UK Politics - Put your mask in the bin and hug your granny

[The Anti-Targ]

This is not the project fear you are looking for

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IHS Markit | Food and Agricultural Policy Weekly Briefing

National Pig Association chief executive Zoe Davies says 70,000 pigs are already backed up on farms, with this
number rising by 15,000 a week due to processors reducing throughput as a result of labor shortages. If
Government fails to take action, she says perfectly healthy pigs will end up being destroyed and wasted.

“We are expecting an exodus of pig keepers from this year into next, as they have simply had enough – for
almost a year now they have been losing money. We already only supply 40% of the pork eaten here – is it right
that we should be importing more from the EU. the ultimate irony of Brexit,” Davies explains.

Of course Brexit did not mean the govt had to turn off the worker immigration tap quite as hard and fast as they did. But keeping those damned foreigners out was a key platform of Brexit.

No link sorry. It's an email I get at work once a week.

[Heartofice]

Brexit so disasterous it causes trucker shortage in the US and Asia. ( except if you look at all the other contributing factors like the pandemic, driving conditions for drivers, backlog of certification, sudden increase in demand after opening up, IR35 idiocy, decreasing numbers of drivers after retirement etc)

Global shortage of drivers

 

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The UK, which has an estimated 100,000-driver shortage, has been hit particularly hard not only by the departure of drivers from EU countries because of Brexit and the pandemic, but also by reform to tax legislation introduced this year that drastically reduced incomes for agency workers. Pandemic-driven backlogs at testing centres have hindered the flow of new drivers, with the UK logistics sector pushing for a stop-gap solution of drivers from EU countries being given temporary visas
Still, there are practical difficulties. “Even if we were allowed to recruit drivers from the EU, there’s a shortage of drivers there as well,” said Rod McKenzie, head of policy at the Road Haulage Association. “The only place that doesn’t have a significant shortage of drivers is Africa.”

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“Increasingly, global trade is becoming more complex, consumers want quicker deliveries, and simply there are not enough skilled HGV drivers to handle this demand around the world,” Newton said

[polishgenius]

It's weird how the article you link to apparently prove that Brexit isn't the cause of the driver shortage says that Brexit is a cause of the driver shortage, just not the only one. 

[Heartofice]

Well that’s the point, it’s one of many causes, or more precisely, the mismanagement of certain elements of brexit, is one of many causes. But everyone looking around for proof of the Brexit apocalypse seems to wilfully ignore all the other elements at play, and the facts that these issues are affecting a lot of other countries for whom Brexit has no effect. There is very big over playing of the Brexit effect.

[polishgenius]

Yeah, that's fairly typical, Brexiteers looking for reasons why damaging things happening isn't their fault. Do the thing next where you blame it all on the EU. Maybe you can say it's just punishing the UK for leaving to not round up their drivers and send them over to us?  

[Heartofice]

Just now, polishgenius said:

Yeah, that's fairly typical, Brexiteers looking for reasons why damaging things happening isn't their fault. Do the thing next where you blame it all on the EU. Maybe you can say it's just punishing the UK for leaving to not round up their drivers and send them over to us?  

Nah, this is just in response to page after page of wailing about Brexit, which is fairly typical of remainers, looking for reasons why everything is caused by Brexit.

[The Anti-Targ]

In the pig industry case it's not just HGV drivers, it's also workers in the slaughter and processing sector (possibly even in farming). It takes a lot to train up competent butchers, and it is likely (esp in the slaughter side) a much harder job to motivate people into taking up. Driving almost anyone can do, and it's just an upskill to get to HGV. Slaughtering and butchery does not really have a common base skill that most people have.

[Derfel Cadarn]

56 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Nah, this is just in response to page after page of wailing about Brexit, which is fairly typical of remainers, looking for reasons why everything is caused by Brexit.

Given that many of the drivers who were delivering in the UK have stopped ans now remain in the EU due to all the Brexit red tape, it’s clear that Brexit has, for the UK, exacerbated what would have been a problem.

Interesting that NI hasn’t had the same problems as the other UK nations, being still linkes to the EU.

[Which Tyler]

HOI would have a much better point if anyone had claimed that the driver shortage was entirely due to Brexit - which is a straw man argument.

This country has amongst the worst working conditions for low-paid workers in Europe - with long-distance drivers having a particularly shitty time of things. What we did have was a relatively high minimum wage, and lots of immigration for poorer countries to do those jobs anyway.
Brexit has meant that we've cut off the stream of low-paid workers from Europe, but haven't yet ramped up a new stream of low-paid workers from Asia, S America and Africa.
On top of that, there's also a pandemic and A] plenty of people are being pinged and told not to work (much less currently as vaccinated contacts are allowed to work - because... well, that's just not sensible) B] plenty of people have reassessed their work-life balance and working conditions since furlough.

Brexit is not the sole cause of the shortages of low-paid workers (and I've not seen anyone who's claimed it that way - which is not to say that people haven't without me seeing or noticing), but it is a major one; its also the one difference that the UK has to the rest of the world with shortages.
I suspect that it's more an issue that everyone knows about the pandemic, everyone knows about the pingdemic (blech!); but Brexit gets ignored in the MSM as a cause at all, despite being the difference between, for example, France with driver shortages, but no rotting fruit & veg, no rotting hog-corpses, no medical blood tests being postponed, no unwiped arses in nursing homes (well, no more than before, as far as I can tell) and no (or way, way less) shortages on the shelves, and Britain, with all of the above.

 

Going by memory, and not hunting for sources (anyone else can feel free to correct me if they have sources) - isn't the UK down by something like 90-100k drivers? with about 70k of them being Europeans who've left the country as we've made it even more of a PITA than it already was with worse working conditions, all whilst reducing pay (apparently, lorry drivers only get paid when they're moving, not when they're stuck for 3 days waiting to process paperwork).
If the likes of France and Germany (similar country sizes) are down by 20-30k drivers, that would be a driver shortage, and get brought up in articles like those HOI posted. But it's nothing like the extent of 90-100k shortage.

[Heartofice]

31 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Interesting that NI hasn’t had the same problems as the other UK nations, being still linkes to the EU.

HGV: Haulage industry warns of NI lorry driver shortage
 

29 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

HOI would have a much better point if anyone had claimed that the driver shortage was entirely due to Brexit - which is a straw man argument

Nice gaslighting...

 

On 8/24/2021 at 10:32 AM, Derfel Cadarn said:

Brexit; the gift that keeps (not) giving.

MacDonalds has run out of milkshakes in the UK (apart from N Ireland of course).

 

On 9/1/2021 at 9:58 AM, Derfel Cadarn said:

Wetherspoons running out of some brands of beer due to driver shortage.

Brexit karma, motherfuckers!

https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/31/beer-shortages-at-wetherspoons-after-brexit-and-covid-hit-supply-chains-15184924/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

Funny how the Northern Ireland Nandos and MacDonalds haven’t run out of chicken and milkshakes, like the other UK nations...

Is there maybe a difference in how NI and the other UK nations deal with trade...?

Brexit is not the only issue, but it is a definite issue. 

When can we expect to see some of these Brexit benefits we were promised?

 

[Which Tyler]

32 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Nice gaslighting...

Did you read what you quoted?

@Derfel Cadarn Do you mean to say that Brexit is the cause, the whole cause and the only cause of shortages during a global pandemic? Or would you suggest that someone is claiming your view to be something that it isn't, in order to bash the veiw that they've constructed on your behalf?

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Did you read what you quoted?
 

Yes you said I’d have a better point if anyone was claiming that the shortage was entirely down to Brexit. And then I posted up 2 comments where someone linked a shortage to Brexit. They didn’t say ‘Brexit, the gift that partly keeps giving’ or ‘Partly Brexit Karma’. So honestly , please don’t pretend those comments are suggesting anything other than Brexit is the cause for the shortage. It doesn’t matter if you try and get Derfal to backtrack them or add more to them now, they are already out there and we all know what was meant by them. 

[Which Tyler]

OK - so it's just a bad faith argument, and you can't accept that Derfel is accepting of things that everyone knows, and just didn't feel the need to repeat them. good to know

[Filippa Eilhart]

so one thing about Brexit and shortages is that the EU actively tried to maintain shipping corridors throughout the border closures [within EU], introducing certain privileges to lorry drivers such as no need to test or quarantine, and the obligation of the Member States to keep the borders open to cargo traffic.

[Heartofice]

14 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

OK - so it's just a bad faith argument, and you can't accept that Derfel is accepting of things that everyone knows, and just didn't feel the need to repeat them. good to know

It’s bad faith to say I’m strawmanning when I’ve really only seen one person, Wert give an attempt an even handed explanation of the shortage stuff over the past few pages. Saying that nobody is claiming it’s not purely about Brexit is really not good faith either. 

[Spockydog]

Lol. The fucking neck on it.

You are the emperor of bad faith debate.

[Derfel Cadarn]

11 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It’s bad faith to say I’m strawmanning when I’ve really only seen one person, Wert give an attempt an even handed explanation of the shortage stuff over the past few pages. Saying that nobody is claiming it’s not purely about Brexit is really not good faith either. 

Brexit is having an impact, exacerbating the problem that is already there, that had been mitigated somewhat over the years by EU workers!

That NI is not having the same problems as rest of the UK is indicative of this.

It is you who is being disingenuous by trying to wave it off as a worldwide problem or covid, when other countries, whike having drover shortages, are NOT seeing the same shortages.

Per my previous post, what benefits eill Brexit bring, and when can we expect to see some?

[Heartofice]

24 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Brexit is having an impact, exacerbating the problem that is already there, that had been mitigated somewhat over the years by EU workers!

That NI is not having the same problems as rest of the UK is indicative of this.

It is you who is being disingenuous by trying to wave it off as a worldwide problem or covid, when other countries, whike having drover shortages, are NOT seeing the same shortages.

Per my previous post, what benefits eill Brexit bring, and when can we expect to see some?

Well now you are saying it is exacerbating the problem, that wasn’t how you stated it before though. And the extent to that exacerbation is really not clear, given that there are clearly a lot of other factors at play.

As for Northern Ireland , could their lack of chicken problems be to do with the fact that one of Nandos leading poultry suppliers has production in Northern Ireland? And that the country is really far smaller than the rest of the UK?  Just another reason why it isn’t very clear. 
 

And yeah it’s not surprising that the UK would be more affected by driver shortages than elsewhere, given we are an island that heavily depends of driven freight. On top of that much of the issues we are seeing are not inevitable consequences of Brexit, but poor planning and backlogs that could have been anticipated a bit better. 
 

Not all doom and gloom though, the employment market does seem to be working well if the shortage leads to pay rises for drivers

Driver shortage: 'I got a big pay rise overnight'

[Spockydog]

Johnson appears to be charging full speed into into another parliamentary rebellion, this time over his National Insurance tax rise for social care.

Starmer has already said Labour will oppose it, and there are plenty of Tories apparently ready to do the same.

This is going to be fun.