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Black Crow

Heresy 237 The Ballad of Trouserless Bob Baratheon

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Are you saying that children is a code word for different factions? Or key players?

It might be. At this stage we don't know. but it may be significant Ned and Bob and Rugen/Varys both declare independently that they are doing it for the children

Edited by Black Crow

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1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Or, Rhaegar’s sole motivation is the fulfillment of the prophecies concerning his son, but realizes all is for nought if he allows his son’s kingdom to vanish.  Something that becomes a very real possibility after the Battle of the Bells

Certainly. Rhaegar wants to fulfill the prophecy [whatever it is] but whether he believes that only a son of House Targaryen is capable of doing it or wants the glory  of bringing it about himself, in his mind it all centres around the Dragon

Without getting complicated about this, to his mind the prophecy demands that the sword will be pulled from the stone by a Targaryen bred up to the purpose rather than say for the sake of argument an obscure blacksmith's apprentice

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So what happened to Lyanna then?  Did she end up in the Black Cells?

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Who Knows, but whatever happened it was the consequence of a [very?] long-established course of wild behaviours, not a sudden impulse.

 

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Just my opinion, for what its worth, I think the wildness Ned refers to was a series of incidents that he probably felt contributed to her death.

The first of course was the confrontation with the three squires. Then her participation in the Knight of the Laughing Tree - which I feel fairly confident entailed controlling her horse via skinchanging. And lastly, putting up a fight against her abductors and getting gored in the gut by a sword wielded by Sumner Crakehall, an type of injury that would cause massive bleeding including exhaled blood that would have spattered.

I don't believe she was pregnant and I don't believe Rhaegar even had a clue she was kidnapped. He was on Dragonstone witnessing the birth of his son Aegon. The whole abduction scheme was the brainchild of Tywin Lannister who sent out a group of his men with one of them wearing a suit of armor that looked just like Rhaegar's.

As for Robert...I think he was in on it - willingly or unwillingly he was a stupid oaf. He may or may not have been the true identity of the Smiling Knight, but he certainly is a parallel of him with his two-faced bloody smile. You can't trust charismatic people, because they are more interested in using your goals and aspirations to support their own, and their ability to lie so convincingly is what makes them so successful. 

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1 hour ago, Black Crow said:

Who Knows, but whatever happened it was the consequence of a [very?] long-established course of wild behaviours, not a sudden impulse.

 

What I'm saying is that this is typical behavior, one of which is running off to practice at swords against her father's edict. 

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9 hours ago, Black Crow said:

Calling for Lord Eddard's head simply by way of extirpating the rest of House Stark is understandable, but why Bob ?

But Aerys didn't call for Benjen's head as well, so it's not about House Stark.

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1 hour ago, alienarea said:

But Aerys didn't call for Benjen's head as well, so it's not about House Stark.

Good point. Aerys was more concerned with Jon Arryn’s wards.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I don't believe she was pregnant and I don't believe Rhaegar even had a clue she was kidnapped

I don't know what to think at this point.  I'll take the World Book at face value for moment and consider that Ned thinks she was kidnapped and raped for a reason, because it's part of the family history that Bran is taught.  If those things are true (and I don't know if they are); then I think Rhaegar is capable of kidnapping Lyanna and Aerys is capable of rape.  If there was a child, I don't think it survived and Ned found her in Chataya's brothel.  That would mean that Ned is Jon's father.  So that's a pretty dark road to go down.

Edited by LynnS

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2 hours ago, alienarea said:

Additionally, Ned never speaks bad about Rhaegar. If Rhaegar had betrayed Brandon or Ned knew Rhaegar raped Lyanna, he would.

Well, Ned does confirm to Robert that Rhaegar’s killing constituted vengeance for Lyanna, so there is that.

Quote

“You avenged Lyanna at the Trident,” Ned said, halting beside the king.

 

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8 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Well, Ned does confirm to Robert that Rhaegar’s killing constituted vengeance for Lyanna, so there is that.

 

To me this was more appeasing Robert than bashing Rhaegar, but you have a point.

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5 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm not well right now.  I'm going to take a break for a while.

Take your time to get well again.

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7 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm not well right now.  I'm going to take a break for a while.

Take care and get well soon.:commie:

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11 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Well, Ned does confirm to Robert that Rhaegar’s killing constituted vengeance for Lyanna, so there is that.

 

The language used is significant.

You avenge a hurt afterwards. If we follow the accepted timeline. Trouserless Bob slew Rhaegar at the Trident, then Ned discovered the dying Lyanna down south at the end of the war, ie; Rhaegar died long before Lyanna so Bob didn't avenge her at the Trident.

This either means that the timeline is wrong and that Lyanna died much earlier, or at least that Ned and Bob believed that she had - which would explain the lack of furious energy to find her.

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13 hours ago, alienarea said:

But Aerys didn't call for Benjen's head as well, so it's not about House Stark.

The timing may have been significant. Benjen served as the Stark in Winterfell during the war, but was he already a sworn brother of the Watch and so officially out of the world ?

 

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

The timing may have been significant. Benjen served as the Stark in Winterfell during the war, but was he already a sworn brother of the Watch and so officially out of the world ?

 

Per some SSM, Benjen joined the Watch some months after Ned's return from the war. The decision was already made but it had to wait. GRRM said that he will eventually reveal the motive

Edited by Tucu

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12 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm not well right now.  I'm going to take a break for a while.

Feel better soon dear friend!

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