Mrstrategy Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 What if Robb Stark had had named lord Rodrik Ryswell as regent of the North while he matched south to have his father released?would the Ryswell/Dustin still betray starks and support the Bolton's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Qohor Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I don't think we know enough about the Ryswells to know the answer to this. In particular we know next to nothing about the character or motivations of Lord Ryswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hoare Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 The Ryswells and the Dustins never betrayed the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 We just don't know. The only representative of either camp is Barbery Dustin, and her exact agenda is still pretty murky. We know the Ryswells and Dustins currently support House Bolton, but Lady Dustin is crucial for the alliance to hold, and she hates Ramsay. So what's in it for House Ryswell and House Dustin? Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny__bravo Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 As the other posters have said we dont know enough about Rodrik Ryswell's motivations to say what his ultimate goal is. Neither he nor Barbery Dustin outright betrayed the Stark's as Roose Bolton did, but were among the first to support him as the new Warden in the North, probably as much out of going with the prevailing wind, as the marriage links through Bethany Bolton (neé Ryswel). Our only windows in the Ryswell/Dustin backstory/motivations is though Roose's and Barbery's conversations/POV with Theon. When Roose rebukes Ramsey for wanting to flay Barbery and use her skin for boots, he outlines the ties to the Ryswell's/Dustin and the importance of their support. Later when speaking to Theon alone he lists the name of houses of dubious loyalty, the Ryswell's and Barbery Dustin were not among them. However as the Northern story unfolds we start to gain a bit more insight into Barbery's backstory at least, how this might influence her future motivations. Clearly she loved Brandon Stark, and wanted to marry him with her father Rodrick wanting her to marry a Stark as well, although it didn't make much difference to Rodrick which Stark that was. It would seem on the surface at least that Rodrick and Barbery nursed some grievances with Rickard Stark for his Southern ambitions, although Barbery seems to place most of the blame on his grey rat Maester Walys. Barbery's main source of resentment seems to be directly aimed at Ned Stark for getting her husband William Dustin killed rescuing Lyanna, and not returning his remains, or that of Mark Ryswell back to the North, like he did with Lyanna. However if this resentment is reserved for just Ned, or House Stark in general is not readily apparent, she committed the minimum number of men to Ned's rescue when Robb went South and states openly to Theon at least she will feed Ned's bones to her dogs if they appear in the North. But she also states her and Theon are alike because they both wanted to be Stark's and their actions and feelings up to this point have been fueled by this unfulfilled desire or rejection. Theon has taken the first step's to redemption and acknowledging what motivated his actions in the past when the situation in Winterfell became toxic and it is quite likely Barbery might face similar choices in the very near future. Her loyalty and seemingly that of Rodrick Ryswell post Red Wedding has been with Roose Bolton, through the marriage of Bethany, and the close relationship Barbery had with Bethany's son Domeric who served as her page for 4 years. Roose openly states however that she suspects Ramsey as having some part in Domeric's death and that she is a women who knows how to nurse a grievance. What's more she is not afraid to voice those grievance's, openly rebuking Aenys Frey about the Red Wedding and all the houses who lost men, including the Dustin's and Ryswell's as pointed out by Rodrick himself. What is most interesting about this exchange is that she name drop's Lady Hornwood and her treatment in the list of Frey crimes, which was as a result of Ramsey locking her in a tower to stave to death. What is even more interesting is the way she speaks to and in front of Roose Bolton, openly deriding Ramsey as a bastard post legitimization and calling out his crimes and cruelty. She seems to know Roose's mind better than anyone, and how he plays with people, even knowing how to keep her sweet, which may indicate they had some ongoing relationship down the years and that the widow's dress and title was just a way of averting suspicion away from this. Ultimately both for Barbey and House Ryswell it will come down to how those lists of grievances stack up with what is unfolding in Winterfell. Both lost men at the Red Wedding, the faith of the left Ryswell men Roose left behind to guard the Northern bank of the Ruby ford after he sacrificed all the Stark Loyalist's on the other side of the bank remains unknown but were probably killed or captured by the Mountain. Its unclear how much Barbey or Rodrick know of Roose's role in the Red Wedding, but she states to Theon she had her spies in Robb's army reporting to her. She certainly suspects Arya is a fake and that her tears are more dangerous to them than all of Stannis' swords and spears. Both Barbey and Rodrick may have sided with Roose out of marriage ties and political expediency post RW, but if they know or suspect of his involvement in the RW or as many suspect Roose is dead by the time the pink letter arrives at the Wall, both of them may decide that Roose's and especially Ramsey's crimes far-outweigh anything Rickard and Ned may have indirectly done to them in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 10 hours ago, Nathan Stark said: We just don't know. The only representative of either camp is Barbery Dustin, and her exact agenda is still pretty murky. We know the Ryswells and Dustins currently support House Bolton, but Lady Dustin is crucial for the alliance to hold, and she hates Ramsay. So what's in it for House Ryswell and House Dustin? Who knows? I think it's apparent so far that Barbrey is supporting anybody who won't support Ned, given her wish to have Ned's bones fed to her dogs if they make it past Moat Cailin. Which begs the question as to why Ned left his companions' bones back in Dorne, how hard would it be to transport six sets of bones? It would at least ensure he'd make it past Barrowton if he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 I am not convinced that Lady Dustin is either a Stark or Ned hater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 On 7/19/2021 at 8:19 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said: I am not convinced that Lady Dustin is either a Stark or Ned hater. Then why does she express the desire to have Ned's bones fed to her dogs? Doesn't sound like somebody who's supportive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 On 7/18/2021 at 4:17 PM, Mrstrategy said: What if Robb Stark had had named lord Rodrik Ryswell as regent of the North while he matched south to have his father released?would the Ryswell/Dustin still betray starks and support the Bolton's? Robb wasn't king when he marched south and Ned was still alive. Robb wasn't even Lord of Winterfell yet let alone king. When he was first crowned they had just captured Jaime, freed Riverrun and were planning to raid the Westerlands. Nobody wanted a regent. They had just declared independence, named a new king, and things were looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: I am not convinced that Lady Dustin is either a Stark or Ned hater. Yes, I always found it odd how chatty she was with Theon down in the crypts. The only direct evidence of her being any kind of Stark hater comes from that one conversation. On a first read I simply found the conversation odd. After reading various threads on the forum, I now realize how odd the whole trip to the crypts was and it's at least plausible that she was setting up a cover story for the visit knowing that "Reek" was likely to repeat everything to the Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Frankly I don't see why he would. He doesn't have a good relationship with the Ryswells, mostly because it doesn't seem like anyone since Brandon Stark has even talked to Rodrik in canon, though I'm sure Ned was on decent terms with him since Mark Ryswell accompanied him to the ToJ. We don't see much of house Ryswell at all before AFFC except some spearmen from the Rills. It looks on the face of the matter as if neither Rodrik nor his sons rode south with Robb and at least one of them (Roger / Rickard jr) was north of MC to help Ramsay attack. Based on Barbrey sending as few men as she could, it wouldn't surprise me if her father did more or less the same thing. It seems like the Dustins / Ryswells were retconned to be more powerful / prominent in AFFC, so that would be my primary reason for it not happening. GRRM just didn't think they would play a bigger part later in the series, and he is a gardening author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 On 7/20/2021 at 1:59 AM, Angel Eyes said: Then why does she express the desire to have Ned’s bones fed to her dogs? Doesn’t sound like somebody who’s supportive. Because she is surrounded by enemies. She has to appear loyal. On 7/20/2021 at 4:20 AM, Groo said: Yes, I always found it odd how chatty she was with Theon down in the crypts. The only direct evidence of her being any kind of Stark hater comes from that one conversation. On a first read I simply found the conversation odd. After reading various threads on the forum, I now realize how odd the whole trip to the crypts was and it's at least plausible that she was setting up a cover story for the visit knowing that "Reek" was likely to repeat everything to the Boltons. I think that the visit in the crypts has to do with her GNC alliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 You'd have to make an active effort to do worse than Ser Rodrik did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 On 7/24/2021 at 5:32 AM, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Because she is surrounded by enemies. She has to appear loyal. I think that the visit in the crypts has to do with her GNC alliance I can't really imagine Barbrey not having hard feelings towards the Starks; she got snubbed as a wife for Brandon, then married off to some other guy, who gets KIA in what could be viewed as a pointless skirmish, and his leader (Ned) doesn't have the decency to bring back his bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 On 7/19/2021 at 6:02 AM, Nathan Stark said: We just don't know. The only representative of either camp is Barbery Dustin, and her exact agenda is still pretty murky. We know the Ryswells and Dustins currently support House Bolton, but Lady Dustin is crucial for the alliance to hold, and she hates Ramsay. So what's in it for House Ryswell and House Dustin? Who knows? Yep. Also, why would he do this? That he never brings them up while speaking of/to a number of other lords also shows a bit of where he falls in the pecking order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierria Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 On 7/18/2021 at 5:17 PM, Mrstrategy said: What if Robb Stark had had named lord Rodrik Ryswell as regent of the North while he matched south to have his father released?would the Ryswell/Dustin still betray starks and support the Bolton's? It doesn't matter who Robb appointed as long as he remained strong. He became weak after his many dumb decisions. Can you really blame Lady Dustin for switching to the winning side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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