UK Politics - Put your mask in the bin and hug your granny

[Mentat]

12 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I just saw that the Greens and SNP have shacked up, and Indyref2 has been put down in writing in the pre-nup. So it's definitely happening then. But what comes next if there is a narrow yes vote win (or even a substantial win really)? Westminster still has to allow actual independence right?

Doesn't the UK Parliament have to agree to Indyref2 being held in the first place? Would they?

[dog-days]

On the one hand, Conservatives are traditionally very unionist. On the other hand, getting rid of Scotland could help secure another generation of Tory governments...

[mormont]

23 minutes ago, Mentat said:

Doesn't the UK Parliament have to agree to Indyref2 being held in the first place? Would they?

For a referendum with a legally binding result, yes, the UK government have to consent and Johnson has said he will refuse to do so. But the Scottish government would in that case be under enormous internal pressure to have an 'indicative vote' instead, and refusing to recognise that result would - while legally technically completely correct - be politically quite difficult. It would kick the can a bit further down the road at best. If the SNP/Greens continue to win elections after that, at some point it gets impossible to hold the line.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

Frankly, if it's 52-48 in favour of independence, I don't see how Johnson or any of his goons will have a leg to stand on.

I mean, they wantonly destroyed the Union on similar numbers, so what the fuck is he going to say?

 

 

Are you suggesting he would not be willing to be a total hypocrite and just hand wave the hypocrisy by saying "it's not the same thing"?

The immediate response will be "it's not happening", clearly. The Tories aren't going to lose seats in Scotland for telling the SNP and Greens to naff off, what few seats they have are probably populated by a unionist majority, and they aren't going to lose seats in England by telling them to naff off with their "meaningless independence vote".

 

[Spockydog]

Oh, will nobody think of John Cleese. Poor lamb seems very upset that old white men can't say the N word on telly anymore.

Whatever you think of Cleese, whatever you do, don't say he's no longer funny. 'Cos the racist old cunt will probably sue you. And because this is Britain, he will likely win.

 

 

[Maltaran]

Doesn’t he live in Bermuda or the Bahamas or some Caribbean tax haven?

[Gorn]

18 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Oh, will nobody think of John Cleese. Poor lamb seems very upset that old white men can't say the N word on telly anymore.

Whatever you think of Cleese, whatever you do, don't say he's no longer funny. 'Cos the racist old cunt will probably sue you. And because this is Britain, he will likely win.

 

 

Ironically, Cleese and the rest of the Monty Pythons really did experience actual "cancelling" back in their day, except it came from the right wing. Life of Brian was banned by multiple countries and local communities.

[mormont]

It's the season for formerly-radical-old-man hypocrisy, clearly: Simon Callow is complaining about Stonewall being 'militant' about trans rights. 

[Heartofice]

What’s this in reference to? Is it the show he is presenting about cancel culture?

[Spockydog]

Yeah. He did a program about what he calls 'wokeism', and how much he hates it. 

I mean, to be woke, no matter what the likes of Cleese, or Piers Morgan, or Tucker Carlson would have the more gullible and intellectually-challenged amongst us believe, is to be anti-racist.

So if someone doesn't like that, and goes on to make a TV show about how much they don't like that, I have no doubt what that makes that person.

*cue bamboozled or laughing emoji*

[Heartofice]

Yeah well clearly we are gonna disagree here but to think that the description of ‘woke’ is as simple as being  ‘anti racist’ ( and therefore also not being woke as being racist) is maybe one of the reasons why there won’t be agreement here.

[Spockydog]

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Yeah well clearly we are gonna disagree here but to think that the description of ‘woke’ is as simple as being  ‘anti racist’ ( and therefore also not being woke as being racist) is maybe one of the reasons why there won’t be agreement here.

Well, no. I believe the term, these days, means anti discrimination, in any form whatsoever. But when the phrase was coined, it was specifically meant as anti-racist. But you know all that. 

And seeing as Cleese was complaining about not being able to say the N word on national television anymore, I'm pretty sure which angle he is approaching the debate from.

You can pretend otherwise all you like, perhaps try and assign some Gammony, statue-preserving nobility to Cleese's stance, but he is a fucking old racist, and everybody knows it. 

[Spockydog]

In other news, the chief of the Co op supermarket has said today that food shortages are the worst he's ever seen. 

He says the cause is Brexit. 

And if anyone doubts that is the case, perhaps support it with links detailing all the food shortages currently being experienced in the EU. 

 

 

[Werthead]

5 hours ago, Spockydog said:

The Managing Director of Iceland said today that Brexit is definitely a factor in their driver shortage.

I'm sure someone will be along momentarily to tell everyone that they know more about the logistics of running a major supermarket chain than the guy who actually runs a major supermarket chain.

Ha, fair enough. The reports I was reading a few weeks ago on it put it much more down on the DVLA bottleneck, but it looks like the Brexit issues are much more prevalent than first indicated.

So we have 1) (some) empty shelves in the supermarkets, 2) continued unrest due to the Northern Irish border and 3) the potential for Scottish independence. Any more for the bingo card?

[Hereward]

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

Well, no. I believe the term, these days, means anti discrimination, in any form whatsoever. But when the phrase was coined, it was specifically meant as anti-racist. But you know all that. 

And seeing as Cleese was complaining about not being able to say the N word on national television anymore, I'm pretty sure which angle he is approaching the debate from.

You can pretend otherwise all you like, perhaps try and assign some Gammony, statue-preserving nobility to Cleese's stance, but he is a fucking old racist, and everybody knows it. 

No, I don’t think everyone knows it, and nor do I think he ever said that word on TV. Complaining about a character saying a word in what is clearly a pillorying of the character is the same as people complaining about Warren Mitchell as Alf Garnett, or Al Murray as The Pub Landlord. These are attempts at satirising the views expressed, not advocating for them.
 

Watching the episode is difficult from a modern perspective, but this was in different times, when programmes like Love Thy Neighbour did so with the black person as the butt of the joke. This wasn’t that and intent must surely be taken into consideration. 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

In other news, the chief of the Co op supermarket has said today that food shortages are the worst he's ever seen. 

He says the cause is Brexit. 

And if anyone doubts that is the case, perhaps support it with links detailing all the food shortages currently being experienced in the EU. 

 

 

Can you give a short list of the sorts of supermarket shortages are being experienced, and whether this is across Britain as  a whole or particular spots, and is London as affected as other places?

We don't have BREXIT per se, but we have many import conditions still in place due to embargoes, tariffs, breaking of trade agreements, and so on by shoggoth the former guy who got elected out.  But with the climate change wildfires, drought and flooding, I think ultimately for us, when it comes to food, because the regions hit the hardest such as the Midwest that provides almost all our grains and cereals, our problems will be that we can't supply ourselves, and won't then have the 'surplus' of such foundational crops for dairy and meat such as alfalfa to China and Saudi (got to keep those horses at top quality!).

Then there are the many other shortages for all sorts of technical, mechanical and electrical parts and products, particularly, at the moment for automobiles -- and sofas, and other kinds of furniture.

 

[Hereward]

The situation is not really comparable. The US produces far more food than it consumes. The UK doesn’t, and hasn’t for centuries. Dicking about with food security, in the belief that imports will always be freely and quickly available, is another reason Brexit was a horrible idea.

[williamjm]

6 hours ago, dog-days said:

On the one hand, Conservatives are traditionally very unionist. On the other hand, getting rid of Scotland could help secure another generation of Tory governments...

Even if they did think there was some tactical advantage I don't think any Conservative PM is going to want to be the one to go down in history as the one who caused the breakup of the country.

[Spockydog]

40 minutes ago, Hereward said:

No, I don’t think everyone knows it, and nor do I think he ever said that word on TV. Complaining about a character saying a word in what is clearly a pillorying of the character is the same as people complaining about Warren Mitchell as Alf Garnett, or Al Murray as The Pub Landlord. These are attempts at satirising the views expressed, not advocating for them.
 

Watching the episode is difficult from a modern perspective, but this was in different times, when programmes like Love Thy Neighbour did so with the black person as the butt of the joke. This wasn’t that and intent must surely be taken into consideration. 

Nobody is advocating for re-runs of Love Thy Neighbour or Mind Your Language. People recognise that shit as deeply offensive, with no place on modern TV screens.

It's a shame Cleese doesn’t share the same view with regards to his own offensive 70s output. He wrote a scene in Fawlty Towers where The Major goes on a vile racist rant, using the N word four times. 

Cleese disputes this word's offensiveness, calling it 'a nonsense word' and doesn't see why modern audiences shouldn't be subjected to it. 

Seriously, fuck that guy. 

[Spockydog]

1 minute ago, Spockydog said: