf of house targaryen by Sir William Dary. Lets not put them out of consideration. If anything they might simply aid her through loans and ships. 

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Looking at their history: they were founded by escaped slaves from Valyrian Freehold, Faceless men who are part of their culture were created in torments of Valyrian volcanic slave mines, very city was hiding for centuries until they had some power to defy remaining dragonlords.

Their rising power - naval supremacy and trade would be threatened by rise of aerial power of dragons, which looking at the Fire & Blood are long lived creatures- for around three hundred years or more.

Who is to guarantee that Daenerys's heir or people who claim dragons would remain true to her policy of anti-slavery?

If Braavos was to prevent rise of new Valyria- which is anathema to their society - time to strike is now while dragons aren't fully grown.

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Volantis’ ruling people deserves to get punished for the sin of slavery. With that being said, Daenerys is not going to sack the city.  The former slaves will distribute the resources of the masters. 
 

It will be a less bloody war for independence if she arrives with her dragons before the slaves start their rebellion. But the Widow is already prepared. The slaves will revolt on their own and the war will last long.  Slavery needs to end. Better if it can end peacefully but if there must be war, then war it will be.

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On 7/22/2021 at 12:02 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

It will be a less bloody war for independence if she arrives with her dragons before the slaves start their rebellion. But the Widow is already prepared. The slaves will revolt on their own and the war will last long.  Slavery needs to end. Better if it can end peacefully but if there must be war, then war it will be.

I disagree. In her last chapter of ADWD, Dany was choosing the more violent warpath as a way to achieve the justice she sees. I think she sweeps in and turns the Black Walls of Volantis into a new Harrenhal or Field of Fire with her dragon power. The masters are destroyed in a huge flight of death, but the worshippers of the Red God hail her as Azor Ahai and she leaves the city to the freedmen before marching on to Pentos.

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On 7/24/2021 at 5:52 PM, StarksInTheNorth said:

I disagree. In her last chapter of ADWD, Dany was choosing the more violent warpath as a way to achieve the justice she sees. I think she sweeps in and turns the Black Walls of Volantis into a new Harrenhal or Field of Fire with her dragon power. The masters are destroyed in a huge flight of death, but the worshippers of the Red God hail her as Azor Ahai and she leaves the city to the freedmen before marching on to Pentos.

I'm not entirely sure Daenerys will destroy Volantis. I think Volantis will just be sacked by the slaves as a gigantic slave revolt and much of the booty will be freely given to Daenerys who will then either redistribute the wealth or use it to fund her invasion of Westeros.

The likelihood of her destroying Norvos (or Qarth, Lys or Tyrosh but especialy Norvos) is higher as Norvos is basically two cities made entirely out of wood downwind from each other with one said city being atop a high hill.

As for the Braavosi...that's tough. I can see something of a civil war or ongoing unrest occurring in Braavos because of Daenerys. I can see a third of the city supporting her, another third of the city seeing her as a threat that needs to be taken out and another third of the city indifferent and wanting to stay out of it.

I think her last chapter in Winds will be her going to Pentos, coming face-to-face with Illyrio and preparing her armies to sail for Westeros.

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16 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I'm not entirely sure Daenerys will destroy Volantis. I think Volantis will just be sacked by the slaves as a gigantic slave revolt and much of the booty will be freely given to Daenerys who will then either redistribute the wealth or use it to fund her invasion of Westeros.

The likelihood of her destroying Norvos (or Qarth, Lys or Tyrosh but especialy Norvos) is higher as Norvos is basically two cities made entirely out of wood downwind from each other with one said city being atop a high hill.

As for the Braavosi...that's tough. I can see something of a civil war or ongoing unrest occurring in Braavos because of Daenerys. I can see a third of the city supporting her, another third of the city seeing her as a threat that needs to be taken out and another third of the city not wanting to stay out of the mess.

I think her last chapter in Winds will be her going to Pentos, coming face-to-face with Illyrio and preparing her armies to sail for Westeros.

I've been rereading the non-Arya Essos chapters recently and imo there's tons of hints towards a Dothraki attack coming to Volantis throughout the chapters. Especially this interaction from Tyrion III:

The fat man made a rude noise. "Zekko visits Qohor every three or four years. The Qohorik give him a sack of gold and he turns east again. As for Motho, his men are near as old as he is, and there are fewer every year. The threat is—"

"—Khal Pono," Haldon finished. "Motho and Zekko flee from him, if the tales are true. The last reports had Pono near the headwaters of the Selhoru with a khalasar of thirty thousand. Griff does not want to risk being caught up in the crossing if Pono should decide to risk the Rhoyne." Haldon glanced at Tyrion. "Does your dwarf ride as well as he pisses?"

Pono was one of the kos who served Drogo, the first to abandon him after his death. Dany making some appearance with her growing khalasar, claiming to be the Stallion Who Mounts The World, and using her newly-claimed 30k Dothraki would be a pretty easy way to set off this hint. IDK if it's a hint on the same level as Nymeria's pack, though. Only GRRM knows (for now, since we will hopefully someday get TWOW).

As for the other cities . . . Norvos is on the way to Pentos so actually works for the direction she's likely to head. Lys or Tyrosh are also generally in that direction, but since we've actually seen the inside of Volantis on-page, imo it makes more sense for any city-burning to be that one. There's the Benerro and the R'hllorites, the Widow of the Waterfront, and the Black Walls. But at the same time we knew nothing about Yunkai besides "it has slaves" when Dany made her attack there. I think Qarth is the least likely, though, since it's so incredibly far away and in the opposite direction of everything else that Dany needs to get done. It would have thematic sense and "Their ships arrived back in Meereen" can be explained in a few paragraphs, but if Winds is a book of characters coming together, Qarth is not in the right direction.

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On 7/19/2021 at 11:59 PM, Eltharion21 said:

Looking at their history: they were founded by escaped slaves from Valyrian Freehold, Faceless men who are part of their culture were created in torments of Valyrian volcanic slave mines, very city was hiding for centuries until they had some power to defy remaining dragonlords.

Their rising power - naval supremacy and trade would be threatened by rise of aerial power of dragons, which looking at the Fire & Blood are long lived creatures- for around three hundred years or more.

Who is to guarantee that Daenerys's heir or people who claim dragons would remain true to her policy of anti-slavery?

If Braavos was to prevent rise of new Valyria- which is anathema to their society - time to strike is now while dragons aren't fully grown.

Pushing back on this: the Iron Bank really wants its money. Dany is the candidate for Westeros that is most likely to actually get them that money, because dragons. They can deal with dragon slaying later, if that was their goal, but getting the gold from Westeros after all the trouble will be a big driving factor too.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/10/2021 at 11:23 AM, House Selmy said:

Throughout most of DwD and towards its end we see how the Volantenes celebrate at the expected down fall of the “Silver queen in the East”. Volantis, who prides itself as being the first daughter of Valyria, is surprisingly egger to see the downfall of the last true daughter of Valyria due to her disrupter to delicate global market that’s tied to slavery. If any of the released chapters in Selmy, and Tyrians POV say anything about the Volanten fleet heading for slavers bay. Its that they will likely lose at the hand of Victorian Greyjoy and the rest of Dani’s allies.

I make the case that whenever Dani marches west, she will likely need to stop in Volantis. For the transgressions of this city and its continued instance on the evil institution known as slavery, Dani should sack Volantis. She should burn down the old city as Valeria once did to the Rhynor, service fire and steel the old blood that refuse to bend the knee, and finally take all her wealth and power to aid in her Westerosi campaign. If this proves to difficult of a task due to time, troops and other pre cautions, she should at least end slavery, gain the wealth of the old blood behind the Black walls and take Volantis ship to transport her Dothraki khalasar she means to take west.

Obviously taking Volantis won’t be an easy thing like that of the Astapor, Yunkai and Marine, even with full grown dragons. The Triarchs of Volantis rule the live of million from there city to the towns of Volon Therys, Sar Mell and others up river. They can pull together a strong host from these large populations and give battle on multiple fronts. There is also the high walls and wealth of the older city of Volantis. The old blood can hire more sells word companies, use the mighty fleets of Volantis to attack Dani before she lands her hosts. But all these could be Matched with her dragons alone. Dani can also formant a huge slave uprising before she even gets there as she did with Merine. Like the other free cities, the slave population of Volantis outnumbers the freeborn and nobility 5/1. This doesn’t even speak of the Red priestess of Valor who are already preaching to the thousands about Asor Ahi and the doom that could befall Volantis if they don’t aid Dani instead of fighting her. Besides these, there exists powerful but discontent players within Volantis itself that would welcome a new ruler like Dani, least of all the widow of the water front aka “Vogarros Whore”. All her influence and connections could have the gates of the city open when Dani’s armies are the door.

Even with the downsides and cost of such a thing, there is so much Dany could gain from such a conquest that this almost seems like a no brainer. For starters, what a better way to Flex your might before ever getting to Westeros. Such a feet would also be a stern warning to the other free cities of her wrath if they choose to oppose her or help her enemies. This could also convince them to free their slaves before she even arrives, catching the attention and further assistance of the mighty city of Bravos. The only other major power in the world that’s as dedicated to the eradication of slavery as Dani is. The wealth of the Iron banks and the Vast fleet of the Sealord could go along way in fighting both the Lannister’s and Tyrells. I do believe the Iron bank errored in aiding Stannis instead of Dani in their hopes of regaining the money Robert spent as Dany is much more likely to take the Iron throne then Stannis. So what do yall think? I think it’s something Dani should and will probably do as Martin has hinted at. Obviously its no easy thing, but our Dragon queen has never had it easy.

 

 

Realize, though, that Volantis has just undergone a political seachange and could very well be in the midst of a slave revolt. First, you have Benerro preaching that Dany is the savior and that Volantis will burn if it goes to war with the dragon queen. Then, Victarian sees dancing in the streets and exuberant talk of the new triarchs and how they will defeat the dragon queen, which can only mean that the tigers have won the election.

Combine that with the fact that the slaves outnumber freemen five to one, and I think it is very possible that the Volantene galleys heading to Meereen will be run by slaves by the time they arrive and will support Dany, not fight her.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/12/2021 at 7:54 AM, John Suburbs said:

First, you have Benerro preaching that Dany is the savior and that Volantis will burn if it goes to war with the dragon queen.

Any character preaching about "saviors" is going to eat their own words.

"Volantis will burn" means Dany kills him and the slaves. Firebombing tends to do that.

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Slavers Bay would seem to prove that Dany, however well intentioned, just ends up making things worse in many ways once she upsets the balance of society there. If Dany comes to "save" Volantis, people will suffer. Not that I see what her doing this would add to the overall story narrative other than to make another Mereenese knot.

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On 8/21/2021 at 4:57 PM, Lord Lannister said:

Slavers Bay would seem to prove that Dany, however well intentioned, just ends up making things worse in many ways once she upsets the balance of society there. If Dany comes to "save" Volantis, people will suffer. Not that I see what her doing this would add to the overall story narrative other than to make another Mereenese knot.

The problem with that viewpoint is that it treats the violence of those who enforce the unjust and corrupt status quo as legitimate, whereas the  violence of opposing it is deemed illegitimate. 

People will suffer in war.  But, the answer does not lie in the majority simply putting up with whatever a small minority of the population wish to do to them.

WRT Volantis, yes, I'm quite sure the people will revolt against the Old Blood, and that this revolt will not be civilised.

@John SuburbsI agree that the armada will revolt. 

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The gainable wealth from a possible sack of Volantis or other major cities would be handy for Daenerys. Not that she'd need it, Westeros would need it. In case of a harsh winter, the realm would suffer like never before. And the Others are coming, what are we supposed to expect. Either way, Braavos wants his money back, and they could support Daenerys finantially and martially despite trying to get rid of her and the dragons. Not that Braavos could win a war against dragons, why would it be able.? It's the Faceless Men that make Braavos a threat. 

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On 7/14/2021 at 3:49 AM, Eltharion21 said:

Nah Braavos would never support Daenerys, because of dragons, their long life span and possibility of rebuilt Valyrian empire. Despite they might sympathize with Daenerys anti slavery attitude. 

The Braavosi have no history of bad blood with the Targaryens.  I imagine they'll be wary but sympathetic towards her, given their own record of fighting slavery.

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I think part of the road of Daenerys downfall is that she doesn’t sack Volantis; it would take too much time to get it stable again. I think they offer her some big prizes, a shit ton of money and knowledge that can’t be gleaned anywhere outside the black walls. It’ll be the first of many compromises that starts her down a darker road that betrays her morals for the sake of power.

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3 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

The gainable wealth from a possible sack of Volantis or other major cities would be handy for Daenerys. Not that she'd need it, Westeros would need it. In case of a harsh winter, the realm would suffer like never before. And the Others are coming, what are we supposed to expect. Either way, Braavos wants his money back, and they could support Daenerys finantially and martially despite trying to get rid of her and the dragons. Not that Braavos could win a war against dragons, why would it be able.? It's the Faceless Men that make Braavos a threat. 

Not that any of this is incorrect but I have a feeling that money won't play as much of a part during a harsh winter as food in general. We already see several feet of snow in KL, so it should be more a "is there even enough food" than a "do we have enough money to buy food" scenario, similar to how the ending of WoT played out.

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31 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Not that any of this is incorrect but I have a feeling that money won't play as much of a part during a harsh winter as food in general. We already see several feet of snow in KL, so it should be more a "is there even enough food" than a "do we have enough money to buy food" scenario, similar to how the ending of WoT played out.

I assume the mediterranean area of Planetos will not suffer as harshly from the Winter that'll come. I think of the southern coast of Essos. If not, then certainly there will be food which will have a certain price (basically pretty high)...On the other hand: The Reach has a massive amount of food for winter, just as the Vale. Still, the Stormlands have no agriculture, nor does Dorne (nor they have the population compared to other kingdoms). But the Westerlands are exhausted, the North as well, the Crownlands and the Riverlands are already suffering. I suppose food will be purchased as long as there is food and money. By now noone can get more supplies, but wealth? Daenerys surely can. 

This act I'm talking about might save a few million people, but the entire population? No way. After all, it has to be the harshest winter in 10000 years. 

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2 hours ago, Leonardo said:

I think part of the road of Daenerys downfall is that she doesn’t sack Volantis; it would take too much time to get it stable again. I think they offer her some big prizes, a shit ton of money and knowledge that can’t be gleaned anywhere outside the black walls. It’ll be the first of many compromises that starts her down a darker road that betrays her morals for the sake of power.

That'd be interesting, Volantis has more of Myshas children then any place in the whole world, her abandoning them would definitely be a stepping stone to the Mad Stormborn. 

Tyrions first hand knowledge would probably come into play too and he's a few silver hairs away from being something of a mad stormborn as well

4 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Braavos wants his money back, and they could support Daenerys finantially and martially

Thing is, they don't. When Cerseis KL stalled her debts, the IB of Braavos eyed all of Cerseis every growing list of enemies and decided to bank... Stannis. Stannis! The one in the snow. 

The safest or most probable combatant in Braavos' eyes is not the silver dragon in Mereen but the loser of BW who lives at the wall... I like the guy, but Stannis is neither the safe bet nor reliable. Its throwing away money, which is somehow more preferable then payrolling Aerys' daughter with her lengthy track record.  Somethings up. 

4 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

The gainable wealth from a possible sack of Volantis or other major cities would be handy for Daenerys

Pentos. Dorne, under the banner of the Windblown, will soon be declaring war on the free city and praying to all 7 gods individually that Dany joins them. After all her Hand said she would, even though he thinks she's dead and he kinda just made up his position as Hand.

Somethings gonna happen in Pentos though, and like all free city wars its never just one free city. I'd be shocked if Volantis, even after their sure defeat at Merreen, don't join in the war on one side or the other. Hopefully Danys side and then hopefully with lots of concessions and we get to see Dark Dany :devil:

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