Mrstrategy Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 What would the gold cloak performance in battle of of blackwater be like with slynt and officers still in charge?let's say Tyrion never replaced slynt and his handpicked successors or his arrest of slynt is countermanded by Cersei with baelish support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryeninkingslanding Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Probably much the same. much of the force was inexperienced, poorly trained, and just not very useful. the question would be how well would Tyrion be able to prepare them with Janos in charge, and what would have happened when Joffery retreated back to Maegors. the gold cloaks broke after that so we have to wonder how Janos would handle that. would he flee, or would he try to rally them. we know jaslin almost got them back but was shot in the throat with an arrow and then killed. perhaps there is some alternate universe where janos kept them together, but at that point it wouldn't really matter, for it was soon after that Tywin and the Tyrells arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 They would have given a competent performance and then when they broke they would have broken hard. Janos was an effective leader in the sense that the gold cloaks were definitely under his command and did as he said, even participating in massacre of the Stark men and arrest of Ned. They were still poorly trained, as @Targaryeninkingslanding said above, and Janos doesn't inspire actual loyalty in anyone so when they did break it would be bad. I also can't see Janos trying to rally people when the fight appeared lost. He'd be too busy looking for his own escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Agreed with all the above. If they were willing to shoot a man in the neck with an arrow whom actually merited respect and was deemed competent, Janos wouldn't have inspired any more loyalty or been any better in deploying / using them as a defending force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Slynt always had a wet finger in the air. Wouldn't have been surprised at all if he had sold out to Stannis before the battle, probably would have been more surprised if he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: Slynt always had a wet finger in the air. Wouldn't have been surprised at all if he had sold out to Stannis before the battle, probably would have been more surprised if he didn't. Stannis hated Slynt, he made that very clear at the Wall when Slynt seemed to be the winning candidate among the Nights Watch. In fact, if Slynt was still in the city when Stannis took over, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Stannis sent him to the Wall in chains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 hour ago, James Steller said: Stannis hated Slynt, he made that very clear at the Wall when Slynt seemed to be the winning candidate among the Nights Watch. In fact, if Slynt was still in the city when Stannis took over, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Stannis sent him to the Wall in chains. Stannis has shown absolutely no compunction when betraying his stated principals to this point if it looks like it will bring him closer to victory. His open contempt of Horpe and Massey and Saan suggest that he will hold his nose and work with whoever's available. Post war he would probably want to move on from Slynt, but I doubt very much that he would refuse to buy him off if it could have meant the gold cloaks opening some gates for him or whatever else they might do to undermine the city defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 21 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: Stannis has shown absolutely no compunction when betraying his stated principals to this point if it looks like it will bring him closer to victory. His open contempt of Horpe and Massey and Saan suggest that he will hold his nose and work with whoever's available. Post war he would probably want to move on from Slynt, but I doubt very much that he would refuse to buy him off if it could have meant the gold cloaks opening some gates for him or whatever else they might do to undermine the city defenses. Agreed. Stannis absolutely would have cut a deal with Slynt if it got him King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: Stannis has shown absolutely no compunction when betraying his stated principals to this point if it looks like it will bring him closer to victory. His open contempt of Horpe and Massey and Saan suggest that he will hold his nose and work with whoever's available. Post war he would probably want to move on from Slynt, but I doubt very much that he would refuse to buy him off if it could have meant the gold cloaks opening some gates for him or whatever else they might do to undermine the city defenses. Stannis has no gold at this point and I doubt Slynt’d sell out the Lannisters for promises. Even if he did - those promises needs to be better than what he’s already gotten (lordship and a huge castle) and I’m struggling to see Stannis make Slynt any sweeter deals. Hell, Stannis might distrust Slynt to the point of not even bothering to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 14 hours ago, Sigella said: Stannis has no gold at this point and I doubt Slynt’d sell out the Lannisters for promises. Even if he did - those promises needs to be better than what he’s already gotten (lordship and a huge castle) and I’m struggling to see Stannis make Slynt any sweeter deals. Hell, Stannis might distrust Slynt to the point of not even bothering to try. Kings Landing looked more likely than not to fall. Stannis didn't need gold, he would have had Slynt's life as a bargaining chip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 9 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: Kings Landing looked more likely than not to fall. Stannis didn't need gold, he would have had Slynt's life as a bargaining chip. I’m not so sure. Being walled in and having other defences, KL defenders has a big advantage. Then there’s Tywin with a big army about which might dissuade illoyalty too. Like even if Stannis takes KL his army can’t match Tywins, so selling out to Stannis isn’t smart iin the long run. Slynt might have tried to advise Joff to flee = lost his head or tried to bargain with Stannis get caught by Varys = lost his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 On 7/29/2021 at 8:16 AM, Mrstrategy said: What would the gold cloak performance in battle of of blackwater be like with slynt and officers still in charge?let's say Tyrion never replaced slynt and his handpicked successors or his arrest of slynt is countermanded by Cersei with baelish support The gc are not soldiers but more similar to that of a police force. Their defense of the city would have been competent. Their performance would have been competent for as long as they are the defenders. They will still lose. The odds are terribly against them. The city will fall but it would not be Slynt's fault. TV viewers were given an inaccurate version of Janos Slynt. The show destroyed Slynt's character to make that idiot, Jon Snow, look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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