Books where protagonist is the most morally vile character

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Morte said:

Oh, and there is of course

Jonathan Littell's novel The Kindly Ones

 O good lordessa! You may have won this one!

Author doesn't miss a trick -- author even gives him a twin sister with whom he committed incest -- shades of Nabokov!  Also shades of Roth, if one can believe that .... I confess to not being able to make it through the whole thing, skipping large parts, skimming more.

 

[Morte]

18 hours ago, Zorral said:

I confess to not being able to make it through the whole thing, skipping large parts, skimming more.

 

I, too, have to confess I still have to finish the thing, the first time I managed to read just about ~130 pages, now - some attempts later - I am half way through, let's see if I manage it this time. To my defence I always start at the beginning...

It is really the most horrible brilliant book I have ever read, bonus points for getting his historical facts right, all of them (except of the protagonist's non-existence of course).

Did you read it in English? Because I have looked the book up whether it was even translated into English before posting it, and frankly I find the translation to lacking in intonation compared to the French original or the German translation.

[Zorral]

51 minutes ago, Morte said:

Did you read it in English

I did read it in English.  If I recall correctly -- this was years ago already! -- there was a lot of discussion that the English translation was often, at best, clunky, and often inaccurate, and sometimes felt sloppy.  Nevertheless, I think that wouldn't have changed the sheer horror of it all.

Edited to add: Evil protagonists floated into the hallucinatory period of my covid booster reaction this weekend; I was in an endless loop attempting to recall an entirely evil literary female protagonist (as opposed to animated Disney Cruellas) and couldn't.  Unsympathetic at times certainly Becky Sharpe and Austen's Emma, but they aren't evil, and they aren't 100% unredeemed, and we understand them.  Nurse Ratchett of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest isn't actually the protagonist; she exists to be punched down by the protagonist.  But surely there are quite a few, but the brain isn't coming up with them at the moment. 

What else floated into the hallucination period was Norman Mailer's narrator-protagonist of Ancient Evenings.  But even he is redeemed by the sheer creative energy that explodes out of him -- just as many of Mailer's fairly vile works are redeemed by the author's vitality that refuses to allow anything to block it. But then, surely others could see this differently. 

 

[Morte]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Nevertheless, I think that wouldn't have changed the sheer horror of it all.

I think it's the other way around: The bits I have read in English and compared to the other two languages felt less horrifying and dreadful.

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

attempting to recall an entirely evil literary female protagonist

Hum... can't recall one either (Medea, too, doesn't qualify), there must be some, but I simply can't remember right now.

[Knight of Ashes]

On 8/1/2021 at 10:23 AM, IFR said:

 

Even though this is a lit thread, I welcome movie suggestions too.

Macbeth. (Play and any movie version)

[Zorral]

Nah.  Again we are prompted into sympathy by the guilt and remorse.

Iago -- no, but he's not the protagonist.  I'm probably a minority throughout time, in that I find Othello himself insufferable.  Still, what Iago does is not only wantonly cruel -- it is treachery against his lord commander, and thus against the Venetian Republic-Empire, the state on the behalf of which they are fighting the Ottoman Empire.

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

6 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Nah.  Again we are prompted into sympathy by the guilt and remorse.

Iago -- no, but he's not the protagonist.  I'm probably a minority throughout time, in that I find Othello himself insufferable.  Still, what Iago does is not only wantonly cruel -- it is treachery against his lord commander, and thus against the Venetian Republic-Empire, the state on the behalf of which they are fighting the Ottoman Empire.

 

This was my contention with a bunch of works mentioned earlier in the thread, the protagonist wasn't actually the most vile character.  Othello is horrible but he's no Iago.  A bunch of people said Blood Meridian, which fails to meet the OP's criteria for the same reason.   I forget what the others were.

[Knight of Ashes]

17 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Nah.  Again we are prompted into sympathy by the guilt and remorse.

Iago -- no, but he's not the protagonist.  I'm probably a minority throughout time, in that I find Othello himself insufferable.  Still, what Iago does is not only wantonly cruel -- it is treachery against his lord commander, and thus against the Venetian Republic-Empire, the state on the behalf of which they are fighting the Ottoman Empire.

 

Richard III

[Zorral]

It seems the English themselves didn't have much sympathy for Richard III, by and large. Plus, of course, one would never have portrayed him with any redeeming moments since he was replaced by the glorious First Tudor.  Propaganda was relentless out of Henry VII's court about the vileness of the last Plantagenets, in contrast to the purity and chivalry and good lordship of the King Arthur come again, in the guises of his great descendant Henry VII.

But really, it did seem a lot of England did not like Richard.  His sworn retainers and lords betrayed him shamefully, though, in terms of their sworn oaths.  So much for chivalry's honor.

 

 

[HoodedCrow]

Richard the Third of RL history was not a nice fellow. There is a society bent on rehabilitating his reputation. I saw one of them denied that he had a hunchback, right until they found his bones with scoliosis, ( dna verified) under a parking lot. He wasn’t nice in the play either.

[Zorral]

Ya, I remember that.

Recall how very un-nice Richard II (Ben Whishaw) was too, in the Hollow Crown trilogy. Tudors definitely do not like those too-near in time Richards.  Ha!

[HoodedCrow]

Richard Rich was not nice either, but he cleaned up. He features in “ A Man for all Seasons”.

The Tudors were a mixed bag. The worst was Henry VIII. 

[Zorral]

Henry VII was equally awful, at the very least, as his kid. Except to his queen, whom he adored, IIRC.  And he honored his mom.  Ha! H VII spied on everyone, tortured many, imprisoned even more, exiled many, used every legal and illegal means to squeeze money, land and property out of subjects, which is why VIII had such a fat treasury when he ascended -- which he then squandered in various ways including wars. Then he resorted to the secret spy lists and records that he'd sworn he'd destroyed, and did all the things VII did.  But VII did keep the country stable, which it wanted very much. At least both of them, like Elizabeth, had a good eye for good administrative servants.  When one does contrast the Tudor dynasty, short as it was, with the utterly feckless, doomed and hopeless equally short Stewart Dynasty, the Tudors (other than Mary) come off better.  Mostly.  Those stupid wars of VIII ... not to mention the Dissolution and Plundering of the Church -- filled his empty coffers though!

 

[Clueless Northman]

44 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Then he resorted to the secret spy lists and records that he'd sworn he'd destroyed

And old trick. Caligula did the same, according to Suetonius - iirc, claiming he destroyed the list or evidences of those who conspired against both his parents, except of course it wasn't true, and he executed them all later on. My memory is hazy but I wouldn't be surprised if another Emperor did the same, be it Tiberius or Domitianus.

Now of course if we look at English kings to spot villains, there's a lot of them, beginning with some bastard from Normandy...

[TheLastWolf]

Jordan Belfort's The Wolf of Wall Street?

Just read it after a 3rd rewatch

[SeanF]

14 hours ago, Zorral said:

I did read it in English.  If I recall correctly -- this was years ago already! -- there was a lot of discussion that the English translation was often, at best, clunky, and often inaccurate, and sometimes felt sloppy.  Nevertheless, I think that wouldn't have changed the sheer horror of it all.

Edited to add: Evil protagonists floated into the hallucinatory period of my covid booster reaction this weekend; I was in an endless loop attempting to recall an entirely evil literary female protagonist (as opposed to animated Disney Cruellas) and couldn't.  Unsympathetic at times certainly Becky Sharpe and Austen's Emma, but they aren't evil, and they aren't 100% unredeemed, and we understand them.  Nurse Ratchett of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest isn't actually the protagonist; she exists to be punched down by the protagonist.  But surely there are quite a few, but the brain isn't coming up with them at the moment. 

What else floated into the hallucination period was Norman Mailer's narrator-protagonist of Ancient Evenings.  But even he is redeemed by the sheer creative energy that explodes out of him -- just as many of Mailer's fairly vile works are redeemed by the author's vitality that refuses to allow anything to block it. But then, surely others could see this differently. 

 

I think Becky Sharpe qualifies as evil.  Her arc concludes with her poisoning her lover in order to gain a payout from life assurance.

[sologdin]

evil literary female protagonist

to the extent that they constitute author eidolons, all ayn rand novels.

[HoodedCrow]

Ayn Rand was pretty bad herself. As well, she was a terrible writer. The Simpson’s did a little spoof on that.

[Zorral]

Whether or not Becky Sharpe did kill Jos, remains rather ambiguous though clearly many figures within the novel's fictional universe believe she was more than capable of it. OTOH people do believe of women in general who don't conform to the models of submissive and docile femininity they are more than capable of the most heinous of behaviors.   Good writing!

 

https://victorianweb.org/art/illustration/thackeray/67.1.html'

[karaddin]

The discussion of Thomas Covenant reminded me of another Donaldson series that I think at least partially qualifies - The Gap Cycle. Angus Thermopyle is utterly repugnant and I'm pretty sure he's one of the point of views, although I only read it once and it was a long time ago.

There are other antagonistic forces that are more dangerous on a large scale, but I don't remember it ever justifying him or rendering him not a villain.