NBA 2021 - 2022 BENched Simmons

[Maithanet]

4 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

Then there's the semi hopeful teams Denver, LAC, GSW which you covered. Murray and Kawhi are expected back earliest just before the playoffs. Klay hasn't played in two years.

I'm even less optimistic than you are, because I think that LAL is too old, Phoenix already lost and might not get the same year against better scouting and Utah feels like a bad matchup against the Nets, especially if Gobert still has zero moves with the ball. At this point we might as well hope Memphis has their three young players all have a breakout season.

If we are looking for teams that could beat a healthy or semi-healthy Brooklyn team in the playoffs, I think that the full list is LAL, GSW and MIL.  That's it.  No way that Kawhi or Murray are going to be fully back, and even then those teams probably aren't talented enough.  Utah is good, but I agree they match up badly with the Nets (they'd MUCH rather play the Bucks). 

For GSW, I fully expect Thompson to be shaky in the regular season, but by playoff time it's possible that the big 3 is back in force, and their young guys plus free agents should be able to provide much better depth than they had last year. 

LAL are old and have both injury and compatibility concerns.  BUT, veteran teams are dangerous in the playoffs, and Lebron has a good track record of winning championships when he's surrounded by enough talent.  I still question whether Heild playing third banana wouldn't have been preferable, but I'm not the GM.  But IF Davis and Lebron are healthy I actually think the Lakers pose a lot of problems for the Nets (although I fully admit the reverse is also true, as the Nets have so much more shooting than the Lakers do). 

MIL probably has the best chance of anyone of taking down the Brooklyn.  The Bucks are now fully battle tested and Giannis will be hunting those mismatches even more ruthlessly next year. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Nobody as of right now is beating the Nets if they're healthy. But GSW could challenge them if Klay returns and is okay (his offense should be fine, but he's probably not going to be close to what he was defensively) and they find a trade partner. Idk who they should target, but Wiseman, the two rookies and a pick or two should net a very good player, and I think they can make the math work and still keep Wiggins to have a new version of their death lineup. 

[Proudfeet]

7 hours ago, Maithanet said:

If we are looking for teams that could beat a healthy or semi-healthy Brooklyn team in the playoffs, I think that the full list is LAL, GSW and MIL.  That's it.  No way that Kawhi or Murray are going to be fully back, and even then those teams probably aren't talented enough.  Utah is good, but I agree they match up badly with the Nets (they'd MUCH rather play the Bucks). 

For GSW, I fully expect Thompson to be shaky in the regular season, but by playoff time it's possible that the big 3 is back in force, and their young guys plus free agents should be able to provide much better depth than they had last year. 

LAL are old and have both injury and compatibility concerns.  BUT, veteran teams are dangerous in the playoffs, and Lebron has a good track record of winning championships when he's surrounded by enough talent.  I still question whether Heild playing third banana wouldn't have been preferable, but I'm not the GM.  But IF Davis and Lebron are healthy I actually think the Lakers pose a lot of problems for the Nets (although I fully admit the reverse is also true, as the Nets have so much more shooting than the Lakers do). 

MIL probably has the best chance of anyone of taking down the Brooklyn.  The Bucks are now fully battle tested and Giannis will be hunting those mismatches even more ruthlessly next year. 

Kawhi hasn't been fully back since Zaza. 

I just don't have confidence in LAL. At this point, if they make it it has to be up to AD. LeBron may be able to put them on his back for a quarter and that's it. I'll put more confidence in a semi healthy LAC.

Denver has a big hole exposed by CP3. Even if healthy, they'd have to make it a scoring race. Or maybe Malone works something out. They probably have no chance unless Michael Porter suddenly becomes KD.

Agree that MIL has the best chance, but they'd need their three stars to make another leap, what with having some players leave and taking advantage of an injured Brooklyn team. There's a good chance they make a leap with the confidence gained from winning, but it might not be enough.

Miami could count on Bam improving further and maybe Herro and Oladipo rounding into form. Maybe if we squint hard enough, there's a chance?

Philly has the team I like best on paper, but we all saw what happened in practice. 

I don't like to wish injury on anybody, so I'm taking this time to brace myself for Brooklyn winning next year. 

[Maithanet]

12 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

Kawhi hasn't been fully back since Zaza. 

Kawhi was pretty damn good for Toronto. 

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I just don't have confidence in LAL. At this point, if they make it it has to be up to AD. LeBron may be able to put them on his back for a quarter and that's it. I'll put more confidence in a semi healthy LAC.

I can understand questioning LAL.  They could completely fall apart with injuries and incompatability.  But that said, they also could manage everyone's minutes in the regular season and then put it together in a playoff run. 

But what have you seen from LAC that gives you confidence in them?  Even when George and Kawhi were both healthy they flamed out in 2020 and then struggled against the Doncic and nobody Mavs. 

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Agree that MIL has the best chance, but they'd need their three stars to make another leap, what with having some players leave and taking advantage of an injured Brooklyn team. There's a good chance they make a leap with the confidence gained from winning, but it might not be enough.

Miami could count on Bam improving further and maybe Herro and Oladipo rounding into form. Maybe if we squint hard enough, there's a chance?

Philly has the team I like best on paper, but we all saw what happened in practice. 

 

Confidence and playoff experience are worth a lot.  I think the Bucks will be a harder out next year than they were this year.

So many things have to go right for Miami to run the table.  Yes, maybe Herro+Robinson take another step, maybe Oladipo gets healthy again and maybe all the pieces fit like 2020 only better.  But I think expecting all those things to go right is not likely.

Philly is not going to be relevant this year. 

[Proudfeet]

10 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Kawhi was pretty damn good for Toronto. 

Played like an All-Star, sure. But I wouldn't call him an MVP frontrunner.

11 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I can understand questioning LAL.  They could completely fall apart with injuries and incompatability.  But that said, they also could manage everyone's minutes in the regular season and then put it together in a playoff run. 

But what have you seen from LAC that gives you confidence in them?  Even when George and Kawhi were both healthy they flamed out in 2020 and then struggled against the Doncic and nobody Mavs. 

That's just how little confidence I have in LAL. I don't think it is out of the question, but its entirely on AD's shoulders. And well, unless you can turn back time, I don't think managing minutes is going to do anything for Carmelo and Gasol.

Anyway, LAC has depth in wing defenders. That's a plus point. And perplexing as their loss against Denver was, their struggle against the Mavs were half self-inflicted from putting Kawhi in the left corner on defense and Morris/Zubac on Luka. They need to work on getting a consistent/coherent offense if they want to get anywhere though.

22 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

So many things have to go right for Miami to run the table.  Yes, maybe Herro+Robinson take another step, maybe Oladipo gets healthy again and maybe all the pieces fit like 2020 only better.  But I think expecting all those things to go right is not likely.

Philly is not going to be relevant this year. 

I didn't think so either. That's just what they require to get into the conversation. 

I think Philly is done. I read somewhere that apparently Simmons wants out and is not answering calls from the team, including Embiid. Not sure how reliable the source is, but it was linked from The Ringer.

I like the individual match ups on paper though. You put Embiid on Griffin, Simmons on KD, Harris on Harris, Thybulle on Kyrie, Green on Harden, and try to win defensively and score in transition/through Embiid, put Curry in against their bench. But they failed against Atlanta, so all of that is moot. 

[Maithanet]

19 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

I like the individual match ups on paper though. You put Embiid on Griffin, Simmons on KD, Harris on Harris, Thybulle on Kyrie, Green on Harden, and try to win defensively and score in transition/through Embiid, put Curry in against their bench. But they failed against Atlanta, so all of that is moot. 

Even in that scenario, I really don't see it.  Brooklyn has the better player in 4 of those 5 matchups.

[Proudfeet]

7 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Even in that scenario, I really don't see it.  Brooklyn has the better player in 4 of those 5 matchups.

My thinking was that they hold their own on defense, and that leads to them getting transition buckets. Then Embiid makes up for their offensive deficiencies and does the heavy lifting in the half court offense when required. And Simmons having a nightmare postseason doesn't mean that that was his default. 

_

Also, I think that Philly has the better Harris. They both disappointed last playoffs though.

[Slurktan]

2 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

My thinking was that they hold their own on defense, and that leads to them getting transition buckets. Then Embiid makes up for their offensive deficiencies and does the heavy lifting in the half court offense when required. And Simmons having a nightmare postseason doesn't mean that that was his default. 

_

Also, I think that Philly has the better Harris. They both disappointed last playoffs though.

Unfortunately you don't really get a lot of transition buckets in the playoffs again good teams.  The refs allow a lot more on defense.

[DireWolfSpirit]

The summer league is bizarrely short. 5-6 games whatever's, not sure it's worth the effort if that's the extent of competition?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

The summer league is bizarrely short. 5-6 games whatever's, not sure it's worth the effort if that's the extent of competition?

Tell that to the 4-0 Timberwolves! 

I mean, that's probably as good as it's going to get this year. 

[Wilbur]

It is curious and interesting to see that the Clippers apparently want to have Eric Bledsoe more than Patrick Beverly on their team.

[Proudfeet]

9 hours ago, Wilbur said:

It is curious and interesting to see that the Clippers apparently want to have Eric Bledsoe more than Patrick Beverly on their team.

Looks like a money saving deal, especially since they have Reggie Jackson in that spot now anyway. Bledsoe isn't cheap, mind, but he's cheaper than three players and that $5m difference in salary is worth $30m after luxury tax is factored in.

The Grizzlies are probably wanting to move them on as they did Iguodala. Even if they can't find a trade they probably have cap space to spare for the time being before their rookie extensions kick in. 

[Rhom]

Edit:  Wrong thread.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

So Simmons has officially demanded a trade and won't report to camp. Not shocking, but that further drops his value. Last I heard the Wolves were really the only team strongly pursuing him (which should be a bad sign), but maybe, just maybe, he can be got without losing one of our four best players. At this point a few firsts and players that match his contract value will be enough, but we'd probably need to get a third involved to take the picks and send Philly a player they can accept.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Eta: Double post sorcery!

[DireWolfSpirit]

2 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

So I think my Pistons are slated for their first preseason game Oct 6th.

Really excited to start the Cade era.

Over at RealGm one of the posters(Electric Mayhem) started a thread about how our G.M. has completely replaced the roster in 9.5 months.

I like the direction we are heading, the new guys are all young with outsized wingspans. They can all switch and cover multiple positions defensively and we will have improved outside shooting/floor spacing.

Everything going forward will be about building the team around Cade.

From the RealGm thread-

Troy Weaver was hired in June, 2020 and the offseason started in November with this roster:

PG: Bruce Brown, Derrick Rose, Brandon Knight, Jordan Bone
SG: Luke Kennard, Svi Mykhailuk, Langston Galloway, Khyri Thomas
SF: Tony Snell, Louis King Jr.,
PF: Blake Griffin, Sekou Doumbouya, John Henson
C: Christian Wood, Thon Maker

Now that Sekou has been shipped out, Killian Hayes is the longest tenured Piston. Here's where the roster is now:

PG: Killian Hayes, Cory Joseph, Saben Lee
SG: Cade Cunningham, Hamidou Diallo, Frank Jackson, Rodney McGruder
SF: Saddiq Bey, Josh Jackson, Isaiah Livers, Jamorko Pickett
PF: Jerami Grant, Trey Lyles, Luka Garza
C: Isaiah Stewart, Kelly Olynyk
 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Interesting Cade is listed at SG. That's a smart call. I don't think he has the playmaking ability to be a true PG, but can be a solid secondary ballhandler/creator. 

[DMC]

14 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Interesting Cade is listed at SG. That's a smart call. I don't think he has the playmaking ability to be a true PG, but can be a solid secondary ballhandler/creator. 

I don't think it really matters if you call Hayes the 1 and Cunningham the 2 or vice versa.

[DireWolfSpirit]

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Interesting Cade is listed at SG. That's a smart call. I don't think he has the playmaking ability to be a true PG, but can be a solid secondary ballhandler/creator. 

That's only because mgt. hasn't completely given up yet on Hayes at PG. If he cannot develop an outside shot expect him to be relegated to the 2nd unit.

Cade can play offball or playmake, Killian not so much at this point. The roster is really being developed as "positionless" basketball where the guys can slide between multiple roles eventually.

[DireWolfSpirit]

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

I don't think it really matters if you call Hayes the 1 and Cunningham the 2 or vice versa.

Exactly, he (Cade) can play any role from point to foward, we want the ball in his damn hands.