NBA 2021 - 2022 BENched Simmons

[Slurktan]

3 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I actually think that the officiating needs to call some of the contact (not from Harden, but for some players who are actually driving to finish) on drives, as we don't want the officiating pendulum to swing over to the 90s/00s basketball violence set off by the Detroit Bad Boys or Riley's Knicks.

 

 

Riley's Knicks no.  Bad Boys fuck yes.

[briantw]

Personally, I’m absolutely loving the way the game is called this year.  I’d mostly stopped watching the NBA due to a combination of the Cavs being terrible and the games being so goddamn unfun to watch because it was just guys using bullshit tactics to get to the line.  Now there’s an actual flow to the games again and they seem to go by a hell of a lot quicker.  You can also actually watch guys play real physical defense again, which is refreshing.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

32 minutes ago, briantw said:

Personally, I’m absolutely loving the way the game is called this year.  I’d mostly stopped watching the NBA due to a combination of the Cavs being terrible and the games being so goddamn unfun to watch because it was just guys using bullshit tactics to get to the line.  Now there’s an actual flow to the games again and they seem to go by a hell of a lot quicker.  You can also actually watch guys play real physical defense again, which is refreshing.

I’m a little worried we’re going to see a lot of bigs get hurt this year, but other than that I agree. Get that foul hunting out of my life.

[briantw]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’m a little worried we’re going to see a lot of bigs get hurt this year, but other than that I agree. Get that foul hunting out of my life.

I just love that people like Harden and Young have to actually learn how to play basketball now.  They can't just leap into contact and get bailout calls.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 hours ago, Relic said:

Yeah, the recency bias is ridiculous. You literally couldn't touch MJ in the playoffs without sending him to the line. 

And he could probably punch you in the face and get away with it as well.

 

Anyways, surprised no one has linked ESPN's report of allegations of racism, sexism and promoting a general toxic work environment against Sarver. It will be interesting to see if he can survive this. Even if he can, good luck ever recruiting free agents and front office talent again.

[Argonath Diver]

I post fairly often over at realGM, and it's pretty shocking how much the general board's thread regarding the allegations skews to "Eh who really cares it some sexism and racism stuff, no biggie." If ESPN has over 70 testimonials detailing his unrepentant bigotry, it's a pretty damn big deal. Suns fans should be delighted since he's been one of the most woefully inept and careless owners in NBA history.

Regarding the fouls: I agree absolutely that it's incredibly refreshing. Harden was literally the most unwatchable player I've ever seen. It would only take me about three possessions watching him catch defenders' arms as he ripped his shot motion up. What an atrocious way to "play" the game.

My little corner of fandom has another old-school vibe going that's been a real treat to watch. My Bulls have DeRozan balling out from 10 to 18 feet and it's a delight. Part of that is that people just don't know how to defend a midrange shot anymore. He's only taken a  handful so far that I've seen and thought "Okay he should have passed or gone for a higher-percentage shot".  He just finds his spots, fools his defender, and gets a clean look over and over. Man it's been fun. Alas LaVine has only one working thumb and Vucevic looks like a replacement level player, but we have time.

[Proudfeet]

10 hours ago, Wilbur said:

But in general, Harden isn't that quick off the mark, and without the continuation shots and free throws manufactured by the sensitive officiating of the past five to seven years, he doesn't score enough to cover his other deficiencies.  

*Not getting into the 75 player discussion, but discussing the rule change in general with relation to Harden.

I read somewhere (think it was Kevin Pelton from ESPN) that even if you assume that he doesn't change his style of play, that he does his cynical foul baiting at the same rate and are now counted as missed shots, his shooting percentage is still way down from previous years. Of course, him not being able to leverage that threat of foul shots would also be a contributing factor to his declining shooting percentage, but on the face of it, I think its fair to give him more time and games to get into form as he claims.

Besides, its not like he's the only offender. He's just getting the attention because he's struggling.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

My little corner of fandom has another old-school vibe going that's been a real treat to watch. My Bulls have DeRozan balling out from 10 to 18 feet and it's a delight. Part of that is that people just don't know how to defend a midrange shot anymore. He's only taken a  handful so far that I've seen and thought "Okay he should have passed or gone for a higher-percentage shot".  He just finds his spots, fools his defender, and gets a clean look over and over. Man it's been fun. Alas LaVine has only one working thumb and Vucevic looks like a replacement level player, but we have time.

I think this might be an example of analytics being misused. Yes, technically the worst shot in the game is from the midrange, and the most efficient way to score is either from three, within three feet of the rime or from the line, but that's applied at the macro level. There are numerous players who are more effective in the midrange, and trying to get them to stop doing that and instead try something that they're not as good at can be counterproductive.  

[Relic]

A couple of weeks ago I advocated waiting to find out the details of the Sarver story before piling on him. 

Now that we know, yeah, this dude is a fucking toxic vile d-bag. I hope his minority owners are able to force him to sell the team. 

[David Selig]

Westbrook's trade looking more and more like a huge mistake by the Lakers. The fit with LeBron was always going to be horrible, but he also doesn't look capable of doing enough to get the Lakers wins even against bad teams consistently when LeBron is out. He can't get to the rim consistently because he's not the athlete he used to be, his shot is still poor, he is committing turnovers at an absurd rate, his passing is the worst I've ever seen from him and he plays matador defense. Meanwhile the players the Lakers traded for him are doing quite well on the Wizards. I really don't get what the Lakers were thinking with this trade, even if Westbrook could turn back the clock and get to let's say 90% of what he used to be in his prime, which was always very unlikely, he's a just a horrible fit next to LeBron and even in his prime underperformed in the playoffs. His contract has a massive negative value but they gave up decent assets to get it.

[Relic]

1 minute ago, David Selig said:

Westbrook's trade looking more and more like a huge mistake by the Lakers. 

That final possession last night was atrocious. Melo has the hot hand but Russ decides to jack up a shitty 3. Yikes. 

[David Selig]

14 minutes ago, Relic said:

That final possession last night was atrocious. Melo has the hot hand but Russ decides to jack up a shitty 3. Yikes. 

And that wasn't even his worst blunder in the last minute of the game, he had an idiotic turnover before that and a disastrous defensive possession when the Lakers were down two where he left his man completely alone under the basket to try to trap SGA 20 feet away who was already surrounded by other Lakers players.

[Maithanet]

50 minutes ago, David Selig said:

Westbrook's trade looking more and more like a huge mistake by the Lakers. The fit with LeBron was always going to be horrible, but he also doesn't look capable of doing enough to get the Lakers wins even against bad teams consistently when LeBron is out. He can't get to the rim consistently because he's not the athlete he used to be, his shot is still poor, he is committing turnovers at an absurd rate, his passing is the worst I've ever seen from him and he plays matador defense. Meanwhile the players the Lakers traded for him are doing quite well on the Wizards. I really don't get what the Lakers were thinking with this trade, even if Westbrook could turn back the clock and get to let's say 90% of what he used to be in his prime, which was always very unlikely, he's a just a horrible fit next to LeBron and even in his prime underperformed in the playoffs. His contract has a massive negative value but they gave up decent assets to get it.

I kind of want this year's Lakers to work, because I really enjoy watching Westbrook and Lebron.  But I've said all along that this trade made little sense, and everyone's fears about the aukward fit look to be coming true.  If this team is only so-so in the regular season, they're gonna be absolute trash in the postseason when people are playing harder defense and there's more exploitation of matchup problems (lot of questionable defenders out there). 

I still don't understand why the Lakers chose Westbrook over Heild.  Heild is an excellent fit with Lebron, he has a better contract, he's much younger and he could realistically play 3rd banana on a championship team.  Plus the Lakers wouldn't have had to trade as much to get him.  As it is, the entire roster of LAL looks like a bunch of guys who don't fit with Lebron or Davis or both. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I agree with the Westbrook/Lakers takes, but just to play devil’s advocate I’d argue we’re rushing to judgement here. It has only been nine games and we’ve seen other new star pairings take a bit to work out, especially when their skillsets overlap. The point of this trade was probably to allow LeBron to coast in the regular season so he’s as fresh as possible come the playoffs.

[Maithanet]

That's fair, it is possible that the talent and experience they have will come together.  Really we're just reiterating our criticisms from the offseason with only a tiny bit of additional data.  But those criticisms fit exactly what we're seeing.  If you design the kind of player who is a great fit with Lebron it is:

1.  Spaces the floor

2. Strong defense

3.  Effective offense without the ball

 

Now, they let several guys go who are decent/good fits for those needs.  Who did they bring in? 

Westbrook (terrible at floor spacing, mediocre defense, poor without the ball)

Rondo (terrible at floor spacing, poor defense, poor without the ball)

Howard (terrible at floor spacing, OK defense, good without the ball)

Anthony (good floor spacing, terrible defense, mediocre without the ball)

 

And in addition to not playing well with Lebron, they don't play well with each other either.  Westbrook + Rondo is a disaster. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Yeah, I agree with all of that and don’t think this is going to work out, and it’s good to point out that some of the roster moves don’t make a lot of sense not even factoring in the fit with LeBron. I’m not even sure what their go to line up is going to be in the playoffs to close out games, and Westbrook isn’t even a lock to be on it. Honestly if they make the Finals it will probably be because the West doesn’t have any dominate looking teams. The three best teams are in the East.

[WarGalley]

I'm going to hold off on judging the Lakers for the first half of the season. They have time to find a rhythm and the roster feels and looks new whenever I watch them play. 

7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Honestly if they make the Finals it will probably be because the West doesn’t have any dominate looking teams. The three best teams are in the East.

The East has looked more competitive than the West so far. The Warriors schedule has been soft to date but they have looked good overall. Over the next month, they'll play the Bulls, Raptors, 76ers and Suns (among others like Clippers and Nets). I'm very curious about those matchups and it will be must watch basketball for me. Even when Steph hasn't been playing well, the rest of the team has been picking up the slack. Gary Payton II, Bjelica, Juan Toscano-Anderson, Poole, Lee have all been contributing on one side of the floor or the other (or both) and it's been exciting to watch.

It will also be interesting to see how Kerr transitions Klay and Wiseman back into the rotation after Christmas. I fully expect Klay to want to murder teams single-handedly in his comeback but I'd worry about another injury if he gets too aggressive.

So all in all, I expect a deep playoff run by the Warriors with this roster barring injuries.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

40 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

So all in all, I expect a deep playoff run by the Warriors with this roster barring injuries.

The Warriors are far from done forming their roster. They can still package their two rookies, as well as Wiseman, and picks to land another star player. I think they're waiting to see if Klay looks good when he's back, and if so, they'll be trying to land a major deal. As a Wolves fan I'd actually be open to sending KAT to them for a sexy package, and his ability to stretch the floor would make them incredibly dangerous on the offensive end (not saying this is likely to happen, just throwing it out there). 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Cade Cunningham, das ist nicht gut:

Quote

GP	GS	MIN	PTS	OR	DR	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	AST/TO	PER
3	3	26.7	8.7	2.0	4.3	6.3	3.0	0.3	0.3	2.3	1.7	1.3	1.93

 

[DMC]

35 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Cade Cunningham, das ist nicht gut:

I mean, the counting stats aren't why his PER is so low.  It's that he's 7 for 39 from the field - 1 for 21 from 3.