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Rufats

Westeros MII:TW Mod Units

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Do you need different units for each merc group? For example, would the Clans of the Mountains of the Moon have different units than the Brave Companions or do you just want units for some sort of generic merc group?

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I think the Mercenary Companies should be like the ingame mercenary companies. Mercenaries, the normal ones (sellswords, freeriders etc.) should just be usual troops

Maybe

Freeriders (Light Cav-Hvy Cav) I'm thinking around Hobilar level (common) to Merc Knight level

Sellswords (Inf) Merc spearmen, Merc Crossbows

Clans of the MotM (Hvy Inf) Galloglaich, Pictish Spearmen etc.

Dothraki Mercs (Missile Cav) (I think there were Dothraki Cav mercs, weren't the Yunkai gonna bring some down on Dany) Turkopoles etc.

You can have Faith units such as Warrior's Sons and Poor Fellows for Crusade Mercs or maybe just as The Faith's Guild Troops. Rh'hllor (sp?) could have the Knights of the Hollow Hill and Queen's Men as their "Crusade" mercs.

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Not sure how the crusades/jihads are going to be depicted in the mod. There were some cool ideas to switch a crusade into Kingship claiming, but it's probably hardcoded and beyond our means..

Back to mercs, I think it's alright to have one unit per group.

The Clans can have a fierce barbarian horde with bad equip but good morale and stat, something Scottish I imagine? The Companions with their exotic backgrounds, maybe an versatile unit with ranged and melee capabilities. The other mercs from different cultures: Unsullied, self-explanatory. Lyseni and Myrish pirates, plain merc cogs with better stats. Norvoshi 2h axes; ordinary Tyroshi mercs; Summer Islander longbows and yeah maybe some Dothraki goodness.

Remember these exotics have very slow replenish and are only available from large harbor districts. Makes them even more strategically valuable. In contrast common sellswords and freeriders are dirtcheap and mostly available all-round, but with poor stats and morale.

Sidenote, STILL waiting for that despicable patch, shame on Sega and CA. Hope we can recruit some new blood (skinners especially) with the inevitable rush when it finally pops out. Meanwhile I think we can leave vanilla units as placeholders for now and concentrate on the other issues needing attention. BTW hows the mapping coming...

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Huh, the 1.2 leaked patch is out though. Want me to send it to ya? ;)

It's an AI improvement though. They actually fight reasonably well! OMG

As for exotic mercs, I was thinking, are we gonna have Dany's eastern conquests? If then, we can have Unsullied with rather high refresh rates at Astapor. So Dany can finally BUY Unsullied, not cheat the slavers out of them :D

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Actually Dany and the Others can be easily implemented like the Mongols and Timurids; just pop them up on say, Dragonstone at turn 200 with 5 full stacks and start steamrolling. Problem is we'll have to give them a roster too and the timeline would be stretched. For now the Free Cities only exist through mercs and ancilliaries I believe.

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Sad. I would have liked to play as Dany, or to play as another faction and imagine the look on her face as her plans turned to ashes. I wonder whether dragons are immune to wildfyre?

BTW, anyone seen M2TW Kingdoms. We could expand on the Byzantine unit for that (the really cool one with flamethrowers) into Pyromancer Guild units. If you haven't seen it, search on Google for the M2:TW Kingdoms trailer

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Are we talking Guild units or things like that yet? Or Guilds even? Rolling from the Wiki page, I can spot a few

Known Mercenary Companies

-The Brave Companions

-The Gallant Men

-The Golden Company

-The Second Sons

-The Stormcrows

Guilds

-Guild of the Bearded Priests - Norvorshi Axemen (along the lines of Galloglaich)

-Alchemist's Guild - Pyromancers (Byzantine flamethrowers :P )

-Sept of the Faith Militant - Warrior's Sons (have the sparrows and poor fellows as "crusade" units)

-Maester's Guild (the guild hq could be the Citadel - already exists in Oldtown) - Maesters (agent, increaeses pulbic health, law etc and maybe if there's a way, it can boost your character's stats?)

-Warlock's Guild - Warlocks of Qarth (small unit, fires some artiller projectile? but with a human model?)

Rebels

-Brigands and Broken Men

-Brotherhood Without Banners (Ned Dayne's faction) (maybe have htis as a faction, and if there's loyalty low generals, they join UnCat's faction)

-Brotherhood Without Banners (UnCat's faction) (emergent?)

I'm in school, so can't post any more.

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Wow, very nice guild ideas. I'm thinking some of them can offer bonuses by their buildings alone and/or offer good retinues like maesters, warlocks and so on. Until we get our hands on the expansion, Pyromancers will probably have to debut as retinues too. Other guilds will obviously provide unique units like the faith and bearded priests...granted I never saw much of them in Westeros. I hope there's a downside to armed faith as displayed in AFFC; guess it could raise religious unrest?

For rebels, Brigands and broken men will no doubt be taken from roster of the indigenous and its natural faction, so rebels in Dorne will be mostly spears, Riverlands will be full of Brotherhood men; archers and ragged swordsmen, and dogs maybe? The North will get a handful of wildling bands and deserted crows, and Arryns will of course attract alot of Clan gangs. Come to think of it, how will the clansmen be displayed in the mod? From the top of my head I say slap Tyrion with several hundred barbarians and put him somewhere near the Kingsroad, with either generals or retinues to make up for say Timett.

EDIT: Oh and I forgot, we can overhaul the assassin system with unique guilds like sorrowful men and Faceless. You get to recruit different assassins from them, or get good retinues. I guess a rather high threshold to get faceless but very good killers from the get-go. Replenish rates will have to be lowered though, don't want faceless men crowding Westeros, ruins the atmosphere. Or maybe once you accept the easier offered sorrowful men you can't get faceless anymore.

BTW any comments from modders on the Outrider taking over spies idea? Is it possible to increase enemy upkeep by "spying" on them/their supply train? If not then perhaps it's better to just rename them and train them as agents from military facilities...for now atleast.

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Are the actual team doing anything? Or are they waiting till the official 1.2 patch comes out? I would like even an alpha map to try out please! Thank you...

I reckon as Guilds go...

Maester's Outpost - Guildhouse

Ancillary - Maester (+1 Farming Output, +10% Tax income, +2 to Public Security) (They'd advise you etc, and turn your attention to suspicious going-ons...)

Maester's Guild - Master Guildhouse

Ancillary - Archmaester (+1 Command, +1 Farming Output, +20% Tax income, +2 to Public Security)

-5% Squalor

The Citadel - Guild HQ (prebuilt in Oldtown)

Anicllary - Grand Maester (=1 Command, +1 Farming Output, +30% Tax income, +2 to Public Security)

-5% Squalor

Guild of the Bearded Priests

Norvorshi Axemen (Units in pool according to tier level)

Guild - 1

Master Guild - 2

Guild HQ - 3

Incremental increases in chance of getting Norvorshi Bodyguard anicllar

G - 1%

MG - 2%

GHQ - 5%

(this is per turn btw)

More to come later...

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Good ideas Stormbringer, but these ideas should be brought to the Suggestions page. :)

As a side note, I believe that the team is at work, though they are hampered by a lack of graphics artists to work on new skins for units...

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I went through the descr_rebel_factions.txt and it seems we have two kinds: regional indigenous rebels and brigands/pirates that pop up everywhere. Here is an early draft for rebels rosters. Note I left out cavalry units in poorer regions for fear of balance problems---Hate it when pesky rebels could get feudal knights when everyone's still in stone age.

So, Non-Region based:

Brigands

Peasants

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Pirates

*Pirate Ship

*Eastern Pirates?

*Ironborn Reavers(operating on their own, like Euron)

Region-based:

Dorne

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Archers

Javelin

Smallfolk Javalin

Around and Beyond the Wall(As south as Mole Town)

Crow deserters from Nightwatch roster

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archers

Smallfolk Archers

Free Wildlings from Wildling roster

Smallfolk Sword

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

And some Others maybe? We're free to dream :P

Iron Islands

Smallfolk Axe

Smallfolk Spear

Thralls

Archers

The North

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

The Neck (Almost forgot this one...)

*Crannogmen

Lannister, Tyrell, Storm's End Lands(Rich lands, so they get better rebels to cope with)

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

Crossbowmen

Smallfolk Crossbowmen

Light Lance Cav

Smallfolk Spear Cav

Riverlands (Mix of broken men and BwBanners...dunno how to diversify though)

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

Crossbowmen

Smallfolk Crossbowmen

Eyrie(Plenty of clansmen and regular Andal rebels)

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

* Clansmen

Dragonstone Lands(Need a better name than this...)

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

*units are not in any rosters and need to be separately created, expect more from mercenaries.

And that's about it. Suggestions if you will.

PS. My earlier Wildling roster was lacking the Mammoths, which can obviously be easily depicted by the elephants from vanilla. Chariots were in RTW but don't know if exporting units is possible. Giants are one more issue..

Another thing, I think we can rename alot of units to have a ring to it. For example the Wildlings can have "Thenns" instead of "Medium Axes", or "Hornfoot Men" instead of Smallfolk Sword. Maybe even "Spearwives" for Smallfolk Spears, though we'll need some skinning :blush:

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I went through the descr_rebel_factions.txt and it seems we have two kinds: regional indigenous rebels and brigands/pirates that pop up everywhere. Here is an early draft for rebels rosters. Note I left out cavalry units in poorer regions for fear of balance problems---Hate it when pesky rebels could get feudal knights when everyone's still in stone age.

So, Non-Region based:

Brigands

Peasants

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Pirates

*Pirate Ship

*Eastern Pirates?

*Ironborn Reavers(operating on their own, like Euron)

Region-based:

Dorne

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Archers

Javelin

Smallfolk Javalin

Around and Beyond the Wall(As south as Mole Town)

Crow deserters from Nightwatch roster

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archers

Smallfolk Archers

Free Wildlings from Wildling roster

Smallfolk Sword

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

And some Others maybe? We're free to dream :P

Iron Islands

Smallfolk Axe

Smallfolk Spear

Thralls

Archers

The North

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

The Neck (Almost forgot this one...)

*Crannogmen

Lannister, Tyrell, Storm's End Lands(Rich lands, so they get better rebels to cope with)

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

Crossbowmen

Smallfolk Crossbowmen

Light Lance Cav

Smallfolk Spear Cav

Riverlands (Mix of broken men and BwBanners...dunno how to diversify though)

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

Crossbowmen

Smallfolk Crossbowmen

Eyrie(Plenty of clansmen and regular Andal rebels)

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

* Clansmen

Dragonstone Lands(Need a better name than this...)

Light Sword

Light Spear

Smallfolk Spear

Smallfolk Axe

Archer

Smallfolk Archer

*units are not in any rosters and need to be separately created, expect more from mercenaries.

And that's about it. Suggestions if you will.

PS. My earlier Wildling roster was lacking the Mammoths, which can obviously be easily depicted by the elephants from vanilla. Chariots were in RTW but don't know if exporting units is possible. Giants are one more issue..

Another thing, I think we can rename alot of units to have a ring to it. For example the Wildlings can have "Thenns" instead of "Medium Axes", or "Hornfoot Men" instead of Smallfolk Sword. Maybe even "Spearwives" for Smallfolk Spears, though we'll need some skinning :blush:

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On to Mercs...

Generally they'd have better attack and defense skills because of experience, but lower morale since they ARE mercenaries.

All regions:

Sellswords -Based on Light Swords(Leather, Sword, Shield) (Common) (Large)

Freeriders -Based on Smallfolk Spear (Padded, Spear, Shield) (Common) (Large)

Specific Regions:

Settlement with a Port:

Eastern Galleys -Mercenary ships from the Free cities, probably similar to eastern pirates. Slightly better than Westeros ships?

the Eyrie

Clansmen -same as the rebel kind.

the Neck

Crannogmen -not sure if there were any crannog mercs, maybe for Starks only? Or a sort of guide unit for foreign armies. OR...just make this a nasty version of the outrider agent. We never saw any crannog armies anyway.

Cities with huge harbors

Unsullied -probably the only pike unit with spearwall function in Westeros:TW, plus very high morale. They should kick some major ass. However, they're very expensive and rare.

Tyroshi Mercenaries -based on Dornish Medium Sword (Mail, Sword, Shield) (Uncommon) (Average)

Not much to say about this one, good stats but low morale as usual

Summer Islander Longbowmen -based on Retinue Archers from vanilla without the stakes. But they'd need skinning for the bright feathers and such.

Dothraki Mercenaries -based on vanilla Akinjis, a muslim mercenary Horse Archer unit. Although we never saw much Dothraki HA in Westeros, I figure we'll need these to balance the Dornish who have the only HA as buildable units.

That's all I can think of for now.

Storm: crannogmen rebels should only appear when the Neck is held by foreign armies, and they'd be pretty hospitable. The BwB idea sounds good, maybe we can base it on the Light Swordsmen from Andal rosters, with the suggested tweaks.

In vanilla rebellions are pretty random, sometimes generals will just turn grey on you for no reason with a full stack. Defects will have to be done through bribery I think. Hoping to actually see Boltons turn Lannister in-game, would make my day.

Alot of the posters seem to be busy recently. We've been through several silent periods since the mod sarted, but I think there are still plenty of guys reading this. We do need more posters and ideas though, these rosters are drafts at best and need much revision.

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For common mercs, I can add Hedge Knights (based off vanilla Merc Knights). I think the "Dothraki Screamers" would be a better name for Dothraki Mercs. Maybe we can have Bravos out of Braavos as a sword and buckler men sort of merc? Maybe very light unit with high damage and skill, but low armour and unit discipline so maybe impetous too. Unsullied I see as hoplites, and I remember reading somewhere that the old RTW formations were still in the game somewhere (I can't remember where, but if you dig on totalwar.org or twcenter.net you'll find it) so maybe that? I see Lyseni pirates (Saan's lot or rival to Saan's fleet) as a special merc for them.

IDEA: Have the FM and SM as guilds, with the FM with a higher starting secrecy/subtlety rating. Have inns boost mercenary refresh rate (I'm no modder, so I don't know how it can be done). I think vanilla assassins should either be brutally gimped or removed from the game altogether. Catspaws are cheap, but ineffetive (a la Balman Stokeworth and Joffery's footpad). Inns should just recruit spies and maybe boost mercenaries. Thoughts?

Crusade mercs for the factions

The Old Gods - orthodox (no priests, no crusades etc. only godswoods)

The Drowned God - (not sure, perhaps no crusade either. dunno how many religions are allowed)

Rh'llor (sp?) - Spawns Queen's Men units and shadowbinder ancillaries.

The Seven - Sparrows (as swords and stars I hope to become guild units - for a radical sept or something, or a sept of the faith militant)

BTW, @ Aeleron9, please comment on my takes on the lists you've hammered out. And yeah, crannogmen are unlikely to rebel, unless there is a enemy faction occupying the territory, in which case break out the rebel stacks :P . Defects will have to be within individual characters, a la Bolton bribery!

Thoughts, guys?

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Just here to make a few quick points:

Others will not be appearing in the mod til we have something concrete to go on from Martin.

Same with any sort of Targaryen invasion to Westeros. Dany's conquest of the eastern continent is more acceptable.

Also, we already discussed and decided crusades would be best to be removed, so crusade mercs would have no bearing.

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For common mercs, I can add Hedge Knights (based off vanilla Merc Knights). I think the "Dothraki Screamers" would be a better name for Dothraki Mercs. Maybe we can have Bravos out of Braavos as a sword and buckler men sort of merc? Maybe very light unit with high damage and skill, but low armour and unit discipline so maybe impetous too. Unsullied I see as hoplites, and I remember reading somewhere that the old RTW formations were still in the game somewhere (I can't remember where, but if you dig on totalwar.org or twcenter.net you'll find it) so maybe that? I see Lyseni pirates (Saan's lot or rival to Saan's fleet) as a special merc for them.

IDEA: Have the FM and SM as guilds, with the FM with a higher starting secrecy/subtlety rating. Have inns boost mercenary refresh rate (I'm no modder, so I don't know how it can be done). I think vanilla assassins should either be brutally gimped or removed from the game altogether. Catspaws are cheap, but ineffetive (a la Balman Stokeworth and Joffery's footpad). Inns should just recruit spies and maybe boost mercenaries. Thoughts?

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Woohoo, people are posting again! *victory dance!*

Along the lines of brigands, I was more thinking of the Saltpans raid group sort. Anyway, that was what I was after... We could have just common vanilla peasant brigands too.

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