How do the Iroborn have such a huge fleet?

[Falcon2909]

Little to no trees grow in the Iron Islands. Then how did the Ironborn get the wood to build their massive fleet? How have they been such a sea-faring culture for millenia when no trees grow there? Do they just trade all their Iron for wood from other places?

[Angel Eyes]

8 minutes ago, Falcon2909 said:

Little to no trees grow in the Iron Islands. Then how did the Ironborn get the wood to build their massive fleet? How have they been such a sea-faring culture for millenia when no trees grow there? Do they just trade all their Iron for wood from other places?

They could steal it; chop a few trees at a time, transport them to the Iron Islands. Also, did Robert impose sanctions on the Ironborn after Greyjoy's Rebellion, to give an example? The main punishment for it was Theon being taken as a ward by Ned.

[Loose Bolt]

Major reason is the PLOT. Or author of the serie wants Ironborn to be real threat.

[The Hoare]

1 hour ago, Falcon2909 said:

Do they just trade all their Iron for wood from other places?

The in-universe explanation is probably that one, but in truth it's because George wanted to make the isles relevant. Realistically human life shouldnt exist in a world like Planetos either, but it does anyway because the author want it that way

[the Other Wolf]

Lots of trees on the west coast. It would not be too hard to fell some trees and then send the boat to collect and bring back to the Islands.

[The Young Maester]

From what I remember of my westerosi geography. There is a massive forest between flints finger and Seagard. And seeing as that’s a massive amount of land (probably disputed idk) with likely a very small population. It would be too easy for some iron born ship to land with some labourers and begin chopping.

[Groo]

Isn't Braavos a bigger mystery? They even have to import firewood yet they can crank out a new warship in just a day.

The answer for the Iron Islands is likely trade. The islands are supposed to be abundant in iron which is certainly valuable enough to trade for timber. 

[SocratesSnow]

3 minutes ago, Groo said:

Isn't Braavos a bigger mystery? They even have to import firewood yet they can crank out a new warship in just a day.

The answer for the Iron Islands is likely trade. The islands are supposed to be abundant in iron which is certainly valuable enough to trade for timber. 

The Braavos mystery likely has the same answer, trade. The wood for Braavosi ships is purchased specifically for ships, the wood for fires specifcally for fires. 

 

 

[El Guapo]

Because George wanted the Ironborn to have a big fleet

[nyser1]

On 7/27/2021 at 10:05 AM, Falcon2909 said:

Little to no trees grow in the Iron Islands. Then how did the Ironborn get the wood to build their massive fleet? How have they been such a sea-faring culture for millenia when no trees grow there? Do they just trade all their Iron for wood from other places?

I mentioned this a few years back. For the purpose of the plot it has to work. Given their geography and throw in their culture, zippo chance the islands are more than an impoverished lightly populated area.

[Hrulj]

You are confusing TV portrayal of Iron Islands with books. Forrests and woods are mentioned several times, especially in Aerons chapters. The islands are descibed as: "The Iron Islands are small, barely-fertile rocks with few safe harbors. The seas around the isles are stormy, frequently wreaking havoc with their considerable force."

 

Barely fertile rocks for purposes of agriculture and plantations, not in terms of trees ability to grow on them. 

[sifth]

I'm more interested in why Robert would allow them to have one. They shouldn't have been allowed any warships after the rebellion, only fishing, trading and transportation ships.

[Hrulj]

37 minutes ago, sifth said:

I'm more interested in why Robert would allow them to have one. They shouldn't have been allowed any warships after the rebellion, only fishing, trading and transportation ships.

Up until 19th century separating a warship from merchant and other ships was near impossible. Its not like modern ships where you clearly have guns, armor and more. 

[Aldarion]

2 hours ago, Hrulj said:

Up until 19th century separating a warship from merchant and other ships was near impossible. Its not like modern ships where you clearly have guns, armor and more. 

Not really. Remember that Westeros uses galleys. And Vikings - who Ironborn are modelled after - also used separate ship types for warfare and trade. Now, it is true that longships built for warfare were also used for trade, but there was still a distinction between a warship (longship) and a trade ship (knarr).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knarr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longship

What you are saying is only true for dedicated sailing ships (cogs, caravels, carracks).

[The Hoare]

6 hours ago, sifth said:

I'm more interested in why Robert would allow them to have one. They shouldn't have been allowed any warships after the rebellion, only fishing, trading and transportation ships.

Robert was hoping that they would rebel again. War is funnier than "counting coopers".

[Hrulj]

3 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Not really. Remember that Westeros uses galleys. And Vikings - who Ironborn are modelled after - also used separate ship types for warfare and trade. Now, it is true that longships built for warfare were also used for trade, but there was still a distinction between a warship (longship) and a trade ship (knarr).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knarr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longship

What you are saying is only true for dedicated sailing ships (cogs, caravels, carracks).

From what I see of art of Ironborn their ships are not classical longships of Viking age. It’s also far easier to conceal a longship as a merchant than a dromond with several decks of oars, ramming bows and artillery pieces. Almost every family has a ship, it’s a necessity of life in the isles. I still stand by the idea that it’s too hard to determine where one begins and warship ends and that ultimately it’s too much hassle for too little a reward to constantly watch over it. Roberts reign is secured, Balon lost before and other kingdoms are more in hand than before rebellion. If he tried again he’d lose. Why bother. 

[Lady_Qohor]

This isn't entirely unprecedented. Historically both Britain and the Netherlands were small but powerful seafaring nations who didn't have enough wood to build all their ships and had to import some from larger, more sparsely populated areas like Scandinavia, North America and the Baltics. 

Also Robert doesn't have satellite technology, so he may not be aware of the scale of the Iron Fleet

[Aldarion]

3 hours ago, Hrulj said:

From what I see of art of Ironborn their ships are not classical longships of Viking age. It’s also far easier to conceal a longship as a merchant than a dromond with several decks of oars, ramming bows and artillery pieces. Almost every family has a ship, it’s a necessity of life in the isles. I still stand by the idea that it’s too hard to determine where one begins and warship ends and that ultimately it’s too much hassle for too little a reward to constantly watch over it. Roberts reign is secured, Balon lost before and other kingdoms are more in hand than before rebellion. If he tried again he’d lose. Why bother. 

I was responding to your "separating merchant from a warship was nearly impossible". It wasn't. What was true however was that merchant ships may have been used for raiding. Vikings would approach the town, propose (and carry out) a trade, and then raise the war flag and sack the town, and I assume they were not using warships for that. And yes, in need, you can use a merchant longship as a warship and vice-versa. But that does not change their basic function.

[sifth]

I mean take Victarion for example, we're never told he had any other job, other than "Lord Captain of the Iron Fleet". Even if this guy was pardoned his fleet, should have been destroyed or what little was left of it after Stannis defeated it. We're never told that Vicatarion was reduced to working in mines or fishing for a living, just that Victarion is "Lord Captain of the Iron Fleet", which implies that the Iron Fleet had to have existed in some form, under Roberts rule.

Also with the exception of the Reader, Euron, Asha and a handful of others, most of the Ironborn are idiots, so no I don't think they were purposely hiding their warships, so they could one day rebel, I think this is something Robert allowed for some daft reason. I mean heck Robb wants Balon's fleet, because he knows they're strong enough to help him beat Tywin, he wouldn't have asked Balon for help, if he thought the guy only had fishing and transportation ships.

[Falcon2909]

On 8/2/2021 at 6:30 AM, Hrulj said:

You are confusing TV portrayal of Iron Islands with books. Forrests and woods are mentioned several times, especially in Aerons chapters. The islands are descibed as: "The Iron Islands are small, barely-fertile rocks with few safe harbors. The seas around the isles are stormy, frequently wreaking havoc with their considerable force."

 

Barely fertile rocks for purposes of agriculture and plantations, not in terms of trees ability to grow on them. 

where are these forests and woods mentioned?