They're Racist and We Know It - A UK Politics Thread

[Isis]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

If so, wouldn’t test numbers be affected? They stayed pretty strong for this period of decline, unless that’s about as much as they can process and so tests that were being performed on app-pinged people (obviously theoretically more likely to have  Covid) have been replaced with a more random assortment of people. 

But app deletion would also presumably be followed by a rise in people getting it, being symptomatic and testing anyway. Maybe we haven’t seen it yet, I’m not sure.

I'm not sure you can draw a direct connection between people who have the app and people being tested. People test for a wide variety of reasons, e.g. My employer has instructed all staff to test every single day before going into work. 

Since tests are freely available to all via multiple sources I really don't think there will be a strong association between people the number of antigen tests performed and the number of people using the app. 

Also, some people have decided to effectively shield themselves from July 19th as they don't feel that the government cares about their welfare. So they won't be getting pinged either. 

[DaveSumm]

1 minute ago, Isis said:

I'm not sure you can draw a direct connection between people who have the app and people being tested. People test for a wide variety of reasons, e.g. My employer has instructed all staff to test every single day before going into work. 

Since tests are freely available to all via multiple sources I really don't think there will be a strong association between people the number of antigen tests performed and the number of people using the app. 

Also, some people have decided to effectively shield themselves from July 19th as they don't feel that the government cares about their welfare. So they won't be getting pinged either. 

Surely those getting pinged are generally getting tested though? I mean I’d want to know personally.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Well at least you honestly accept the coercion term.

It's semantics. You can call seatbelt laws coercion if you want to. Doesn't change the fact that they save so many lives every day.

Quote

But yeah again depends. The Uk has very high levels of vaccination amongst vulnerable groups and the vaccines are doing their job here in terms of preventing death and lowering hospitalisations. 

So? If less vulnerable people chose to not get vaccinated, they are risking their own lives, the lives of others, and worse yet, more variants. 

Quote

So what is it we want from the vaccination programme now? As I posted up earlier, the goal of the UK vaccination programme was explicitly to protect the vulnerable, not to eliminate the virus completely. 

Then that mission statement if flawed. You can't protect the vulnerable without also doing everything possible to beat the virus. And the selfishness of many continues to expose the vulnerable, so what are we really talking about here? 

Quote

Im genuinely amazed that more people are not outraged by some of the illiberal policies being put forward right now. There might be a case for them has we been unable to vaccinate the vulnerable and people were still dying in large numbers but we have and they aren’t.

But that I guess is the level of fear we are living with now.

It's not fear, it's adhering to the science and doing what we need to do so that our societies can actually reopen without needing to worry if we'll just have to close up again in a few weeks or months. 

[Isis]

8 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Surely those getting pinged are generally getting tested though? I mean I’d want to know personally.

I guess for the most part they are. I got pinged today for the second time. It can only have been from the train to work. I haven't been anywhere else! Yes, I tested straight after that. But I'm not going to the testing centre up the road to have a PCR test done. I'm WFH next week anyway. A friend suggested I delete the app and not let a computer tell me what to do. 

But, it remains that not all tests happen due to pings. I've tested six times this week and been pinged once. 

[Spockydog]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Im genuinely amazed that more people are not outraged by some of the illiberal policies being put forward right now. 

Most people know they are for the greater good. And most people would rather do the right thing, than cling to the selfish, libertarian bullshit being propagated right now. 

[SeanF]

30 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

That’s actually lower than the previous Saturday, a fortnight ago. Great news. Does seem that schools are the real conundrum here … it was clearly rife amongst that age group, and it’s incredibly tough to segregate kids effectively. On an individual level, the tiny risks of a vaccine just aren’t worth the tiny risks of Covid for that age group. But on a societal level, vaccinating all school age groups would bring such an enormous benefit.

Not sure what the answer is, just praying that six weeks off is enough for us to catch up on jabs for 20 somethings, and then when term comes back around hopefully we’re in good shape.

Scottish case numbers started dropping rapidly  about six days after schools closed.

With Delta, it seems case numbers surge rapidly, before falling away rapidly (Holland is an extreme example).  Six weeks should take us to about 85% of adults double-vaxxed.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Most people know they are for the greater good. And most people would rather do the right thing, than cling to the selfish, libertarian bullshit being propagated right now. 

Also they understand that every single unvaccinated person who CHOOSES to be unvaccinated is CHOOSING to put into danger every single other person, whether vaccinated or not, because already it is looking as though the vaccines of Pfizer and Moderna developed for the alpha covid virus are mutating into something that these vaccines need boosters for.  What is so hard for These PEOPLE to understand that instead they yell about coercion, when Their refusal to vaccinate is coercion to everyone who does, to keep masking, etc., BECAUSE THEY won't.

REALLY why in hell do this anti vax refusniks think THEY are entitled to put into danger the lives of people like, o say, those who are overworked and abused by Them in restaurant settings?  O, right, entitled selfish stupid bastards.

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Also they understand that every single unvaccinated person who CHOOSES to be unvaccinated is CHOOSING to put into danger every single other person, whether vaccinated or not, because already it is looking as though the vaccines of Pfizer and Moderna developed for the alpha covid virus are mutating into something that these vaccines need boosters for.  What is so hard for These PEOPLE to understand that instead they yell about coercion, when Their refusal to vaccinate is coercion to everyone who does, to keep masking, etc., BECAUSE THEY won't.

Alpha isn't OG COVID, though, the one that appeared in China in late 2019 and then spread around the world. Alpha is the Artist Formerly Known as the Kent Variant, which only became a variant of concern in November 2020.

Beta is the South Africa variant (October 2020), Gamma is the lesser-known Tokyo variant (January 2021, never took off due to Japan's stringent quarantining and its own apparent inability to spread quickly) and Delta, aka the India variant (late 2020), is the most successful spin-off of the original.

There's also variants of interest which have appeared and got various names but haven't exploded yet: Eta (Nigeria/UK, December 2020), Iota (New York City, April 2021), Kappa (India, December 2020) and the hottest new kid on the block, Lambda (Peru, August 2020, though it only started spreading to other countries in June 2021). Lambda has early signs of being more easily transmissible than Delta and its spike protein structure might be significantly different, rendering it immune to all current vaccines. Fortunately, it does not appear to be as deadly as other variants, though this is not yet fully confirmed.

There's also other variants which were of interest and were in widespread circulation but have been downgraded as a threat, most notably Zeta (aka the Brazil variant) but also Epsilon (Los Angeles, July 2020), and Theta (the Philippines variant, February 2021). These ended up being swamped by Delta and effectively superseded by it.

Right now I believe every country on Earth would happily kill to just be dealing with the OG form of COVID, which was bad enough. Remember when they were saying it was great that coronaviruses don't seem to mutate as easily as other viruses? That worked out fine.

[mormont]

The notion that we are in some way past the point where we need to protect the vulnerable is almost as eyebrow-raising as the idea that the UK government is pursuing, has ever pursued or ever intends to pursue an elimination strategy.

[Impmk2]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Remember when they were saying it was great that coronaviruses don't seem to mutate as easily as other viruses? That worked out fine.

That's almost certainly true. Out of interest I just did an alignment of the OG SARS-CoV-2 spike protein vs a Delta variant uploaded in June. They are remarkably similar given the literally billions and billions of viral generations between them.

Quote

Score	Expect	Method	Identities	Positives	Gaps
2609 bits(6763)	0.0	Compositional matrix adjust.	1264/1273(99%)	1266/1273(99%)	3/1273(0%)

That's 9 amino acid changes and 3 deletions. 99% identity! (ie 99% exactly the same)

By comparison here's influenza hemagglutinin from H1N1 (swineflu) vs H3N2:

Quote

Score	Expect	Method	Identities	Positives	Gaps
454 bits(1169)	4e-159	Compositional matrix adjust.	231/548(42%)	340/548(62%)	9/548(1%)

42% identity. Less than 50% of the amino acids are the same!

Yes I cherry picked the flu as one I knew has massive surface protein difference. But the point is still the same - SARS-CoV-2 really hasn't mutated much at all.

ETA: The biochemist in me is kinda geeking out about how such a small number of amino acid substitutions can have such a big difference on the protein-protein interactions and viral phenotype. I'm very tempted to waste some time at work on Monday and do some modelling.

[Zorral]

39 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Right now I believe every country on Earth would happily kill to just be dealing with the OG form of COVID, which was bad enough. Remember when they were saying it was great that coronaviruses don't seem to mutate as easily as other viruses? That worked out fine.

Whether or not the bolded, it's clear that vast numbers in the UK, Europe and the US are more than willing to kill so They have the freedum of whatever They want whenever They want it. The shyte reported here that restaurant workers are going through from These sorts is making the workers just walk right off the job in the middle of it.

Mutated not much at all, but much more rapidly and effectively transmissible.  Which this transmissibility is evidently not considered any kind of danger by the Naysayers as well.

 

[Raja]

'cower from' - Javid's probably going to keep up with tradition of the present health secretary being worse than the previous one.

What a moron.

[DMC]

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Im genuinely amazed that more people are not outraged by some of the illiberal policies being put forward right now.

I'm genuinely amazed that more people are not outraged by the selfish individuals that are not willing to get the vaccine for no apparent reason but to be a contrarian.

[The Anti-Targ]

Interesting that the illiberal policy specifically quoted was companies implementing vaccine mandates. According to the libertarian right companies are people and hence have a sovereign right to do almost whatever they want to their workers and let the market decide which company will attract workers. If a corporate vaccine mandate is what's upsetting some people, rather than poor workplace health and safety, low pay, excessively long hours, few / no breaks, anti-union coercion, bullying and harassment then that is a rather sad state of affairs.

Surely, there would be no support among these people for the government passing a law prohibiting private businesses from making vaccination a condition of employment, or mandating masks, or proof of vaccination for public entry into the place of business. Wow, wouldn't is be amazing if the free market actually served the public good for once, only for the biggest proponents of the free market to be angry about the free market actually working.

[Soylent Brown]

10 hours ago, DMC said:

I'm genuinely amazed that more people are not outraged by the selfish individuals that are not willing to get the vaccine for no apparent reason but to be a contrarian.

It would be great if the government made breathing compulsory.

[Spockydog]

 

 

[Spockydog]

Absolute fucking state of this headcase.

Calling for the hanging of doctors and nurses, while Johnson and his mates get fat on the blood of the nation. JFC. What kind of country have we created? 

 

 

[Spockydog]

Oh, look. Yet another despicable cunt making his bid for Worst Health Secretary of All Time realises he might have gone a bit too far.

 

[Heartofice]

19 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Absolute fucking state of this headcase.

Calling for the hanging of doctors and nurses, while Johnson and his mates get fat on the blood of the nation. JFC. What kind of country have we created? 

 

 

Some really mentally unwell people making speeches there 

[BigFatCoward]

There are at the very least some public order offences from those speakers. I'm not suggesting we should walk through and drag people off stage, but they should very much be dealt with.