They're Racist and We Know It - A UK Politics Thread

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Fair point, well made - beyond the pedantry that the passports won't be introduced for a couple of months yet (and possibly never if it's unpopular)

We’ll see. I have very little sympathy for those anti lockdown protests and it’s terrifying how many lunatics exist on the subject, because it doesn’t get reported in the news just how common and how big a lot of those protests have been recently.

The government doesn’t help it’s case when it talks about freedom day, whilst at the same time not really changing any of the rules on that day, in reality , and instead talking about introducing measures to coerce people into taking vaccinations to simply be allowed to go on a night out. 
 

Those protests look a little less stupid when put in that context.

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I am under no obligation to discuss anything.

Umm Good for you?. 
I too do not have to talk to strangers on the internet. So uh cheers?

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

2. I don’t really see what JK Rowling has to do with a UK poltics thread anyway

Hmm, you think the most famous terfs in the UK can’t have their politics and political impact discussed in the U.K politics thread.

 that interesting.

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

We already had this conversation in a previous thread and it was promptly closed down. 

Which would make initial ping you gave me a little weird right? 

I’ll concede further conversation on this topic with you would be rather pointless. I think you understand the nature of your words and it’s effects even saying things I find…amusing.

@Heartofice also thank you for the emoji uwu 

[williamjm]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Well it was ‘freedom day’ except that masks were mandatory in most situations still, social distancing was still happening, the prime minister was having to self isolate despite being jabbed and having had the rona already and to really give us that sense of freedom, vaccine passports were introduced for nightclubs and indoor events. I’m sure there was cheering in the streets at this level of ‘freedom’

 

It does almost feel as if Boris is trying to make everyone equally unhappy with him regardless of which side of the debate about restrictions they are on. 

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, williamjm said:

It does almost feel as if Boris is trying to make everyone equally unhappy with him regardless of which side of the debate about restrictions they are on. 

Someone made a comment this morning that Boris is doing all the things as a prime   minister that he would have hugely railed against as a columnist. It’s also pretty clear from Cummings testimony that Boris doesn’t really believe in the need for some of these measures, but then I’m not sure Boris believes anything. 

[Which Tyler]

Just now, Heartofice said:

but then I’m not sure Boris believes anything. 

Boris only believes in the utmost importance of Boris' ego

[Varysblackfyre321]

12 hours ago, DMC said:

That math doesn't make sense.  Just because 40% of those hospitalized for covid have been vaccinated does not mean 40% of all vaccinated people are being hospitalized.

My initial fear from reading about this was that the vaccines were losing their efficacy.

I actually learned about it from an anti-vaxxer who treated it as validation for his refusal to vaccinate. It was gift for him and to the anti-vax movement.

[Raja]

12 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

 

Do I follow you? I know I did on my old one but I think I haven't seen you for a while unless you've changed/I forgot your handle, and maybe I told you my new one but forgot to follow back, uncouthly?

I closed my old one off and created a new one for work etc. You don't follow me, I'll DM you though!

[The Anti-Targ]

2 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Fair point, well made - beyond the pedantry that the passports won't be introduced for a couple of months yet (and possibly never if it's unpopular)

And it's not a lock down.

[Which Tyler]

10 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

And it's not a lock down.

Oooh - hyper-pedantic.
They're anti-lockdown in the same way that everyone saying that black lives matter are fully on board with the marxist BLM organisation. Really, they're anti- any restrictions at all - hell, they're anti "please don't cough directly in my face" for the most part.
Anti-lockdown was just a good soundbite that they've stuck with.

[Denvek]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Someone made a comment this morning that Boris is doing all the things as a prime   minister that he would have hugely railed against as a columnist. It’s also pretty clear from Cummings testimony that Boris doesn’t really believe in the need for some of these measures, but then I’m not sure Boris believes anything. 

While anything Cummings says needs to be taken with a mountain of salt, Boris having to be explicitly told "You might kill the Queen" before he turned his weekly trip to Buckingham Palace into a phone call sounds very Boris.

[DMC]

4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

The government doesn’t help it’s case when it talks about freedom day, whilst at the same time not really changing any of the rules on that day, in reality , and instead talking about introducing measures to coerce people into taking vaccinations to simply be allowed to go on a night out. 

I think we're playing pretty fast and loose with the term "government coercion" when describing this requirement as such compared to what that usually entails.  Seems to pretty distinctly reside on the side of limiting privileges in the interest of public safety.  Might as well call requiring people to take a driver's test in order to obtain a license "coercion."

[Pebble thats Stubby]

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

I think we're playing pretty fast and loose with the term "government coercion" when describing this requirement as such compared to what that usually entails.  Seems to pretty distinctly reside on the side of limiting privileges in the interest of public safety.  Might as well call requiring people to take a driver's test in order to obtain a license "coercion."

I think thats the Anti Gun Licences 2nd Ammendment people in the US argument in a nut shell.   Sorry this is UK politics not US Politics

 

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

I think we're playing pretty fast and loose with the term "government coercion" when describing this requirement as such compared to what that usually entails.  Seems to pretty distinctly reside on the side of limiting privileges in the interest of public safety.  Might as well call requiring people to take a driver's test in order to obtain a license "coercion."

Well it’s certainly not the same as being a purely voluntary activity is it.

Its basically preventing access to goods and services unless people take a medical procedure. I find that quite shocking actually. I could have lived with a temporary rule where people had to provide proof of negative test but this seems like a gigantic step too far, especially as it’s not clear when such a law would stop being necessary 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Its basically preventing access to goods and services unless people take a medical procedure.

Sure, but those goods and services are far from essential.  Short children and pregnant woman are also denied the goods and services of certain rides at the amusement park.

[Spockydog]

7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Well it’s certainly not the same as being a purely voluntary activity is it.

Getting twatted down Fabric on a Friday night is compulsory?

[ljkeane]

13 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I could have lived with a temporary rule where people had to provide proof of negative test but this seems like a gigantic step too far, especially as it’s not clear when such a law would stop being necessary 

You've been posting for a while about how herd immunity isn't going to happen and we're going to have to live with covid. What exactly do you think living with covid is going to look like if not this?

[Soylent Brown]

Yeah, part of living with covid going forward is going to be minimising its impact. We can't just all pretend that it doesn't exist any more and go back to how things were. Even if the death rate is low, tens/hundreds of thousands of the country's workforce being off sick is going to screw things up pretty badly.

Restrictions like vaccine passports should hopefully allow most venues to remain open, so whats the problem? There really aren't all that many people who have a legitimate reason to not get vaccinated. We shouldn't be catering to cranks.

 

[Heartofice]

54 minutes ago, DMC said:

Sure, but those goods and services are far from essential.  Short children and pregnant woman are also denied the goods and services of certain rides at the amusement park.

That’s very different to requiring someone to have a medical procedure to access a service. 
 

43 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

You've been posting for a while about how herd immunity isn't going to happen and we're going to have to live with covid. What exactly do you think living with covid is going to look like if not this?

Well there’s a couple of things. Firstly as i said I could maybe accept giving proof of a negative test, that is reasonable as a temp measure.

But then when it comes to ‘herd immunity’ the whole point of vaccination programmes was to drive down deaths and hospitalisations to the point where normality could be resumed, and on the whole that has happened. Living with Covid in the way we live with the flu was something the government has described, yet we don’t deny people access to venues because they haven’t had their flu jab.

There is also the ‘slippery slope’ argument that is often used by cranks but is starting to look more plausible. If we restrict people into nightclubs based on what injections we’ve given them, what else would you restrict? Is it gyms next?

It’s a level of intervention I’m not comfortable with and I  don’t think it should be hand waved as a necessary step, because it’s far from clear that it is.

[TrueMetis]

Are we doing that thing were we pretend that requiring vaccination to access a service is new? Or is the UK really that different. Ya'll don't require a measles shot before going to school?

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Are we doing that thing were we pretend that requiring vaccination to access a service is new? Or is the UK really that different. Ya'll don't require a measles shot before going to school?

If it was mandatory then you might have a point.