Final: England v Italy

[mormont]

2 hours ago, Gorn said:

I don't think Southgate is a bad coach, but I do think he is a limited one. His approach is too cold and clinical and ignores the psychological side of coaching.

This, I think, is a poor way to say what you're trying to say - cold and clinical doesn't fit well with, well, this sort of image. And as I noted, Southgate's man-management has been excellent, so he clearly understands the pyschological side of coaching: in fact, everything I've read about him and his backroom team suggests it's a high priority in terms of motivating his players, creating a team spirit, ensuring that everyone not only understands but buys into the tactical approach, and so on.

2 hours ago, Gorn said:

For example, a more emphatic coach would have recognized that Italy were shellshocked after an early goal, and that pressing them with continued offense could have easily resulted in a couple of more goals in the first half (see Germany-Brazil in 2014).

To be fair, England did do this for about the first twenty minutes - they didn't score again, but they stuck with the original plan and created opportunities. That they didn't score again doesn't mean that Southgate didn't understand that they had the opportunity to.

2 hours ago, Gorn said:

Or that turtling is not the best way to make use of the Wembley home field advantage, since the fans need something to actually cheer. Or that shooting penalties in training is not the same thing as shooting penalties in a tournament final. Or that players who were benched for most of the tournament might not be psychologically ready to shoot penalties in the finals.

The last is a valid point.

[Heartofice]

Having watched clips of Southgate at key moments I do suspect he is heavily reliant on his backroom staff to help him out. It’s not unusual for coaches to talk to assistants and throw ideas around but there have been a number of times where he’s looked a little ‘rabbit in the headlights’, and maybe needs someone to tell him what to do. We have to remember this is a guy with very little coaching experience.

’Get the yellow cards off’ moment was kinda telling, and I knew from before the penalty shootout happened that we’d lose because there just seemed to be such disorganisation watching England decide who’s taking them. 
 

So a bit of me suspects that while Southgate is a deep thinker and a good planner, he might not be someone who is able to adapt quickly to changes or has confidence enough to make snap decisions.  His subs are always slow, he changes too late ( definitely needed to change to adjust to what Italy were doing before the goal) and he doesn’t always make the brave calls. 
 

As for turtling, a bit of that is tactical but since it happens to all England sides I’m thinking it’s a mental thing, too scared to push up too often.

[ljkeane]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

I knew from before the penalty shootout happened that we’d lose because there just seemed to be such disorganisation watching England decide who’s taking them.

It looked a bit chaotic but, in fairness, they do seem to have had a plan. Rashford and Sancho missed but they're probably both good calls to take penalties with Rashford having taken several over the years for United and Sancho, apparently, at least having taken a few for Dortmund. The only real issue I'd have is Saka taking the last one but they didn't have five regular penalty takers to stick in there so you're going to have to take a gamble one someone.

[Werthead]

Everyone was asking why Grealish and Sterling didn't take one, and apparently both volunteered, but Grealish has taken exactly one penalty in his career, five years ago, and Sterling missed the last three penalties he took for his club, although he did score in the UEFA Nations League under a year ago.

On form, you'd also easily pick Rashford: he's scored 15 penalties, most recently last month, and has missed two, the last time three years ago. Sancho has scored 10 penalties, the most recently in February, and only missed one, four years ago. Both have more penalty experience than Grealish and Sterling combined.

Saka has never taken a penalty ever though, and that's the biggest question mark there. You'd almost automatically put any player in the squad there over him.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Even if you would put Sancho and Rashford there, you didn't need to make them the last takers. You certainly didn't need to make Saka the last one either. See the difference between Italy putting Jorginho (which, granted, missed this one, but he rarely does).

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Everyone was asking why Grealish and Sterling didn't take one, and apparently both volunteered, but Grealish has taken exactly one penalty in his career, five years ago

Aidy Boothroyd is one of Southgate's best friends. When Southgate got the England job and Boothroyd took over the U21s, Grealish had just defected from Ireland.

At the U21 European Championships in 2017, prior to the semi-final against Germany, the team practiced penalties. Grealish scored all sixteen of his, the only player to do so. During the semi, with the game at 2-2 and penalties imminent, Boothroyd made his subs. Grealish remained on the bench. England lost.

The word is that Boothroyd and Grealish just did not get on. Hated each other. And I find it inconceivable that Southgate has not allowed his view of Grealish to be shaped by whatever Boothroyd has been whispering in his ear.

 

[Consigliere]

Saka shouldn't have been a penalty taker. Southgate should have protected him from the penalty shootout by subbing him off (Enrique did this with Pedri). Rashford and Sancho are fair enough decisions. Both have decent penalty records and despite being young in years, both are experienced players. Southgate should have brought both of them on earlier though to give them some time to get a feel of the game and shake off any nerves. Bringing them on out from the cold with 2 minutes remaining was a poor decision which also fucked up England's shape in those last couple of minutes with Rashford at RB and Sancho taking up Henderson's position in midfield. England ended up clinging on to an extent. Rashford and Sancho should have come on for Sterling and Saka at the start of the second period of ET.

[Spockydog]

42 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Saka shouldn't have been a penalty taker.

I disagree. He is an exceptional young footballer, mature beyond his years. Perfectly capable of putting it away.

I would have been perfectly happy to see him go second or third. But the final, potentially deciding penalty? Not in a million years.